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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Oh s%^* - look what just hit the press

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:28:34 PM EDT

news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article352819.ece

US troops investigated over Iraqi massacres
By Patrick Cockburn in Arbil
Published: 22 March 2006

The US military is investigating two incidents in which American soldiers killed at least 26 Iraqi civilians and then claimed that they were either guerrillas or had died in cross fire.

The growing evidence of retaliatory killings of unarmed Iraqi families, often including children, by US soldiers seemingly bent on punishing Iraqis after an attack, will spark comparisons with the massacre of Vietnamese villagers at My Lai in 1968.

US troops have been notorious among Iraqis for their willingness to shoot any Iraqi they see in the aftermath of an insurgent attack. But it is only now that convincing and detailed information is becoming available about the killings.

In the most recent incident, in the town of Ishaqi north of Baghdad last week, Iraqi police said that US troops had shot 11 people, including five children, in their home. The local police chief, Colonel Farouq Hussein, said that all the dead had been shot in the head, according to autopsies. "It's a clear and perfect crime," he said. In an incident in the town of Haditha in western Iraq on 19 November last year, US soldiers went on a rampage in a village after a bomb attack and killed at least 15 civilians, according to witnesses and local officials cited by Time magazine in an investigation.

The US military first claimed a roadside bomb had killed a US Marine, Miguel Tarrazas, along with 15 Iraqi civilians caught in the blast. Later, a military statement said "gunmen attacked the convoy with small-arms fire" and in returning fire the Marines killed eight insurgents.

But after Time presented the US military with what Iraqis said had happened, an official investigation found that 15 of the civilians had been deliberately killed by US soldiers.

The bomb attack on the US Humvee took place at 7.15am. Eman Waleed, a nine-year-old child, lived in a house 150 yards from the explosion. "We heard a big noise that woke us all up," she recalled later. "Then we did what we always do when there's an explosion: my father goes in to his room with the Koran and prays the family will be spared harm."

The Marines claim they heard shots coming from the direction of Waleed's house. They burst in to the house and Eman heard shots from her father's room. They then entered the living room, where the rest of the family was gathered. She said: "I couldn't see their faces very well - only their guns sticking in to the doorway. I watched them shoot my grandfather, first in the chest and then in the head. Then they killed my granny."

The US soldiers started shooting in to the corner of the room where Eman and her eight-year-old brother, Abdul Rahman, were cowering. The other adults in the room tried to protect the two children with their bodies and were all shot dead. Eman and her brother were both wounded.

"We were lying there, bleeding and it hurt so much. Afterwards some Iraqi soldiers came. They carried us in their arms. I was crying, shouting, 'why did you do this to our family?' And one Iraqi soldier tells me, 'we didn't do it. The Americans did it'."

The Marines' explanation is that they heard the sound of a Kalashnikov being readied to shoot and had then fired their weapons. The Marines say they were fired at from a second house, where they broke down a door, threw in a grenade and opened fire. The eight who died in the second house included the owner, his wife, the owner's sister, a two-year-old son and three young daughters.

In a third house the Marines searched four young men were shot dead. A military investigation decided these were insurgent fighters, along with four others killed in the street.

The Marines later delivered 24 bodies to a hospital in Haditha, claiming they had been killed by shrapnel from a bomb. Dr Wahid, the director of the hospital, said: "It was obvious to us there were no organs slashed by shrapnel. The bullet wounds were very apparent. Most of the victims were shot in the head and chest - from close range."

An US military investigation decided the deaths were "collateral damage". Relatives were paid $2,500 (£1,400) for each of the dead.

Not surprised the author of this gem is named "Cock Burn".

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:30:22 PM EDT

[#1]

IBTE (In Before the Edit)

No curse words in titles.

