So my assistant has put my company in a legal bind over the last few months...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So my assistant has put my company in a legal bind over the last few months...

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:13:05 AM EDT

Like the title says, my location is being threatened with legal action in 25 days if an invoice isn't paid for.

[rant]In September, I tasked her with placing an ad for the restaurant in several places. One in particular, she gave repeat business to a company that the previous General Manager had done business with.

The company had a contract with us aparently before that. Well, my assistant placed an order with them over the phone and had one of those "This call will be monitored for quality assurance purposes" notices on the phone and she continued to give consent to the company.

My boss (a succeeding General Manager) has specifically said he will not pay the invoice until he sees a printed copy of the contract, but this company can't/won't furnish it to us.

So now my assistant gave me a nastygram that came in the mail attn to her and it noted we had a 25 day grace period before legal action was pursued.

Had my assistant ALSO followed company policy by noting as soon as she spoke with a representative that the does not consent to the recording of the phone call in any way (Florida is a 2 party consent state, and the company based in NY is bound to a 1 party consent law), and then followed my superior's instructions to not commit any business until a contract was furnished, we wouldn't be dealing with this shit right now!!![/rant]

I guess I'm ranting because I'll probably have to take the hit for this one because she is my subordinate... but rank has it's advantages and shit rolls down hill I guess.

I don't know how to handle this situation between her and myself though...

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:20:53 AM EDT

[#1]

fire!

-d

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:24:52 AM EDT

[#2]

Draw Down on her and get the cash out of her pocketbook

Fire her!!!!!

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:26:18 AM EDT

[#3]

I don't want to fire her, and she sure as hell didn't wake up and say "I'm going to make my company vulnerable".

It may be my only choice, but that still won't solve an unpaid invoice from this.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:27:22 AM EDT

[#4]

"Tasked her"? My God. You ARE a manager.

(Runs away screaming.)

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:29:17 AM EDT

[#5]

if shes hot write her up if not..... unemployment line for her

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:30:09 AM EDT

[#6]

No way in hell you'll swing this without something bad going into her HR file. Firing may be a bit stiff, but it's going to look bad, but you'll be considered a poor manager unless you push it further downhill.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:30:55 AM EDT

[#7]

It's an idle threat.

Write a letter telling them you will pay as soon a you get a copy of the contract.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:33:51 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
It's an idle threat.

Write a letter telling them you will pay as soon a you get a copy of the contract.

That's kind of what I think will have to be done. I've left a message for my Coporate Legal dept on this one.

However, this will be the first write up I place in her file (myself and the GM are the only ones able to write her up or terminate her)

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:36:21 AM EDT

[#9]

Uh, maybe your compnay should pay its bills

Just because your boss wants a copy of the contract doesn't mean you have the right to not pay for services rendered.

And if your assisant doesn't have the authority to authorize payment verbally, then it's your fault for delegating a task to her she wasn't allowed to perform.

If she gets fired or reprimanded for this, she should sue for wrongful termination or discilpline. She did what she was told.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:36:51 AM EDT

[#10]

"You have to pay us or we'll sue but we refuse to give you the deatals of how our business realationship works".

Sounds like a graduate of the Darl McBride/SCO school of business to me.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:38:03 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
"Tasked her"? My God. You ARE a manager.

Quoted:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/2A373/ttiwwop.gif if shes hot don't write her up if not..... unemployment line for her

fixed it for ya

Seriously, everybody fucks up once in a while, give her a break.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:43:12 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Uh, maybe your compnay should pay its bills

Just because your boss wants a copy of the contract doesn't mean you have the right to not pay for services rendered.

And if your assisant doesn't have the authority to authorize payment verbally, then it's your fault for delegating a task to her she wasn't allowed to perform.

If she gets fired or reprimanded for this, she should sue for wrongful termination or discilpline. She did what she was told.

Learn to read.
The op never stated the intention was not to pay the bills, but the company he works for has a policy that it will only be paid if there is a written invoice. The company ALSO has a policy not to give consent to monitoring calls. The assistant violated policy TWICE, which in most cases is grounds for termination. The assistant was never authorized to allow verbal contracts.
Its possible the assistant simply made mistakes, but the policy is there to prevent this kind of crap.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:43:56 AM EDT

[#13]

darwin dog:
No she didn't. The account with them was current until she committed business to them without the contract reviewed by the GM. The GM was ready to give business AFTER he saw the contract, but my assistant had her head up her ass. I'd fire her for insubordination and she could sue all she wants.

