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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:48:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes, I've been wondering that too...
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:49:28 PM EDT
[#2]
In a word, EPA restrictions and tariffs.
The Toyota Hino diesel is set to be an option in the new Tundra in a year or so. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:49:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Toyota and Nissan have a bunch of efficient TurboDiesel engines for overseas markets (Europe, Australia).
But, with the emissions rules as they are, its real hard to get approvals for small/midsized trucks. Thats why the Diesel VW Tourag was sold for about a minute before being pulled. Hopefully a bunch of the emissions technologies that Audi just demonstrated will make it into production real quick. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Because diesel engines are the kiss of death for most US car buyers...
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:52:48 PM EDT
[#5]
IF, not WHEN it happens, I think It'll be the final nail in the coffin for the US truck industry.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:54:20 PM EDT
[#6]
they have but never in very large numbers. I have seen toyota trucks w/ diesels in the states before --usually lte 70's or early 80's vintage and an old (way old) datsun "patrol" with a diesel in it once (never seen that model or anything like it agian). kindof like a downsised land rover or an early Montego type vehicle. mostly becuase the demand was for small fuel efficent gas powered cars rather than trucks/jeeps /suvs and at the time americans associated diesel with big rigs and thought of it as smelly/dirty/oily rather than an efficent fuel altenative to gasoline
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:55:36 PM EDT
[#7]
I don't know about Toyota. But, I do know that BMW and Mercedes-Benz do not sell their diesel-engined sedans in the US because there is not a big demand for them. Maybe that will change in five years and they will import 3-series diesels and C-class diesels.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:56:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Toyotas focusing on hybrids, read somewhere a while back their goal is to sell 1,000,000 hybrids in year 2010, or 10% of it's overall sales.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:57:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Good question.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 12:59:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Are you talking about the R10? You should have heard that thing. Oh wait, you couldn't hear it, it was so damn quiet. 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:00:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Because our diesel is sooty nasty sulfery dirty and noisy, unlike what is offered in europe.
I have read that the EPA is gonna mandate some changed in the next year or so, bringing euro quality diesel to the US. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:03:53 PM EDT
[#12]
I'd think something like a turbodiesel X-terra getting 26-28 mpg would do well. Especially given Nissan's experience with CVT transmissions.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:04:46 PM EDT
[#13]
2007 is the year the EPA has mandated the "NEW" diesel be out with 97% lower sulfer content etc. From what i have heard older diesel engines will have to be monitored for fuel leaks when the new fuel hits the market. also in the 2007 model year diesels will start having cats on the exhaust and more emmissions equipment to come.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:08:00 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd like to see them. Toyota has some really neat marine applications for their diesels.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:09:49 PM EDT
[#15]
VW has sold a lot of jettas with diesels. Seem to remember something about they sold every one they made.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:12:17 PM EDT
[#16]
All I want is a Toyota Tacoma 4dr, 4wd with a turbo diesel that gets 25-30mpg and is reliable.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:18:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Local Jeep dealer has a Liberty diesel on the lot,its been there for the last 3 months ON SALE,with all the options,$23k,that diesel engine began life as power for irigation pumps,very hard duty.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:20:26 PM EDT
[#18]
If you need to blame anyone its the BIG THREE. During the late 70s the did bring diesel cars out for the public. But a few things were amiss. Most of the cars were conversions and not built from the ground up as diesels. So the gas mileage, reliability, durability were not there. Also they were dirty, smelled bad and did I mention not reliable? They were also slow and required lots of maintance.
That killed the American consumers appetite for diesels. Second the EPA standards were unrealistic and made diesels expensive. BMW, VW, and Mercedes have very nice diesel vehicles but Americans will not buy them or drive them. My GF in college had a diesel FORD. It had a diesel 4 cylinder tractor engine right from a John Deere tractor. It didnt like the normal driving of a gas car. It would throw a belt every chance it could. Also the mileage would vary constantly. You had to wait until the glow plug was ready and in really cold weather the fucker wouldnt start at all. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:40:23 PM EDT
[#19]
The bottom line is emissions. 3/4 ton and up trucks can have them because the emissions standards are relaxed, purposfully because of the need.
