Red-light & speed cameras

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Red-light & speed cameras

Posted: 2/15/2006 8:59:03 AM EDT

Damn things are popping up everywhere in town.

Yea, yea, yea... someone will chime in and say that if everyone obeyed the law,
we wouldn't have to worry about them.

People are getting ticketed for running a red light for making a right turn on red,
and there is no stop line in that lane. People are claiming they stopped, but that
the camera only shows that they weren't stopped where it thought the line should be.

I hate the fact you can't face the accusor in court, because the supreme court said
these things are legal.

I'm surprised people haven't been lighting shoeboxes full of thermite on top of the
control boxes for these damn things.

Posted: 2/15/2006 4:55:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Seed Cams. Boring

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:19:36 PM EDT

[#2]

Just received a new Popular Mechanics magazine, in which the author says that
some intersections studied have proven to have increased traffic accidents
140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I hate sitting back waiting for someone else to make the first move.

But I don't know what can be done to stop this kind of crap.

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:23:55 PM EDT

[#3]

increased traffic accidents 140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I believe that. In Charlotte, NC the yellow lights now in some intersections with these cameras are very short, and I've seen quite a few people hit their brakes hard when they first see a yellow. I no longer talk on a cellphone when driving in Charlotte, because it's just too dangerous because of the way people react to these cameras.z

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:25:25 PM EDT

[#4]

Where are the cameras in question located? If they are on the signal mast arms, they are for vehicle detection, not red light running enforcement. I've been working in the industry for 16 years, you would not believe the number of people that think detecton cameras are for enforcement! BTW here in Arkansas, as far as I've heard, red light running cameras are illegal.

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:26:35 PM EDT

[#5]

A well placed 75gr bullet should take care of it

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:28:16 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
increased traffic accidents 140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I believe that. In Charlotte, NC the yellow lights now in some intersections with these cameras are very short, and I've seen quite a few people hit their brakes hard when they first see a yellow. I no longer talk on a cellphone when driving in Charlotte, because it's just too dangerous because of the way people react to these cameras.z

I havent seen a noticeable difference in the timing of the yellow lights of non-camera interesections and ones with cameras.

In CHarlotte, people just need to learn to slow the hell down and pay attention. There are some of the worst drivers I've ever seen zooming around that place

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:30:09 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Just received a new Popular Mechanics magazine, in which the author says that
some intersections studied have proven to have increased traffic accidents
140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I hate sitting back waiting for someone else to make the first move.

But I don't know what can be done to stop this kind of crap.

The cameras themselves have not done that, but sometimes a local agency gets excited with their new revenue maker, and they shorten the yellow light to the point where people going the speed limit cannot possibly stop in time for the red. The person facing the yellow then slams on their brakes and causes a rear end collision.
The cameras would not find near as much opposition if they were being used properly.

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:52:00 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
A well placed 75gr bullet should take care of it

From the opposite way the camera faces

Posted: 2/15/2006 7:55:24 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
A well placed 75gr bullet should take care of it

From the opposite way the camera faces

of course

Posted: 2/15/2006 8:02:17 PM EDT

[#10]

There are some of the worst drivers I've ever seen zooming around that place

Hey, no reason to get personal!

Posted: 2/16/2006 1:51:57 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
A well placed 75gr bullet should take care of it

No, the morons will continue to run the red lights! They seem to think it is accepted behaviour to speed up when the light turns yellow, or if the light has only been red for a second or two.

Posted: 2/16/2006 2:07:35 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Just received a new Popular Mechanics magazine, in which the author says that
some intersections studied have proven to have increased traffic accidents
140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I hate sitting back waiting for someone else to make the first move.

But I don't know what can be done to stop this kind of crap.

yeah those cameras are likely to cause rear-enders because people real realize at the last minute they are being watched and slam on the brakes surprising the hell out of that person behind them following too close. But, its not about preventing accidents, its all about revenue generation

Posted: 2/16/2006 2:09:09 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
increased traffic accidents 140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I believe that. In Charlotte, NC the yellow lights now in some intersections with these cameras are very short, and I've seen quite a few people hit their brakes hard when they first see a yellow. I no longer talk on a cellphone when driving in Charlotte, because it's just too dangerous because of the way people react to these cameras.z

not true, the yellow lght is timed to be at least one second for every 10 mph that the posted speed limit is set at.

Posted: 2/16/2006 3:27:55 AM EDT

[#14]

JFP,
Popular Mechanics mentioned that at least one traffic signal they investigated
had a 2.7 second yellow light, whereas all of the other signals in the area
had a 4 second yellow light. They even said that the reason for this was to
generate more revenue.