Airwolf, that's exactly what I'm saying. We can't get a copy of the invoice or contract from them if our lives depended on it.

BTW my assistant is the AP department for our location. The nastygram shows that there is a total for $339 and an invoice reference, but we don'thave the invoice to begin with.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:49:18 AM EDT

[#14]

LOL, good luck with that court case.

You accepted the services, right?

The services had value, right?

Then what you're saying is that you and the 'boss' are pissed at an underling for entering into an agreement for services performed and delivered that you cannot now weasel out of?

Un fucking believeable.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:52:50 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Uh, maybe your compnay should pay its bills

Just because your boss wants a copy of the contract doesn't mean you have the right to not pay for services rendered.

And if your assisant doesn't have the authority to authorize payment verbally, then it's your fault for delegating a task to her she wasn't allowed to perform.

If she gets fired or reprimanded for this, she should sue for wrongful termination or discilpline. She did what she was told.

Ok just reject the invoice indiacting that they didn't provide the background required by the contract. If they complain tell them to provide a copy of the contract to support their claim.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:53:23 AM EDT

[#16]

Not trying to weasel out of it, just want the contract and invoice to pay by.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:54:21 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
darwin dog:
No she didn't. The account with them was current until she committed business to them without the contract reviewed by the GM. The GM was ready to give business AFTER he saw the contract, but my assistant had her head up her ass. I'd fire her for insubordination and she could sue all she wants.

Airwolf, that's exactly what I'm saying. We can't get a copy of the invoice or contract from them if our lives depended on it.

BTW my assistant is the AP department for our location. The nastygram shows that there is a total for $339 and an invoice reference, but we don'thave the invoice to begin with.

You won't get sued for $339.

Posted: 2/24/2006 10:58:00 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
darwin dog:
No she didn't. The account with them was current until she committed business to them without the contract reviewed by the GM. The GM was ready to give business AFTER he saw the contract, but my assistant had her head up her ass. I'd fire her for insubordination and she could sue all she wants.

Airwolf, that's exactly what I'm saying. We can't get a copy of the invoice or contract from them if our lives depended on it.

BTW my assistant is the AP department for our location. The nastygram shows that there is a total for $339 and an invoice reference, but we don'thave the invoice to begin with.

You won't get sued for $339.

+1 With a loss that small they will most likely just write it off on their taxes. The threat to sue is standard procedure in scaring up some money.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:05:07 AM EDT

[#19]

Did the rules change between managers? It sounds like you told her to do her job as she has done before using existing companies with existing contracts, she did it, the new manager threw a fit, and now you are blaming it on her because you didn't educate her on the new guys rule change. It sounds like she knew exactly how to do her job but apparently you and your boss don't exactly know how the behind the scene's work is getting done. That's not her fault, that's your fault.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:09:12 AM EDT

[#20]

So my assistant has put my company in a legal bind over the last few months...

Over 339 fucking dollars?

You made it sound like the fucking company was going under......shit! Do the girl a favor and fire her so she can go get a good job.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:20:08 AM EDT

[#21]

Just let legal handle it, and give your assistant better instructions next time. Legal usually gets to pay things without following standard procedures verbatim. Oh, and if by "assistant" you really mean "secretary" then you shouldn't be deligating this to her anyway.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:23:45 AM EDT

[#22]

Never let the shit roll downhill. Assuming they're good folks that you want to keep and just "made a mistake", it's your responsibility to take the hit and cover your people. Otherwise you just become a pointy hair boss (see Dilbert).

- CD

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:27:10 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Did the rules change between managers? It sounds like you told her to do her job as she has done before using existing companies with existing contracts, she did it, the new manager threw a fit, and now you are blaming it on her because you didn't educate her on the new guys rule change. It sounds like she knew exactly how to do her job but apparently you and your boss don't exactly know how the behind the scene's work is getting done. That's not her fault, that's your fault.

She was told not to engage in business with a company until a contract had been reviewed. She did not obtain a contract and still gave them business.The new guy's rule has been in effect for more than 2 years.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:27:48 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
So my assistant has put my company in a legal bind over the last few months...

Over 339 fucking dollars? You made it sound like the fucking company was going under......shit! Do the girl a favor and fire her so she can go get a good job.

Never said it was going under or made it out to be, she brought on a legal issue to be handled. Exactly what I said.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:35:14 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Never let the shit roll downhill. Assuming they're good folks that you want to keep and just "made a mistake", it's your responsibility to take the hit and cover your people. Otherwise you just become a pointy hair boss (see Dilbert).

