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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:57:13 PM EDT
[#1]
No, it’s not. With most common calibers you can buy the ammo for about what it costs to reload.
But if you love shooting something like .45 Colt, .41 Magnum, 10mm, or some other rarer caliber then reloading is essential. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:01:02 PM EDT
[#2]
I was thinking about getting into .223 reload, but I am not for the same reason you pointed out.
Many people do it out of hobby and to get into the shop/ garage, that's what I was thinking. Calming, soothing, relaxing for a bit..seeing a finished product. I still may do it. But when I am in a mode like that I always, 1st and foremost, have a good cigar to help ease life....I think that could cause a problem, smoking a cigar and reloading...Especially because I always let the ash fall on it's own. Just a little flare up... 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:01:44 PM EDT
[#3]
The more you shoot, the more reloading will pay off. If you do it casually, buy commercial.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:07:15 PM EDT
[#4]
It always amazes me that people think that plinking rounds are so expensive to reload. They must not be using the same math as me.
It sounds like you already have a press. Assuming that you already have brass as well, here is the cost: AA2230C from Powdervalley: $69/8lbs: About $30/k loaded. Pulled Bullets from Pats: $29/k Winchester SM Rfile primers from Powdervalley: $15/k Total per k for plinking (not including shipping and hazmat): $74/k. That is $.074/round. Shipping and hazmat can be combined on the primers/powder. You can get 32lbs of AA2230C and 15k primers in one shipment so figure $40 for shipping/hazmat on that whole order. If you don't have brass, figure another $30/k from GI-Brass. But you can reload that 4-6 times. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:07:25 PM EDT
[#5]
if you're talking about bump firing- no, but if you want to practice shooting accurately, you can reload decent loads that shoot more like the good stuff for much cheaper than the good stuff costs
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:12:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Reloading requires your full attention. I have reloaded a considerable amount of 223. If you can keep reusing the brass your cost come down. The initial cost of the reloading equip is your 1st hurdle along with components and powder. I got into reloading when I 1st started shooting because money was tight. I was able to turn out decent 223, 9mm,38 and 45.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:15:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Do you guys factor in the cost/value of your time when you do reloading "breakeven" calcs?
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:16:07 PM EDT
[#8]
You need to buy in bulk to get the cost per round down. Contrary to what others have said, the recent increase in .223/5.56 has made it economical to reload blasting ammo.
I have plenty of brass. I don't need to buy any. I have had my press for years and it has paid for itself over and over. There is no cheap quality blasting ammo to be found today. The cheapest right now that I am aware of is Remington .223 from Walmart. That is $.20/round. I can reload for less than half that. Cheapest: XM193 - $237.10/k ($.2371/round) Wolf M193 - $221.40/k ($.2141/round) Q3131 - $238.45/k ($.2385/round) Q3131A - None Federal AE223 - $205.81/k ($.2058/round) Wolf - $142.12/k ($.1421/round) Black Hills - $264.95.10/k ($.2650/round) Remington 223 from Wallyworld - $3.98/20 ($.1990/round) + tax Source: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=222888 |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:17:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Why would I? I don't figure the time/cost when I watch TV or surf ARFCOM or fish or play with my son or spend time with my wife. What does it cost you to go shooting? |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:18:52 PM EDT
[#10]
I always figured valuepacks of WWB was cheaper than a comparable round I could reload myself. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:25:25 PM EDT
[#11]
They are pulled M193 bullets. They are almost identical to Q3131a, Q3131, XM193, WWB, etc. They are 55gr FMJBT. For 9mm I use Remington. For .45ACP, I use Remington and Montana Gold. 9mm is about $3.50 per box of 50. .45ACP is about $4.50 per box of 50. I could get it cheaper if I used lead, but I only load copper jacket. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:26:05 PM EDT
[#12]
It might not be worth your while financially to reload plinking ammo, but you can do it anyway because it is a fun hobby.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:27:03 PM EDT
[#13]
If you shoot more than a few thousand rounds every year:
Reloading makes good sense If you want top shelf ammo without paying out the arse for it: Reloading makes good sense If you love to tinker and have a meticulous personality: Reloading is FUN. I have almost as much fun dinking with different loads as I do shooting them. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:27:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Still tho, it requires a huge investment up front for all the hardware and supplies, and well as time and ambition. For now I'm sticking with the WWB 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:30:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Save your brass for me. I love the Winchester brass. I'll be happy to pay a few bucks for it and shipping. IM me and we can discuss. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:34:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Define worth.