I wish I had a link to this story, but apparently they don't have this
on their web site.

ARkie,
These cameras have been in our local news for a while now.

You are right, we do have all kinds of vehicle sensors.
One senses vehicle headlights, and extends the time the green light is on if it sees a car coming.
One senses emergency vehicle IR strobes.

Not only to we have new "red-light" cameras, we also have new photo-radar speed cameras.
Right now, tickets aren't issued for speeding unless you are
going more than 12mph in excess of the limit.
Like I said in the original post, these cameras are at intersections where
the speed limit is too low as it is, so literally everyone speeds through them.

Hypothetically speaking, and for educational purposes only, shooting the cameras wouldn't
be nearly as effective as destroying the control box. The news here reported all of the troubles
technicians were having getting the wiring figured out. Since I drive these things a couple
times a day, I've seen the techs working on them. Talk about a "birds nest" of wires.

Posted: 2/16/2006 4:41:34 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
increased traffic accidents 140% since the installation of these damn cameras.

I believe that. In Charlotte, NC the yellow lights now in some intersections with these cameras are very short, and I've seen quite a few people hit their brakes hard when they first see a yellow. I no longer talk on a cellphone when driving in Charlotte, because it's just too dangerous because of the way people react to these cameras.z

not true, the yellow lght is timed to be at least one second for every 10 mph that the posted speed limit is set at.

Perhaps that's the way it is SUPPOSED to be. But there have been plenty of documented cases in which the yellow was reset, and shorter. There have been other cases in NYC, in which a couple of cops on patrol were getting the light to change quickly - I forgot the technical details offhand. While you may be corrrect, it isn't always so.

Another practical problem here in FL. There are a lot of "senior" drivers, some of whom get befuddled in the middle of an intersection. While you may have entered on a green, by the time they figure out what planet they are on, you're stuck in the middle of the intersection and it's red.

Posted: 2/16/2006 4:46:41 AM EDT

[#16]

I have head it said that many of these cameras are owned and opperated by independent private companies that contract with the city. The company makes the revenue. They send in "concerned moms" to city council meetings and before long they have a lucrative contract.

I don't know how true this is -- I heard it on some radia show.

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:10:26 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
not true, the yellow lght is timed to be at least one second for every 10 mph that the posted speed limit is set at.

So the light stays yellow for 5.5 seconds in a 55 zone? Certainly not anywhere I've ever driven. 2.5 seconds, tops.

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:11:02 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I have head it said that many of these cameras are owned and opperated by independent private companies that contract with the city. The company makes the revenue. They send in "concerned moms" to city council meetings and before long they have a lucrative contract.

I don't know how true this is -- I heard it on some radia show.

That is a known fact here in Davenport Iowa.
If they tried to hide it, our media didn't let them get away with it.
The company that owns the cameras aren't even in Iowa.
The company that owns the cameras get (I think) 60% of the revenue.
The remaining 40% goes to the city.

Worse, is that there is talk of them putting speed cameras on local interstates.

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:30:07 AM EDT

[#19]

Im an Iowian too and Ive seen the Cameras and believe me there are alot of intersections with Speed detectors already. Its all a money thing. I think Ill get those plastic covers for your Plates that can be seen with the naked eye but camera pictures come out blurred. Ithink Ive seen them, if not someone should make them. LOL Or better yet, I could just obey the law.

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:32:41 AM EDT

[#20]

There's going to come a time when the populace is going to take care of the camera problem. It might be five years or 15 years, but it's going to happen.

Posted: 2/16/2006 7:26:51 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
There's going to come a time when the populace is going to take care of the camera problem. It might be five years or 15 years, but it's going to happen.

It's already happening in the UK. Whoda thunk that there are actually some Brits that still had balls...

Posted: 2/16/2006 9:41:53 AM EDT

[#22]

I can defeat red light cameras simply by lowering the tailgate on my truck

Posted: 2/16/2006 9:56:43 AM EDT

[#23]

Study: Red-Light Cameras Fail To Reduce Accidents
http://www.wral.com/news/7118927/detail.html

POSTED: 11:50 am EST February 16, 2006
UPDATED: 12:40 pm EST February 16, 2006

RALEIGH, N.C. -- A new study suggests red-light cameras may lead to more accidents at intersections instead of making them safer.