It has nothing to do with the American consumer's distaste from the failure of the GM/Olds 350. VW's TDI has sold very well despite the price premium over the most powerful engine. The modern diesel engines from Toyota, Daimler, BMW, VW, Audi, etc. cannot be imported because of the requirement for low sulfur diesel. Only 10 years ago, road #2 diesel had up to 500 ppm (parts per million) sulfur. This was reduced in stages and by next year, all road diesel will have under 50 ppm sulfur, allowing almost any foriegn diesel to be imported. Diesels run on excess air, unlike a gasoline engine. This excess air allows the sulfur to be oxidized in a three-way catalyst to sulfur trioxide which combines with the produced water vapor to form sulfuric acid. This "washes" the catalyst from the converter, rendering it useless. This cannot happen in a gasoline engine because they run on a fixed air-fuel ratio which produces NOx, CO and HC. In the three way catalyst, the NOx is reduced to N2 and O2, the latter of which oxidizes the CO to CO2 and the HC to CO2 and H2O. This is controlled automatically by the application of pre and post oxygen level sensors, one before the catalyst and one immediately after. The sulfur problem wasn't the first. BMW's 4 liter V8 of the early to mid 1990s had a problem and it was a gasoline engine. It used an aluminum block with nickel-plated cylinder walls. BMW nearly bought all on the road here in the states. Remember, the emissions system must be trouble free for the first 100,000 miles. With 250 ppm sulfur diesel, no manufacturer would warrant their system for that duration. Or could warrant. In other words, hold on. We will see diesels in nearly all vehicles next year. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 3:07:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Not even, the 'yota diesel won't compete in the HP/ Torque wars beteween the big three. you're getting stock engines now that have more power than the hopped up ones did 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:31:06 PM EDT
[#21]
They're already here. Toyota's Hino truck division offers around half a dozen diesels in their Class 3+ trucks, ranging from small fours to big sixes. Ditto for Nissan Diesel, Mitsubishi-Fuso and Isuzu. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:41:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Mercedes quit importing Diesels in 2000 due to emissions regulations. They brought out a new turbo diesel about 2 years ago, its an inline 6 that is sold in most states. They sell every one they bring over, its very rare to have one in stock at my dealer. That engine is already being replaced with a new v6 turbo diesel. All the records previously set by the last diesel are being shattered again by this one. I don't know when its being released for public consumption. The main reason we don't get more diesels from other countries is our fuel. Its terrible compared with european blends. The latest generation of diesels has proven to be extremely powerful, efficient, and even quiet. They operate with precision, high pressures, close tolerances. It doesn't take much in the way of bad fuel to screw things up. I have seen very little go wrong with the inline 6, I am hoping the V6 proves every bit as durable. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:03:33 PM EDT
[#23]
My friends mom had an Oldsmobile something or other, it had a gas powered converted V8 in it. We used to call it "Smokescreen". You didn't need a speedometer to know how fast you were going, if you could see out the back window you were going fast enough. I few SoCal hotrodders used those cars for engine swaps, no emission control on them. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:05:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Gomer, get a clue. When talking Toyota diesels, economy is a major factor. And if you want to talk HP and economy, well then Hino (Toyota) still comes out on top. If you want to talk about noise and black smoke.....Ohhhhh cummins baby.  I don't post much, I lurk alot. But, there's nothing worse than a internet tard posting B.S. about shit that he knows nothing about. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#25]
Yet when you do post you insult? Nice. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:17:43 PM EDT
[#26]
The more of you people who buy diesels, the more gasoline for me, me, me....
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:26:50 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't know why diesels aren't imported. My friend in college had an Izuzu I-Mark diesel. Don't know what year the car was, but I loved that little sucker because it got about 48 miles to the gallon. Kind of silly looking, but he ran for two weeks on a tank and back then it only cost about $11.00 to fill it up.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:27:01 PM EDT
[#28]
The Diesel wars will begin soon enough!!!!
What I want to see is a Diesel Hybrid  BTW I never considered buying a diesel guy...HOWEVER after the Rita (non-event  ) evac I noticed that the only petro on the roads was diesel. I can only imagine that this will be the case in future situations.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:27:33 PM EDT
[#29]
General Motors to bring range of diesels to U.S.?
Found this one through the TDI forums:
It's baaaaaack. Same guy that posted this link said he talked to the stealership and they said yes it's coming, but didn't know which engine. Could be the 225hp V6. I'd rather see that than the V10, but we'll see. I've read about Mercedes and BMW possibly brining some diesels over too, in addition to the current E-class. I'd find more info, but I need to get back to work. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:39:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Toyota did bring a diesel to the US early to mid 80s. The electrician that worked on my house had a 4x4 Toyota pickup it was a 4 cylinder non turbo. He seemed to like it. But Toyota dropped that model. Most likely poor sales or emissions issues.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:35:04 PM EDT
[#31]
I've been driving and working on diesel powered vehicles for 33 years and know more than a little about them. As power and torque has gone up so has fuel economy. In big rigs the new high HP motors are also getting mileage you could only dream of 25 years ago. Most diesel owners are looking for both economy and power. Take your Fugly Hino and get over in the right lane cause I'm coming by, either in my CTD or my Cat powered Pete. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 7:53:25 PM EDT
[#32]
It the FUEL. Which hinges on our aging refineries which had to switch to low sulfur by next year (2007). The sulfur limit currently is 250 ppm is most locations with 100 ppm in some areas. This will go to 50 ppm next year.