- CD

I agree with this. Basically, shit may roll down hill, but the stink trail still leads to the top.

As far as your relationship with the employee, use this as a positive. I assume she has been an otherwise good employee. This was a mistake of the head, not the heart. Use the opportunity to teach her the properway and find a way for her to come out of this with a positive. You will have an improved employee who is loyal to you, rather than having to find a new one to start over with.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:36:18 AM EDT

[#26]

You sir, are definitely a supervisor, not a leader. I've worked for people like you before, and can't say it ever went anywhere good with them at the helm. Here's the plan you need to follow:

1. Grow a spine, stop dodging responsibility for what was ultimately YOUR task.
2. Learn to back your people, that loyalty will come back to you someday.
3. Employees are held to "crystal clear" standards. Doesn't sound crystal clear to me if youre changing shit around on her.
4. Don't sweat the small stuff, we all thought you had a crisis on your hands. That amount of money involved here is less than a corporate lunch. No big deal, bro.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:37:34 AM EDT

[#27]

I would be real curious about a company that won't send a copy of their invoice and contract for payment

You would be surprised at "dummy" invoices we get every month for payments for products and services we never ordered or received. Just yesterday I received an invoice from a company requesting payment for 3 toner cartridges for total of $625 and they stamped "2nd request" in big red letters. Fortunately we know that this is an "dummy" invoice. On an average month I think we get about 20-25 such invoices.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:44:58 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
You sir, are definitely a supervisor, not a leader. I've worked for people like you before, and can't say it ever went anywhere good with them at the helm. Here's the plan you need to follow:

1. Grow a spine, stop dodging responsibility for what was ultimately YOUR task.
I don't dodge any responsibility. She was hired with the job responsibility of handling AP functions and other tasks the GM or myself delegate to her. Not one task was my own. I'm an HR manager, not an accountant.
2. Learn to back your people, that loyalty will come back to you someday.
I always back my people, I've expressed responsibility to my superior, and now the problem is mine to handle, out of my subordinate's hands, she will get a discussion about it, but no written reprimand about it if you need to see my backing of employees, and then taking responsibility, I urge you to read www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=434395 in it's entirity.
3. Employees are held to "crystal clear" standards. Doesn't sound crystal clear to me if youre changing shit around on her.
No shit has been changed around on her. Company procedure was not followed, and would have prevented this if it was.
4. Don't sweat the small stuff, we all thought you had a crisis on your hands. That amount of money involved here is less than a corporate lunch. No big deal, bro.
I'm sweating it because I have to explain to corporate why something like this happened and company procedure was violated on my watch, my boss will probably have to do the same. I have to go to bat once again for an employee whos work and loyalty I value, and have valued since my intial interviews with her.

Unfortunately, the goons at my corporate office are sharks and are "cut-the-fat-happy" with EVERYONE.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:50:39 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
It's an idle threat.

Write a letter telling them you will pay as soon a you get a copy of the contract.

+1000. No proof of liability...no pay. They can scream, and bitch, and threaten till Hell freezes over but until they furnish you with proof that you are liable for the deal...they are blowing smoke!

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:50:46 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I would be real curious about a company that won't send a copy of their invoice and contract for payment You would be surprised at "dummy" invoices we get every month for payments for products and services we never ordered or received. Just yesterday I received an invoice from a company requesting payment for 3 toner cartridges for total of $625 and they stamped "2nd request" in big red letters. Fortunately we know that this is an "dummy" invoice. On an average month I think we get about 20-25 such invoices.

Yeah, I remember the toner cartridge one from a place I worked years ago.

Quoted:
You sir, are definitely a supervisor, not a leader. I've worked for people like you before, and can't say it ever went anywhere good with them at the helm. Here's the plan you need to follow:

1. Grow a spine, stop dodging responsibility for what was ultimately YOUR task.
2. Learn to back your people, that loyalty will come back to you someday.
3. Employees are held to "crystal clear" standards. Doesn't sound crystal clear to me if youre changing shit around on her.
4. Don't sweat the small stuff, we all thought you had a crisis on your hands. That amount of money involved here is less than a corporate lunch. No big deal, bro.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, I was just being an asshole about it.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:52:27 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, I was just being an asshole about it.

Thanks for allowing me to be inside of the CoC by not saying it.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:57:49 AM EDT

[#32]

All this over a lousy $339? For God's sakes, do yourself a favor, let her pay it, pay it yourself or split the cost with her. But that amount of money isn't worth a half hour headache in the business world. Pay the clowns, never do business with them again and put the word out on them. I also find it hard to believe that any reputable company would refuse to send an invoice, but if they actually did provide the services, pay them and move on. Now, if they didn't provide the services that's another matter. Oh, and if she's otherwise a good employee, smack her on the wrist and move on. If she's not a good employee here's a good reason to send her packing. But whatever, deal with it fast and move on.