The study, conducted by the Urban Transit Institute at North Carolina A&T University, looked at 303 intersections with red-light cameras over a five-year period. Researchers found red-light cameras increase many categories of vehicle crashes at intersections.

Attorney Bob Hensley said red-light cameras are not what they are pumped up to be.

"Red-light cameras were invented because timid, local politicians were afraid to raise taxes, but they weren't afraid to raise taxes if they could call it a safety issue" he said. "And that is what red-light cameras are. They claim that it is a safety issue. This study now shows that it is not a safety issue."

City Manager Russell Allen has defended the use of the red-light cameras in Raleigh.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:03:43 AM EDT

[#24]

For you guys with Quick yellows. I remember a story about a guy getting caught for running a yellow, he went and timed it, and found out that Federal regulations state somewhere there is a 4 second minimum on a yellow light, which made the court throw out all the tickets for their red light cameras. Can anyone verifiy?

Standard:
A yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN ARROW signal indication.

The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in the right-of-way assignment.

The duration of a yellow change interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A yellow change interval should have a duration of approximately 3 to 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.

Option:
The yellow change interval may be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released.

Standard:
The duration of a red clearance interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:06:32 AM EDT

[#25]

While most here know I have issues with the tax collecting traffic laws, this issue I split on.
I would argue against cameras and for LEOs on site but thats tough to do at every intersection. People getting tickets fro speeding at 5 or 10 over, seatbelts, etc... don't concern me, thats crap BUT red light running pisses me off to no end !!
I can sit an ANY intersection in town here and watch as people run a red 99.99999 percent of the time and laugh and smile as they go on through.
NAIL EM, YANK THEIR LICENSES AND IF THEY ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS THROW THEM IN JAIL !!!

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:28:15 AM EDT

[#26]

Gahanna Ohio put in Red Light Cameras and was busted for changing the yellow time to a less than legal time. An attorney got a red light ticket on purpose after timing the lights before the camera instalation.

He sued and appealed the ticket. He won both and all th etickets were thrown out. The cameras remain but the time for yllow is now up to state regs.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:32:03 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
For you guys with Quick yellows. I remember a story about a guy getting caught for running a yellow, he went and timed it, and found out that Federal regulations state somewhere there is a 4 second minimum on a yellow light, which made the court throw out all the tickets for their red light cameras. Can anyone verifiy?

Standard:
A yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN ARROW signal indication.

The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in the right-of-way assignment.

The duration of a yellow change interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A yellow change interval should have a duration of approximately 3 to 6 seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.

Option:
The yellow change interval may be followed by a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians, are released.

Standard:
The duration of a red clearance interval shall be predetermined.

Guidance:
A red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.

Baltimore City judges took it upon themselves to go time the lights and found them lacking, and at least for a while(they may still be) were throwing out all Red Light Camera cases where the defendant showed up. Of course you still had to weigh a day off from work vs. just paying the fine. So it still produces revenue with a 100% not guilty rate for those that show up to fight it.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/419.asp

www.highwayrobbery.net/ has a lot of info to get out of tickets or get refunds for previous tickets.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:41:39 AM EDT

[#28]

Buy some of that stuff you can spray on your license plate that stops the cameras from being able to read your plate numbers.

Posted: 2/16/2006 10:48:21 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
While most here know I have issues with the tax collecting traffic laws, this issue I split on.
I would argue against cameras and for LEOs on site but thats tough to do at every intersection. People getting tickets fro speeding at 5 or 10 over, seatbelts, etc... don't concern me, thats crap BUT red light running pisses me off to no end !!
I can sit an ANY intersection in town here and watch as people run a red 99.99999 percent of the time and laugh and smile as they go on through.
NAIL EM, YANK THEIR LICENSES AND IF THEY ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS THROW THEM IN JAIL !!!

Have you noticed that people will sit at a green or go S L O W L Y through the green, and then will run the red? People are SCREWED up.

Posted: 2/16/2006 11:47:49 AM EDT

[#30]

Within the last couple of years Houston has added these red light camaras amid much controversy. Now I saw on the news last night that they are thinking of adding straight up surveillance camaras around "high crime areas" to make up for the lack of police numbers. Some areas they are talking about include apartment complexes and downtown streets. Where will it end?

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:07:44 PM EDT

[#31]

Have you noticed that people will sit at a green or go S L O W L Y through the green

They're almost always Hondas. That's the new cool thing around here. If you're the first person at the red light, you know you'll get to go so you just wait until the yellow. Twice this week I was caught behind one of these jerks at the busiest intersection in the city. The cycle time is almost four minutes, so I was not happy.