Sulfur is a benefit to older distributor injector pumps and some older cam driven unit injectors as it add lubricity (diesel injectors are typically 12,000+ PSI with some as high as 28,000 PSI, lubrication MATTERS). But sulfur prevents catalytic aftertreatment and makes soot control difficult with technologies like exhaust gas recirculation expensive as you deal with necessary heat exchangers and the corrosive nature of the sulfur laden exhaust. Eliminating the sulfur in diesel allows these engines to meet emissions but it adds to the cost of the fuel due to the new processes needed at the refinery. Sulfur in diesel is by no means "dirt", it is just an artifact in the supply system as foreign markets like Japan and Europe have traditionally had lower sulfur crude feedstock (sweet crude) where domestic refineries are traditionally capable of using WTI (West Texas Intermediate) which is somewhat "sour". Some refineries even handle really sour crude as it is regionally available at lower prices. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 7:54:54 PM EDT
[#33]
+1 |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:01:37 PM EDT
[#34]
From a Google search on Toyota Diesels, numbers from Toyota UK. (Imperial Gallons)
Toyota UK Diesel Models - fuel consumption and Co2 emissions figures _______________________________MPG - Urban ____MPG - Extra Urban__ MPG - Combined RAV 4x4 3 & 5DR D-4D 5 speed Man. _________ 31.7________46.3________39.8 Previa 5 DR 2.0 D-4D 5 speed Man. ___________31.4________46.3________39.2 Land Cruiser Colorada 3.0 D-4D 5-speed Man x2__24.1________34.4________29.7 Land Cruiser Colorada 3.0 D-4D 4-speed Auto. x2__22.1________31.4 ________27.2 Land Cruiser Amazon 4.2TD 5-speed Man. x2 ____20.0 ________30.4________25.4 Land Cruiser Amazon 4.2TD 5-speed Auto. x2 ____17.9________26.2________22.4 |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:04:42 PM EDT
[#35]
And not only do they seriously need the lubrication, but if they don't get it and they fail.. they aint cheap either! Anyway, if lubricity is lost, it would be really easy to replace- biodiesel. Small percentages make a huge difference. Something like one or two percent would make a huge difference. Of course, adding 2% to all diesel fuel would probably use all of the current biodiesel production capacity. But it would replace that lubricity, and probably further clean up the emissions and increase mileage. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:08:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Is that in miles per Imperial gallon? 1 Imperial Gallon = 1.2 US Gallons, so you'd get more miles per. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:15:33 PM EDT
[#37]
Diesel is about the same cost as gas, for the fuel - so consumer inerest is lees now than when diesel was cheaper.
Emissions are somewhat of an issue. Not that the standards can't be met. But the cost to "certify" a vehicle as meeting emmisions is high. Low unit sales mean a high cost per unit for diesels. The real killer, is that consumer demand in the US is low. VW TDI Diesel, the only diesel that really has any sales, is selling a miniscule amount compared to VW's gas engined vehicles. Europe has a lot of diesel vehicles. But there are tax incentives to having small displacement diesels in Europe. I would bet if diesel fuel was cheaper than gas, like it used to be, demand would begin to go up. But consumers still seem to like gas engines, in cars anyway, better than diesel. So demand might be difficult to change, even if diesel fuel costs went down. I'm not sure I would want a diesel car, if there was an equivelant gas car available. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:22:44 PM EDT
[#38]
I'd like to have a diesel-powered car, just because I am a truck driver, and the company sometimes shorts my paycheck, and.........