Posted: 2/24/2006 11:58:26 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
she will get a discussion about it, but no written reprimand about it

OK, I'll quit messing with you, that's the right thing to do. Now if it happens again.......

Posted: 2/24/2006 12:03:23 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
All this over a lousy $339? For God's sakes, do yourself a favor, let her pay it, pay it yourself or split the cost with her. But that amount of money isn't worth a half hour headache in the business world. Pay the clowns, never do business with them again and put the word out on them. I also find it hard to believe that any reputable company would refuse to send an invoice, but if they actually did provide the services, pay them and move on. Now, if they didn't provide the services that's another matter. Oh, and if she's otherwise a good employee, smack her on the wrist and move on. If she's not a good employee here's a good reason to send her packing. But whatever, deal with it fast and move on.

1: I'm not the stubborn one here, by boss is; he is the one not authorizing the payment, every invoice that can be paid must have the GMs signature on it with the appropriate accounting codes to follow. The contract doesn't have to be reviewed by corporate, just by someone in charge of handling the transaction or whatever, so that the terms are understood.
2. Shes a great employee, I'd do anything to keep her working for me, and I'm proud to say I have a very competent worker. I don't mind mistake here and there, I don't see how any manager can and still be productive/efficient.

Posted: 2/24/2006 12:16:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Did the rules change between managers? It sounds like you told her to do her job as she has done before using existing companies with existing contracts, she did it, the new manager threw a fit, and now you are blaming it on her because you didn't educate her on the new guys rule change. It sounds like she knew exactly how to do her job but apparently you and your boss don't exactly know how the behind the scene's work is getting done. That's not her fault, that's your fault.

the account to her knowledge had been established,,use of the firm was status quo by your predicessor.
She did as she seems to have done before for previous management,

a contract either verbal or written can hold up in court
but for 339 bucks aint gonna happen.,,YOU need to speak with the company causing the issue, explain the reasoning behind changes in YOUR SOP's and that a new management team has takenover the property..
AND that You cant get a check cut by corporate with out a valid contract/original invoice
(phone orders are inferred job orders in most of the modern world and all that is needed is a verbal commit to get it done)..
in the end
You are going to have to pay
She did nothing wrong,
Your new "boss"/ GM, is a horses ass...

MY humble opinion as a Vice President of Food and Beverage for 2 large operators..

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:29:49 PM EDT

[#36]

Why is everyone always so ready to fire people? A $340 screw up is nothing. Anytime you give verbal instructions there is a chance they will be misunderstood. Too many places have so many policies that no one could possibly learn them all. What a bunch of Mickey Mouse BS. Everybody makes mistakes. Whoopee.

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:35:09 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
All this over a lousy $339? For God's sakes, do yourself a favor, let her pay it, pay it yourself or split the cost with her. But that amount of money isn't worth a half hour headache in the business world. Pay the clowns, never do business with them again and put the word out on them. I also find it hard to believe that any reputable company would refuse to send an invoice, but if they actually did provide the services, pay them and move on. Now, if they didn't provide the services that's another matter. Oh, and if she's otherwise a good employee, smack her on the wrist and move on. If she's not a good employee here's a good reason to send her packing. But whatever, deal with it fast and move on.

1: I'm not the stubborn one here, by boss is; he is the one not authorizing the payment, every invoice that can be paid must have the GMs signature on it with the appropriate accounting codes to follow. The contract doesn't have to be reviewed by corporate, just by someone in charge of handling the transaction or whatever, so that the terms are understood.
2. Shes a great employee, I'd do anything to keep her working for me, and I'm proud to say I have a very competent worker. I don't mind mistake here and there, I don't see how any manager can and still be productive/efficient.

I'm not saying the company should pay it. I'm saying that YOU, or HER, or a combination of the two should just pay them and make it go away. The boss shouldn't be a problem, if there's no invoice he doesn't want to know right? And there's no invoice, right? I'm just saying, it's your peace of mind and it's her job rating. One or both of you just pay the stinking thing. I did that more than once when I worked in the corporate world. Pay it, make it go away, chalk it up to experience and move on.

Edited to add: Handle it, handle it!

