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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:24:08 PM EDT
This is not a good development. Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani is the only person able to keep the Shiites in check, and has always been very moderate...
 Looks like it may be 'GAME ON' for a Civil War now... hopefully our people will be OK. Attacks turn sects from compromise By Steve Negus, Iraq Correspondent Published: February 23 2006 23:18 | Last updated: February 23 2006 23:18 Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq’s leading cleric, on Thursday made it clear that the Shia community must be free to defend itself, after having earlier called for calm after Wednesday’s bomb attack on the Golden Mosque in Samarra. If necessary that would mean using militias rather than counting on government security forces or US troops. “If the security agencies are unable to guarantee the necessary security, then the believers are able to do so with God’s help,” he said in a statement issued amid a wave of retaliatory attacks on Sunni mosques. His comment, along with other statements from Shia officials in government, could be seen by Shia and Sunni as an acceptance of sectarian divides at the expense of efforts to build non-sectarian security forces and national institutions – in effect recognising that civil war could be imminent. Adel Abdel Mahdi, Iraq’s vice-president and a key figure in the Shia-led religious bloc, said the government “should give a bigger role to the people” in security. continues……… news.ft.com/cms/s/28949aec-a4c2-11da-897c-0000779e2340,dwp_uuid=c1a5b968-e1ed-11d7-81c6-0820abe49a01.html |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:25:05 PM EDT
[#1]
unhook the plow and let em go....
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:27:44 PM EDT
[#2]
give em enough rope.......
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:29:25 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah, I hope our commanders have the good sense to get out of the way and let them at each other. I wouldnt want to have to stand in between that.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:29:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm shocked!
 I knew this was coming sooner or later. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:30:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I say we draw a cartoon of an exploding mosque and watch them all keel over from a heart attack.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:31:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Is it really that hard for a country not to be a shithole?
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#7]
I know the arguments about Kurdistan, but it seems to me we need three Iraqs. With US troops in at least two of the three as a counter weight.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:34:08 PM EDT
[#8]
You said it! |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:34:13 PM EDT
[#9]
I for one am very surprised. I always believed them to be a peace-loving people.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Wise words Rustedace...but you gotta admit ...it'd make great footage....  Thanks for your service Taffy |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:35:58 PM EDT
[#11]
I am shocked. SHOCKED!
I really thought once they got a taste of democracy everything would be hunky dory. I did. I really did. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:36:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Game over more like.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:37:28 PM EDT
[#13]
I agree. The Kurds are going at it like Gangbusters building a proper modern country, and the south is making reasonable progress too. But the middle bit...I see no reason for optimism with the Sunni areas... ANdy |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:38:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Like they need a reason to kill each other.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:40:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Given the history of the region, it was only a matter of time. I hope we have the good sense to stand back and let nature take it's course. Any other approach will only delay the inevitable.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:42:56 PM EDT
[#16]
It was inevitable, the only thing that kept them from fighting each other was Saddam..........now if we can just pull our guys back to a safe distance and keep feeding them ammo......
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:43:14 PM EDT
[#17]
impression i get is the sunnis actually more ogranized than the shiites. theres more shiites than sunnis though. sunnis used to running the show trying to get that back. shiites just wanna be shiites...
a country less stable than before saddam is probably worse than a stable counry with saddam. look at lebanon.. iraq could become the middle eastern version of somalia. one big crazy killing fest breeding nothing but crazies. throw iran into the mix and the oil that's in the area. not good... there will never be peace in the middle beast.. winter is coming... |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 3:45:55 PM EDT
[#18]
I think it will come out that Iran was directly involved in the mosque bombing. |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:04:56 PM EDT
[#19]
oh! oh!