Ok im done now

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:32:26 PM EDT

[#2]

if it's true, than those INDIVIDUAL soldiers/marines should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. if it's NOT true, than the author should be hanged for treason

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:33:33 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
if it's true, than those INDIVIDUAL soldiers/marines should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. if it's NOT true, than the author should be hanged for treason

yep

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:34:54 PM EDT

[#4]

saw it on bbc last night

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:35:26 PM EDT

[#5]

Supposedly Time got wind of this story from some liberal group who supplied them with videotape showing some of the wounds. However if the injuries were initially falsly reported as coming from shrapnel from a bomb, rather than from the firearms of the US Troops, there will be some 'splainin' to do. I don't think the US normally pays out when Joe Iraqi gets mowed down in crossfire either.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:36:33 PM EDT

[#6]

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:38:48 PM EDT

[#7]

Bah, they've tried to claim this stuff since before the invasion.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:38:51 PM EDT

[#8]

I'm not really all that surprised. I was watching "Off To War" the other day on the Discovery Times channel and they had this Army Master Sgt. who said:

"They's 3 kinds of people over here. IN-surgents, women who are gonna breed IN-surgents, and kids that are gonna grow up to be IN-surgents."

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:39:14 PM EDT

[#9]

I find it hard to believe somebody in our armed forces could shoot kids, but I'm not in their shoes.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:40:34 PM EDT

[#10]

Frankly I don't give a rat's ragged ass anymore. I'm so sick of the syphilitic, bedwetting felchers in the mainstream media trying to manufacture some scandal every week to discredit an administration that cannot be re-elected anyway while real scandals (UN Oil for Food, anyone?) are swept under the rug and ignored.

I'm about to the point that the next war protester I see is going to get run the fuck over.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:41:00 PM EDT

[#11]

I'm gonna wait to respond to this but I smell bullshit.

Iraqi police said that US troops had shot 11 people,

"I couldn't see their faces very well - only their guns sticking in to the doorway

<snip>

"We were lying there, bleeding and it hurt so much. Afterwards some Iraqi soldiers came. They carried us in their arms. I was crying, shouting, 'why did you do this to our family?' And one Iraqi soldier tells me, 'we didn't do it. The Americans did it'."

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:41:43 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Frankly I don't give a rat's ragged ass anymore. I'm so sick of the syphilitic, bedwetting felchers in the mainstream media trying to manufacture some scandal every week to discredit an administration that cannot be re-elected anyway while real scandals (UN Oil for Food, anyone?) are swept under the rug and ignored.

I'm about to the point that the next war protester I see is going to get run the fuck over.

Do you need a navigator?

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:41:52 PM EDT

[#13]

The media uproar is gonna be My Lai v2.0: Bigger and Louder.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:43:32 PM EDT

[#14]

Was in the Miami herald the other day.

Simple way to look at this.

Iraqi cop said " "
Iraqi cop from Saddams hometown said " "

Everyone know the IPs are corrupt as hell and pretty much made up of the locals from the areas. Lets see ... 1+1 = insurgent piece of crap liar.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:49:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I'm not really all that surprised. I was watching "Off To War" the other day on the Discovery Times channel and they had this Army Master Sgt. who said:

"They's 3 kinds of people over here. IN-surgents, women who are gonna breed IN-surgents, and kids that are gonna grow up to be IN-surgents."

That's not the most sterling of units based on what I've seen.

No small conincidence they are getting the press.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:51:46 PM EDT

[#16]

hmmmmm, So war is not about killing people anymore.... I say face east and keep killing till you hit water.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:52:18 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
The media uproar is gonna be My Lai v2.0: Bigger and Louder.

My Lai had some pretty undeniable evidence. This is all he said she said bullcrap with no real evidence.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:53:57 PM EDT

[#18]

Where is the proof?

Max

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:55:17 PM EDT

[#19]

I bet if we accidentally had a few media correspondents killed. Somehow, getting caught in the crossfire of a battle with insurgents. On repeated occassions................................

We would not be hearing this bullshit in our papers and on our TV. Bring the stupid fucking reporters home and let Johnny GI kick some haji butt like he has been trained to do.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:57:45 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
The media uproar is gonna be My Lai v2.0: Bigger and Louder.

My Lai had some pretty undeniable evidence. This is all he said she said bullcrap with no real evidence.

Yeah, but my point is the calls for blood from the MSM will be bigger and louder than thos after Mỹ Lai.