About the 1 second per 10MPH rule. I timed six redlights today, and the yellows lasted between 2 and 8 seconds. The 8 seconds was in a 35 MPH zone in a very bad neighborhood that has a lot of dangerous drivers, so I guess the ridiculously high time was due to the # of accidents. The 2 second time was in a 55MPH zone. Maybe 1 second per is the general rule, but after the cops lobby to reduce the yellow time to increase their revenue and after locals lobby to increase it, the rules get thrown out the window.z

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:08:47 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Within the last couple of years Houston has added these red light camaras amid much controversy. Now I saw on the news last night that they are thinking of adding straight up surveillance camaras around "high crime areas" to make up for the lack of police numbers. Some areas they are talking about include apartment complexes and downtown streets. Where will it end?

Some day it will. Some day it will.

Posted: 2/16/2006 12:20:53 PM EDT

[#33]

yeh yeh, you all say someday in hopes someone else will do your dirty work. If you really don't like these cameras do something about them. One at a time. Recruit local youth gangs to sabotage the control boxes, elminate all cameras with a silenced (read: subsonic) 22 lr to the lens from the back of a van with the window down at 2am. One a night, never within 20 miles of your last hit. Don't miss.

Posted: 2/16/2006 4:32:35 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
yeh yeh, you all say someday in hopes someone else will do your dirty work. If you really don't like these cameras do something about them. One at a time. Recruit local youth gangs to sabotage the control boxes, elminate all cameras with a silenced (read: subsonic) 22 lr to the lens from the back of a van with the window down at 2am. One a night, never within 20 miles of your last hit. Don't miss.

Somebody piss in your cornflakes this morning?

Posted: 2/16/2006 5:33:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Within the last couple of years Houston has added these red light camaras amid much controversy. Now I saw on the news last night that they are thinking of adding straight up surveillance camaras around "high crime areas" to make up for the lack of police numbers. Some areas they are talking about include apartment complexes and downtown streets. Where will it end?

Harod says, ifn you not be doing nothin bad, den wot djou gots to fear. We be lookin out fo you.

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:35:35 PM EDT

[#36]

What I would like to know is: Do Leo's, Judges, Prosecutors, and Emergency Room workers get "Professional Courtesy" from the Auto ticket systems.

Serious question. Does anybody know?

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:37:31 PM EDT

[#37]

Can you turn right on red in IA?

Quoted:
Damn things are popping up everywhere in town.

Yea, yea, yea... someone will chime in and say that if everyone obeyed the law,
we wouldn't have to worry about them.

People are getting ticketed for running a red light for making a right turn on red,
and there is no stop line in that lane. People are claiming they stopped, but that
the camera only shows that they weren't stopped where it thought the line should be.

I hate the fact you can't face the accusor in court, because the supreme court said
these things are legal.

I'm surprised people haven't been lighting shoeboxes full of thermite on top of the
control boxes for these damn things.

Posted: 2/16/2006 6:57:09 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Can you turn right on red in IA?

Of course. Why?

You can turn right on red, after you stop and make sure you will not interfere
with traffic coming from the left. This is assuming a right-on-red is specifically prohibited
at that intersection.

Posted: 2/16/2006 7:00:31 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Within the last couple of years Houston has added these red light camaras amid much controversy. Now I saw on the news last night that they are thinking of adding straight up surveillance camaras around "high crime areas" to make up for the lack of police numbers. Some areas they are talking about include apartment complexes and downtown streets. Where will it end?

We've got a couple of those in town.

Police put up cameras pointing at "troubled" bars that seem to attract a high crime rate.

Even after being in operation for a few months now, they have not helped the police with anything.

Some people susupect the objective was to get the "trouble" to move to a different location.

Posted: 2/16/2006 7:02:51 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
yeh yeh, you all say someday in hopes someone else will do your dirty work. If you really don't like these cameras do something about them. One at a time. Recruit local youth gangs to sabotage the control boxes, elminate all cameras with a silenced (read: subsonic) 22 lr to the lens from the back of a van with the window down at 2am. One a night, never within 20 miles of your last hit. Don't miss.

First, posting something like this will lead to the thread getting locked.

Second, using firearms to solve a problem like this will only give the anti's more ammo to
take away our second ammendment rights all together.

Third, don't take out the cameras. They are too easily replaced.
Take out the control box full of all the wires. They are easier to reach,
and more of a headache to fix. Now where did I put that shoebox full of Thermite.