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:48:39 PM EDT

[#38]

no contract/invoice... no case. If they can not provide you with an invoice how are they going to show the court you owe then a dime?

just for the record what kind of money are we talking about here? is the dollar amount something she would have had authorization to approve?

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:48:55 PM EDT

[#39]

This all hinges on how big of a rack she has.

you really consider $339 a "legal bind"?

what are you guys going to do when an ACTUAL problem comes along?

Posted: 2/24/2006 1:54:31 PM EDT

[#40]

never mind i just read the rest of the thread.

you are seriously going to attempt to crucify this employee for 339.00 that is all honesty is more of a misunderstanding than a fuckup?

WTF kind of manager are you? 339.00 isn't worth the time it would take to write them up.

Posted: 2/24/2006 2:00:41 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
2. Shes a great employee, I'd do anything to keep her working for me, and I'm proud to say I have a very competent worker. I don't mind mistake here and there, I don't see how any manager can and still be productive/efficient.

this is your answer right here. Tell her why what she did was wrong and don't mention it to her again. YOU deal with the management fallout with YOUR boss. You don't berate good employees over 339.00 one time fuckups. Thats how a company becomes known as a shitty place to work and all your good talent goes to your competetors.

Posted: 2/24/2006 2:47:05 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
This all hinges on how big of a rack she has.

you really consider $339 a "legal bind"?

what are you guys going to do when an ACTUAL problem comes along?

No problem is too small to be considered a legal bind

Posted: 2/24/2006 2:48:31 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
never mind i just read the rest of the thread.

you are seriously going to attempt to crucify this employee for 339.00 that is all honesty is more of a misunderstanding than a fuckup?

WTF kind of manager are you? 339.00 isn't worth the time it would take to write them up.

No crucification, she isn't religious

.

I'm not making her take the fall at all. My statements above about termination were in response to someone saying that she would sue for wrongful termination. But I'm over the whole situation. Rants are usually formed in anger or frustration. I've had plenty of time today to properly deal with the situation.

Posted: 2/24/2006 3:49:20 PM EDT

[#44]

She's a good employee, your "boss" is an anal retentive prick, and you are stuck in the middle. All over $339 bucks. Small wonder why so many American Businesses are run by retards and good worker will leave at the drop of a hat.

And people wonder why Unions ever started?

Talk to her, refuse payment til you get an invoice, put a fax machine in, institute a policy of ANY orders/jobs to be on paper and have any contracts faxed, signed by you or your limp d--k boss. Make him actually do something besides run off good employees. And stand up for your employee if they do good work. The next one after she leaves might be a total ass and sue the hell out of the Company over some "incident". Is the next "golf" outing paid by your boss going to be $339? Or will that just about cover the drinks?

Posted: 2/24/2006 4:10:47 PM EDT

[#45]

She was conned. Tell them to bring the contract to court. End of story.

Alright, let's close this one now.

Posted: 2/24/2006 4:22:12 PM EDT

[#46]

WTF? Who on earth performs a service without a valid purchase order? If that company performed a service based on the verbal authorization of someone without authority to make such a commitment, tough dookie for them.

I had a subordinate do something similar for a part that I couldn't get authorization for, I can tell you that the vendor was PISSED (and so was I), but in the end they didn't get paid because they did the work without a written purchase order.

Posted: 2/24/2006 6:10:46 PM EDT

[#47]

You're going to write contracts over $339 worth of goods/services?

If I wrote a "contract" everytime I sold a small amount like that, my business would come to a standstill. Could they have saved any money going elsewhere? Like what, $50?

As far as the vendor is concerned, when your asst called, and ordered on the phone, that is a contract. It is to me. I do a lot of business on the phone. "Hey, Free, send me half a doz of those widgets you sent me last week." I box them up, slap on a label, and ship. And mail an invoice. Then they send me a check. That is how it is done.

This is a vendor you have done business with before? Screw your boss.

Did your "subordinate" just get up that morning and decide to order $339 worth of goods and services just because it seeming fun to do? Or did someone say, "Sally, get on the phone and get me _____, we need it here pronto." In that case, she was authorized.

Your company I would not do business with again. Sorry, but that's not good business on your company's part.

Be specific, what was the order? What goods/services?

Posted: 2/25/2006 5:49:59 AM EDT

[#48]

NoNo...Fire her. I've had it with you complaining to me about this bitch. She calls your cell phone ALL the time and asks about your personal life. So you need to put an end to it.

Posted: 2/25/2006 6:19:29 AM EDT

[#49]

I thought I closed this thread???

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So my assistant has put my company in a legal bind over the last few months...

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