To even consider makeing it a saveing proposition you have to hustle around and buy "stuff" in large ammounts,and when on sale. This isn't real difficult with the internet,extra savings are to be had if you can hitch up with some other reloading nut and buy in bigger ammounts,ship by truck ect. There is a great amount of satisfaction to have some components set aside and haveing the equipment and knowledge to make a pile of ammo if prices and supply keep going like they have been. That being said I confine my rifle reloading to accuracy and special purpose ammo,and spend most of my reloading hours doing pistol ammo. I can hardly bring myself to pay the price for 38,.357,45acp,44 spec and 44mag (except for the odd box of factory stuff for carry and practise for carry) I am set to reload all the calibers I shoot but generally don't see the point to reload with 9mm,.380acp ,30 carbine, or 5.56 If I spend a couple evenings a month and load a batch each of 45/70,44mag,38super I save far more than if I reloaded all the 5.56 blasting ammo I shoot. It's shooting for crying out loud,working out what it really costs you is only going to give you a migrane |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:39:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Link please. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:44:44 PM EDT
[#18]
No shit. IM please.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:51:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, we don't have cable or get any TV reception precisely because of what I'm getting at: my time is better spent elsewhere. In economics it's "opportunity cost". Like, you have enough time for something but it cost you in the sense that you couldn't do something else instead. I only have so much time and I have more than enough things I'd like to do with what little of it is free. I'd only spend some of it reloading if I could save enough money for it to be "worth it". I surf ARFCOM from work. Time with my wife I generally consider as well spent. Time spent shooting is worth it to me because it’s fun and I increase my proficiency. But then take having a tree planted when we do landscaping for example. Sure, I could work the shovel and plant it myself but depending on what it costs to have some guys show up and do it for money it might not be worth my time. Reloading sounds more like digging a hole to plant a tree than hanging out with my wife or going shooting. It sounds more like work and would only be worth it to me if I could save enough money. That's all I was getting at. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:52:00 PM EDT
[#20]
it's sold out now, Wideners used to have IMI .223, which I bought 2k of for 352 shipped. Guess my luck ran out though...
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Posted: 3/22/2006 2:55:36 PM EDT
[#21]
I posted this in the reloading forum, so I'll post it here too.
For me it is worth it. Here are my figures for .223 plinking ammo. Bullet: M193 55gr Pulled and Resized from Hi-Tech Ammo 3000 for $85.04 (includes shipping, no tax - out of state) Powder: Accurate 2230C from Powder Valley (Falarak and I are spliting it 3 kegs each) 6 - 8# kegs @69.00 (plus 38.95 for shipping, hazmat, and insurance) = 452.95 452.95 / 6 = $75.49 per 8# keg Primer: CCI #400 from Sportsmans Warehouse 1000 for 16.99 (-5% discount or .84) = 16.15 + tax = $17.48 Brass: Free (have 8k LC 05 waiting to be loaded) = $0.00 According to this calculator, when I plug in all the above figures with a 25.8g - 26g charge I come up with: Per round = $0.081 Per 50 = $4.03 Per 1000 = $80.60 $80 is way cheaper than I can buy any place. Now as others have stated, I do not include my time in the equation because it is a hobby and I enjoy sitting down and putting my Dillon 650 to work. Nick |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:07:56 PM EDT
[#22]
I have a Springfield 1911-A1 Loaded that has never tasted Factory ammo. I use range brass, lead bullets, and 8Lb jug of Bullseye that I bought years ago. I usually crank out a 50Cal ammo can worth at a time. I Don't even bother to count them. I have a Hornady Lock -N- Load Auto Progressive that I found, used, at a gunshow for $100. It's a great machine and although it was missing several parts when I got it, Hornady was more than happy to send them out to me free of charge.
I load 30-06, .308, .223, 44Mag, 357Mag, 45Auto, and a few .243 ammo on it without any issues. Great machine and I got a great deal on it. Try reloading and you'll like it......Watch out for the blue koolaid however, as all the internet reloaders use big blue , bur the horn LNLAP is cheaper and actually works better (I really like the powder throw better on the LNLAP).Echap |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:21:02 PM EDT
[#23]
you cant reload 223 for as cheap as you can get wolf at a gun show. Hand gun ammo, now thats something different all together.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:23:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Reloading is way cheaper!
Cases: $25 per K Powder: $16 per lb. Primer: $21 per K Bullet: $35 per K Less than $140 per thousand. That even if you never pick up your brass. Reload the stuff 5 times and you're down to under $120 per K. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:32:55 PM EDT
[#25]
I’m pretty much in the “no” category.