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:23:09 PM EDT
[#39]
Bull. All dealers sell their allocation of TDIs without ANY discounts. Performance isn't the issue either.. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:34:33 PM EDT
[#40]
A friend of mine has a couple mitsubishi diesel pickups from the late 80s they are gutless but the low end isnt to bad.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:41:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Even though VW is only one of two automakers (along with Mercedes-Benz) currently offering diesel passenger cars in the U.S. market, TDI acceptance provides plenty of room for increasing diesel market share. The U.S.-spec “45-state” 1.9-liter TDI-PD (“Pumpe Duse”) engine offered in the Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle in most states represents 10 percent of the 320,000 VWs sold in the U.S. This is a highly loyal, dedicated owner base – many have multiple diesel VWs in their household. More TDI converts are likely with VW’s recent introduction of the 2.0-liter TDI Passat and 4.9-liter V-10 TDI powered Touareg luxury SUV to the American market. Considering that VW advertising campaigns in this country traditionally do not even mention the TDI, there’s certainly plenty of room for growth. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What they are saying is out of the hundreds of thousands of passenger vehicles sold in the US annually, 32,000 are diesels. The TDI VW's are good performers. BUT the performance costs more to buy than a similar performing gas powered vehicle. For those that like diesels, that's not a big deal. For those that are looking simply at the sticker price, it is. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:42:48 PM EDT
[#42]
VW TDI's have similar performance to their 4 cyl. gas powered cars. It's not like the old VW diesel Rabbits which were dogs. And there isn't a lot of competition in this nitch market. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:46:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Overall, diesels are cleaner buring than gasoline engine, less green house gases. They may look nasty, but in the end most are cleaner. EPA really put their boot up the asses of diesel manufacturers a few years ago. They found that ECU computers were creating cleaner buring engines in the range of operation that was demonstrated during testing, but when you put that same engine on the road and stepped on the gas, the ECU gave an different operating parameters to the engine and in turn created more power and more emissions. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:59:34 PM EDT
[#44]
VW stealerships can't keep the TDIs on the lots. If they doubled the number of diesels they were importing, I'm pretty sure they would still sell in as little or less time than the rest of their cars.
Consumers like gas engines because that's all they know. Put the average American in a modern diesel, and I'd be surprised if they even notice. In fact I remember reading an article from an automotive journalist where he test-drove a PT Cruiser and didn't realize for quite a while that he was driving a diesel. I think a lot of Americans would prefer diesel for their torque. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#45]
I had a customer at the repair shop I worked at that drove a diesel Chevette. I hated diesels for a long time after that. I think Chevy single handedly made Diesel a bad word here in the US....the rotten 6.2, the 5,7, etc. Trash engines with no guts, noisy, and for a long time mechanics joked that "diesel" was German for "Double", because repairs cost twice as much.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:16:24 PM EDT
[#46]
This might be true in temperate climates, but they'd know for sure in the colder areas of the US. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:28:25 PM EDT
[#47]
I thought I remembered as a kid diesel being cheaper,but up here it's quite a bit more expensive.
Last I noticed a gallon of diesel was $2.80+ compared to $2.30+ for a gallon of regualr unleaded. WTF's that all about? I'd love to be able to get a bare bones small pickup with a large V-6 towing capacity and 30+ miles to the gallon....but the extra charge usually involved in getting into a diesel and the added expense of the fuel itself pretty much makes it pointless. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:31:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Friend of mines wife drives one a those diesel Jettas,I never knew it till they mentioned it.Quick and powerfull,didn't sound like shit like I remember diesels sounding...no smoke screen  I was pretty impressed. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:33:20 PM EDT
[#49]
When I bought my TDI three and a half years ago, the sticker price was I think $1000 over that of the base model gasoline engine. I got a car that is more enjoyable to drive because of the the low rpm grunt, and have saved over $2000(using current prices, thus ignoring the nearly three years of diesel being cheaper than gas). And the VW diesel being sold here is also outdated and doesn't measure up to pretty much any diesels offered in Europe. How about an Accord with 140hp and 250lb-ft(@2000rpm) that gets 43mpg combined cty/hwy? A Focus with 136hp, 236lb-ft(@2000rpm) and gets 42mpg? Or a 3-series BMW with 204hp, 302lb-ft(@1500rpm) that gets 36mpg combined. The 535d perhaps? A V6 with 235hp, 400lb-ft, that gets 28mpg (again, combined cty/hwy) in a Mercedes S-Class. Put that in something the size of a C-class, perhaps the ML-class, and you've got a winner. I guess diesels are getting a little more sophisticated, but they are still fairly simple when it comes to mods if you want more power. Just add fuel. If things start to get hot, add boost. And unlike most gassers, they should still get great mileage if you drive normal, only taking a hit when you drive harder. Yes, I have lots of koolaid, and I'm more than willing to share! |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:37:23 PM EDT
[#50]
I bet they would notice when it needed maint. which seems to be about 30%? more than a gas engine. add to that 50 cents more per gallon for fuel. (in oregon anyway) |
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