But the Mujahideen Council said the government of Shi'ite Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari and Iran, Iraq's predominantly Shi'ite neighbour, were behind the Samarra attack. "The Mujahideen declare that what happened was concocted by the apostate government of Jaafari and ... Iran to cover up for the crimes they commit against (Sunni) Muslims," it said.. Iraq militants blame govt, Iran for shrine attack 23 Feb 2006 15:39:35 GMT Source: Reuters DUBAI, Feb 23 (Reuters) - An Iraqi militant grouping led by al Qaeda blamed Baghdad's government and Iran on Thursday for the bombing of a major Shi'ite shrine and vowed reprisals after retaliatory attacks on Sunni Muslim mosques. Sectarian violence swept the country after the bomb attack destroyed the Shi'ites' Golden Mosque in Samarra on Wednesday, unleashing attacks on Sunni mosques and dozens of killings. "The Mujahideen Council declares that it will not allow this overt aggression and violation on the Sunnis and their mosques. The answer will be jolting," the body, set up by Iraq's al Qaeda and other Sunni militant groups, said in statement posted on a Web site often used by militant groups. The authenticity of the statement could not be verified. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice suggested al Qaeda's leader in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, could have launched Wednesday's attack to trigger sectarian war. "The only people that want a civil war in Iraq are the terrorists like Zarqawi," she said. But the Mujahideen Council said the government of Shi'ite Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari and Iran, Iraq's predominantly Shi'ite neighbour, were behind the Samarra attack. "The Mujahideen declare that what happened was concocted by the apostate government of Jaafari and ... Iran to cover up for the crimes they commit against (Sunni) Muslims," it said. "The incident in Samarra, which targeted one of the rejectionists' (Shi'ite) idols, was followed by a series of events that show Muslims everywhere what had been prepared secretly against the Sunnis," it said. Iraq cancelled all leave for the police and army and placed them on the highest alert as the death toll mounted on Thursday. Police and military sources tallied more than 130 deaths, mostly of Sunnis, around the two biggest cities Baghdad and Basra in the 24 hours since the bloodless but highly symbolic bombing of the Shi'ite Golden Mosque in Samarra. Dozens of Sunni mosques have been attacked and several burnt to the ground. www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L23788906.htm |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:23:04 PM EDT
[#20]
I still think the CIA blew up the gold dome mosque!!!
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:26:34 PM EDT
[#21]
I say we send all the ammo needed and let them have at it.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:28:54 PM EDT
[#22]
tag
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:29:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Civil war is possible, but I'll wait and see. People have been declaring civil war to be imminent for the last two years.
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:30:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Then you are an idiot... with all due respect. - BG |
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:43:41 PM EDT
[#25]
I can't believe nobodies said it yet...
It's Bush's fault!
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:51:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Is it possible to blow up a mosque with 7 1/2 shot from a 28 gauge?
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:54:48 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm waiting for this too, someone's going to say it
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Posted: 2/23/2006 11:58:20 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm not sure, would the shia really blow up a mosque with that much importance to them? Seems like they would have picked some other target, but then again, I'm not sure how cazy they are. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 12:06:23 AM EDT
[#29]
I wouldn't put it past the Iranian's, they would love for a civil war to start. Also Grand Ayatolla Al Sistani is no friend to the Iranian Mullah's, if fact the Iranian Mullahs wouldn't mind seeing Al Sistani take a dirtnap. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 12:21:34 AM EDT
[#30]
It was al Sistani that stopped the civil war brewing back in 2003. He was the one that reigned in al Sadr and his Mehdi Army when Sadr City in Baghdad was a hotbed of trouble. Since then, the Shiites have been quiet, and its the Sunnis that have done all the damage. If the Shiites refuse to sit still and keep taking it, then the Southern 2/3 of Iraq becomes more or less ungovernable. The Kurds in the North will wall themselves in, and probably declare an independant Kurdistan. They will then have to beat back the Turkish invasion.