I enjoy reloading when trying to work up a particular load for whatever reason. I don’t mind it when cobbling together some otherwise fairly pricey round such as .44 Magnum or 7MM Mauser. (And I absolutely do need to get the dies and start reloading 7.5 Swiss!) But cranking out something like 9MM’s for general blasting is just boring. Granted, if I shot really large quantities of it, the financial savings might make it worthwhile. As it is, I’ll pay a bit extra and just get from W-W. The less time I spend reloading, the more time I have to shoot! |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:41:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I plink with 45 acp, 44-40, 30-30, and 45-70. I reload target ammo for 223, but all other ammo is a far cheeper to reload than new.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:45:50 PM EDT
[#27]
It's a decision that shouldn't be based solely on economics. It is a fulfilling and fun extension of the shooting sport. I enjoy rolling 'em as much as I enjoy shooting 'em. I don't even bother to calculate the price per round, it doesn't matter to me because I would do it even if it cost me more.
The ability to tune the ammunition to the rifle and the pride of cranking out very accurate high quality ammo is plenty for me. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:24:58 PM EDT
[#28]
I bought a Lee Pro 1000 set-up last fall to load plinking ammo in .223, .30 carbine, and .45 ACP. I've reloaded a little over 3000 rounds in about six months and I'm past the break even point. My total up-front investment was about $450 for everything.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:30:49 PM EDT
[#29]
No it is not. Now send me all of your .45 brass.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:52:58 PM EDT
[#30]
powder i use to reload is easily 2-3X cleaner than the WWB crap.
i buy 9mm WWB because i do not have enough brass to do reloads(just yet) and my sig 220 in 45 is far easier to clean compared to my sig 226 in 9mm useing the WWB. that alone is worth it to me, as i am very anal about keeping my weapon clean. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:56:05 PM EDT
[#31]
absolutely yes.
you are not looking in the right places for supplies. i reload 55gr blasting ammo for around 75.00 per 1000. pulled tips and surplus powder. similar ammo would run you 140.00 + per case and would not be as consistant. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:07:58 PM EDT
[#32]
...one other thing to consider...
Prices are never going to be cheaper than they are today. Not Ever. I have all of the stuff to reload .223 plinker ammo. I have been buying win 55fmjbt's, BL-c(2) and CCI Small Rifle Primers whenever I can catch a deal. I pick up every serviceable piece of .223 brass I see. It all get's socked away, stacked up in ammo cans for now. In a few years when Wolf is $350 per k, and Winchester dosen't make WWB 55grn anymore, so it's $500 per case at the gunshows, thats when I will reload my plinking ammo, and all of the backaches from picking up all that brass will be worth it.... |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:10:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Try buying factory ammo for a .310 Martini Cadet. BTW, the money issue depends on what you can get the components for. bullet .04 powder .04 primer .02 Brass free dime a round. I put a thread like this a while back on the competitive forum. BHA 68s (on a one-time closeout sale) were about the same as 68 grain reloads. For a while, it was cheaper for me to shoot BHA match. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:14:39 PM EDT
[#34]
No. I'm a graduate student. I have more time than money. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:17:18 PM EDT
[#35]
Don't bother reloading 223. Milsurp ammo is very cheap and very high quality. You will shoot MOA with USGI stuff.
Most guys here will dump in their pants when they read this, BUT I would avoid reloading for an autoloader when you can buy factory ammo so friggin cheap US military autoloaders are very strong guns, but they blast apart in your hands if you get a slamfire or out-of-battery fire due to high primer, etc. autoloaders are very sensitive to ammo dimensions, and reloads are often slightly out of spec you can get a case gauge that checks the overall dimensions of your loaded ammo, i would say just get cheap US milsurp ammo and be done with it. bolt guns are totally forgiving to reloads, they will actually resize a bad load for you. that's why everyone gets so overly casual about things I'm a die hard reloader btw |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:54:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Reloading (for plinking) any caliber that Wolf makes is a losing proposition. And reloading .223 or 9mm is even worse, considering the availability of cheap factory ammo. Even if you can justify the materials, reloading large quantities of ammo takes a considerable amount of time (to do safely and correctly). And that's assuming you own a high-quality progressive press (at least a Dillion 550).