Posted: 3/21/2006 5:59:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
if it's true, than those INDIVIDUAL soldiers/marines should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. if it's NOT true, than the author should be ~~hanged for treason~~ jailed for libel/slander.

Sorry fellas, but it ain't treason.
ETA: Just chiming in here, remaining faithful to the Constitution.
I'm sure this allegation is BS.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:00:45 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I'm not really all that surprised. I was watching "Off To War" the other day on the Discovery Times channel and they had this Army Master Sgt. who said:

"They's 3 kinds of people over here. IN-surgents, women who are gonna breed IN-surgents, and kids that are gonna grow up to be IN-surgents."

If I were his CO, he'd be lighter by a stripe, just for being stupid enough to say that into an open mic.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:05:29 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Sorry fellas, but it ain't treason.

You think giving aid and comfort to the enemy by disseminating false propaganda isn't treason? Why don't you ask "Axis Sally" or "Lord Haw-Haw" about that.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:06:40 PM EDT

[#24]

Maybe the brave

insurgents shouldn't make a practice of hiding behind civilians...

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:08:17 PM EDT

[#25]

If I was there, and happened to get caught in a firefight......Man I would shoot everyone I saw that was taller than my rifle and wasnt wearing a Uniform. Serious I would just keep shooting and shooting untill nobody was shooting back at me.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:10:07 PM EDT

[#26]

This kinda shit happens in a war zone, it's a shame that it does, and that it damages the reputation of all the troops out there that don't engage in it. And it's a shame that the soldiers that do get pushed beyond their psychological limits and screw up, and that some unstable types wear the uniform in the first place.

Shit happens, it's one of many reasons I've never thought occupation was a proper role for the military. Peacekeeping is a difficult enough job in your own country, where you understand the culture, speak the language, and hopefully even know many of the people you're serving, even then police go wrong occasionally.

The PR nightmare is the real tragedy here.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:10:23 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Sorry fellas, but it ain't treason.

You think giving aid and comfort to the enemy by disseminating false propaganda isn't treason? Why don't you ask "Axis Sally" or "Lord Haw-Haw" about that.

Nimrod, as disgusting as the accusations are - they are protected under the freedom of the press.

I don't like it anymore than you do. However, I support the Constitution ENTIRELY, and if that means letting Senior Cocksucker chime in with his liberal 2-cents... Then so be it. Besides, when it's shown that it's bullshit, this guy will have ZERO credibility in the world media.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:14:34 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
If I was there, and happened to get caught in a firefight......Man I would shoot everyone I saw that was taller than my rifle and wasnt wearing a Uniform. Serious I would just keep shooting and shooting untill nobody was shooting back at me.

good thing you aren't there, then.

Posted: 3/21/2006 6:15:45 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
If I was there, and happened to get caught in a firefight......Man I would shoot everyone I saw that was taller than my rifle and wasnt wearing a Uniform. Serious I would just keep shooting and shooting untill nobody was shooting back at me.

good thing you aren't there, then.

+1
This is a delicate war to fight, and we are winning.
Low intensity conflicts are hard to fight, but we are doing it succesfully.

Posted: 3/21/2006 9:42:47 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
If I was there, and happened to get caught in a firefight......Man I would shoot everyone I saw that was taller than my rifle and wasnt wearing a Uniform. Serious I would just keep shooting and shooting untill nobody was shooting back at me.

How old are you again?

Posted: 3/21/2006 9:52:07 PM EDT

[#31]

i have a hard time getting all worked up over these kinds of allegations. chances are, its bullshit. if its true, so what? big terrorists give birth to baby terrorists and then brain wash them to hate america. i say let allah sort 'em out. if i were prez, i would have nuked that shithole into oblivion a looong time ago.

Posted: 3/21/2006 9:52:13 PM EDT

[#32]

Sounds an awful lot like the “It was just a wedding party.” stories that ran in 2001/02.

Moral of the story: Do not shoot at armed people without expecting them to shoot back. If your entire family is standing next to you when you shoot, expect them to buy a small piece of your farm.

Duh!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Oh s%^* - look what just hit the press

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