Frankly, I wouldn't put this past either AQ or the Mullahs. Discord in the south serves both their purposes. Mind you, I seriously doubt that the Sunnis can win this one. They are right smack in the middle, between two large and well organised groups that hate their guts. Hitler learnt how much fun fighting a 2 front war was. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 12:56:12 AM EDT
[#31]
Al Sistani is a shrewd leader, he tends to keep a low profile but keeps a very observant eye on things. He is said to be a voracious reader of news from all around the world, has studied history. He escaped from Iran because Khomani wanted him dead for oppossing the "theocracy" there. Al Sistani thinks theocracies are bad news and lead to tyrants, he believes religious leaders should stick to religion and leave politics to others. When he flexes his muscles, it tends to be well thought out. I believe he gave Al Sadr an offer he couldn't refuse a few years ago when the Fat Man was causing a shitload of trouble. Al Sadr and his Mahdi Army (what was left of them) got real quiet when Al Sistani spoke up and told him to stand down. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 1:37:09 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 2/24/2006 2:00:55 AM EDT
[#33]
I didn't know that. Thanks. It makes a lot of sense. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 3:43:12 AM EDT
[#34]
fatboy and his pimp army got real quiet when they started waking up with their throats cut! my money is still on zarqawi. wtf do you think would happen to iran's juice if there was even the slightest wiff they were involved in the bombing of the mosque??? the iraqi shia would turn on iran like a pack of hungry dogs on a steak! |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 3:49:34 AM EDT
[#35]
I don't doubt for a minute that Iran is giving support to Zarqawi. But I believe that this bombing is Zarqawi's doing. What the press so stupidly does not understand about the "Iraqi insurgents" is that they are just as happy killing muslims as they are killing white devils. In their mind if you don't agree 100% with their ideas you become a traitor to the faith worthy of death. I think we will discover that this is another AQ in Iraq presentation, but that Zarqawi is nervous because he fears that he may have hit too hard and started to galvanize determined efforts to get rid of him. If that is the case, he will be looking to deflect blame somewhere else so he can continue operations in Iraq and not end up getting HIS head cutt off on home video. Knowing the distrust that exists with Iran, why not blame them? I get the distinct impression that somebody stepped in it and they are looking desperately to wipe it on to someone else before people figure out where the smell is coming from. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:00:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Yep. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:01:46 AM EDT
[#37]
Divide and conquor.
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:06:18 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:07:30 AM EDT
[#39]
You know, I was thinking the other day about all the Iraqi casualties (killed) since we invaded three years ago. Don't know what the total is, but it seems like they've averaged 30-50 each and every day for a couple of years (not counting their losses in the initial invasion). If they've lost 50 per day over three years, that's approximately 55,000 Iraqis.
Hmmm. I figured it'd be a higher number. Still, that's quite a bit, and the total keeps going up every day. Oh well, carry on. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:08:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Let 'em fight it out. We can inherit a nice oil platform in the deal.
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:15:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Not to mention turning the place into a hog feedlot! CBinGA |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:17:43 AM EDT
[#42]
... Almost nothing good can come from this
... We stand to lose any, even if puny, strategic foothold we once may have had ... Anything in the country rebuilt, any respect garnered by, and all Americans lost in Iraq will be only be remembered as one of this countries biggest blunders ever |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:21:02 AM EDT
[#43]
+10 to the 12th power! Think Camere Rouge/Killing Fields. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 6:48:47 AM EDT
[#44]
You might as well believe it was  instead. Makes just as much sense, if not more.
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Posted: 2/24/2006 7:14:16 AM EDT
[#45]
I think the Sunni Imams have it coming.
This war has always beeen operated from the Sunni (Wahabi) Mosques. Killing these Imams and burning those Mosques is something that should have occurred a few years ago. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 7:33:36 AM EDT
[#46]
There will still be civil war over who gets the oil, and they can never divide it fairly enough. |
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Posted: 2/24/2006 7:45:18 AM EDT
[#47]
wahabiism is a saudi/taliban/aq thing. not so much in iraq which used to be much more secular. as the shit gets worse though, i reckon it'll grow. kind of a knee-jerk reaction to the shia fundamentalism ("ha! 7th century??? progressive dilettantes! we'll go back to the 6th century!!!")
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Posted: 2/24/2006 7:50:08 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 2/24/2006 8:12:17 AM EDT
[#49]
SO i dont get it. What is the consenses here at ARFCOM? Does this mean that the Anti-war people were right? They always said that this was going to degenerate into a civil war despite protestations from the Admin. So what do you people here now think? Was Bush wrong about invading Iraq?
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Posted: 2/24/2006 8:15:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Wow, terrorist vs. terrorist....kinda like spy vs. spy.
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