Reloading really only becomes worth doing if you are loading higher-end bullets, making your own accuracy loads, or if you are loading for a non-military/LEO caliber. If any of these apply, you can save considerable amounts of money and also have better ammo. Ironically, most folks shoot far fewer of this ammo than common military calibers like 9mm or .223. -Troy |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:01:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Link please. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 1:12:36 AM EDT
[#38]
That's my problem , I can't find cheap ammo anymore that isn't corroded or is unreliable in some weapons. *Cough* guatemalan and privi partisan *cough* |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 6:39:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Even the Guatemalan is over $.20 per round. I can reload them for less than 1/2 that. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 6:42:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Troy, If I save over $100/k. How is that not worth it? I reload on Mondays. My choices are watch a DVRed Desperate Houswives and The Bachelor with my wife or reload. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 6:53:32 AM EDT
[#41]
My time is priceless. When I'm cutting the grass or painting the trim and a smartass neighbor says, "When you're finished there come on over" I let them know they can't afford my rates. I do many of my operations, trimming, priming, deprimming, etc. while watching the news or a college game. I especially like to trim my brass while the wife is watching a chick flick. How valuable is your time while you're being forced to watch "You've Got Mail"? The others I do with no distractions in the garage. Although I got into reloading via my Glock 20, I added other pistol calibers as well. I load Gold Dots and plinking ammo. Even the 9mm can be reloaded for around half price. I'm about to add .223 to my repetoire and .308 down the road. In addition to saving money reloading, even plinking ammo, is an opportunity to learn and gives you the ability to overcome possible interruptions of ammo in the future. If you can cover your variable costs- powder, primers, bullets, any savings go toward recapturing your fixed costs- press, dies, etc. So the more you reload, even plinking ammo, the sooner your savings will pay for your equipment. If you're a neonatal neurosurgeon, the above is bullshit. For most of us it applies. ETA:
Although this doesn't apply to bachelors, for the rest of us the logic is inescapable. On pure literary merit I agree. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 6:54:05 AM EDT
[#42]
Unless the options are reload vs go work for pay, your labor has no value.
It is still cheaper to reload the stuff. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 6:58:47 AM EDT
[#43]
I find rifle case prep to be the biggest time consumer. Tumbling, gaging, measuring, trimming, deburring, cleaning primer pockets, lubing and cleaning.  The other time eater is measuring and weighing each powder charge. Component cost is the least of my worries. It's the opprotunity cost involved with the physical process that gets expensive. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 11:04:37 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 3/23/2006 8:01:57 PM EDT
[#45]
It is a good skill to have and it is worthwhile to get the equipment and supplies to reload now while you can. Eventually the Liberals will ban cheap ammo imports, then domestic ammo production, etc. If you still want ammo you will need to load your own.
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Posted: 3/24/2006 1:43:59 AM EDT
[#46]
Of course labor has value, everything has value. If you are stuck in the basement reloading instead of playing outside with your kids, your labor definitely has value. If you are stuck in the basement reloading while your wife is pissed upstairs that you don't spend any time with her, your labor definitely has value. If you are stuck in the basement reloading instead of doing something productive or educational, of course your labor has value. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 1:51:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Or, if you're in the basement by choice, doing something you enjoy, then your time has value - exactly the opposite of the kind your reloading is measured by. Reloading is fun for some of us, and cranking out our own plinking ammo isn't labor, it's a pastime. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 2:51:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Incidentally, who can comment on the accuracy of "pulled bullets"? I've only had one experience with them, and it wasn't a good one. Bought a ton of M855 from "Dans", they all had huge gouges in the slugs, and accuracy even at 100 yards was lousy. I imagine the process of pulling them and resizing isn't condusive to good accuracy? That's the biggest reason I only load match loads for the .223.
If I could reload the "plinker rounds" for under say, 10cents a rd, I might consider it. I'm tired of paying over 20 cents for XM193, and American Eagle's brass isn't good for reloading (FC cases). |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 3:58:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Billclo, get your pulled bullets from Pats. They will not be gougued.
Anyway, I started reloading after a bad Wolf round sent my AR back to Bushmaster for a $100 repair after the rear of the case blew out. I lucked out and got a dillon 550 NIB with 45acp dies for $150. How could I pass that up? Now I do a bunch of calibers. For 223, I get bullets and powder from Pats, and i get my brass done at RVOW. I get all the once fired brass I want from my local PD. |
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Posted: 3/24/2006 5:49:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Let's say you make $40 per hour. Do you play with your kids for 3 hours and then say "Damn, it cost me $120 to play with my kids." Do you calculate the amout of money it costs you to spend time with your wife watching Desperate Housewives? How much does that good 8 hours of sleep cost you? $320 every night??? No, of course not. Same with reloading. It is a hobby you spend time doing becuase you want to and not becuase you have to. Brickeye's point was unless you preempt work time for reloading, the time is not costing you any money. |
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