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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:01:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Last week at the range I had a lane next to a newbie cop.
At 7 yards he fired an entire box of 40 S&W at a standard red center bullseye and never touched paper. After he left, I turned his target in and got a 35 cent credit! 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:07:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Yes. Weapons use should be a much deeper subject than it is in the academy. I have seen what you describe many times.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:08:34 PM EDT
[#3]
InbeforesomeonesaysitwasprobablyWave
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:10:29 PM EDT
[#4]
"Weapons should only be in the hands of our highly trained police officers!"
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:11:12 PM EDT
[#5]
He must realize something isn't quite right with the training he received and is part of the reason he came to the shoot. He can only benefit from the additional experience and training. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:15:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Yeah. That damn capitalization thing is a waste of time, just like paragraphs. Screw making it easy to read.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:17:56 PM EDT
[#7]
capita.....captai....caipit......Them big letters are hard to work with. 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#8]
I was at a gun show this past weekend...and also not to cop bash, but...I checked in my 1911 and he was having quite a hard time trying to figure out how to unload it because the safety was on. I was even explaining to him that it wasn't going to open because of the safety and pointing to it, but it was just obviously something he had never dealt with before. Here this guy is, about twice my age and wearing a badge and uniform, I feel bad like I'm going to humiliate him, but what can I do but let him sit there and struggle. Anyway, I'm dissapointed...not with him, but the lack of training.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:35:22 PM EDT
[#9]
In most of the rest of the country kids go hunting with their dads (and moms, too), compete in various outdoor sports, and are quite comfortable with firearms. It is more a rural/urban thing. There is nothing about being a LEO that automatically makes you skillful with firearms. Certainly not the training, for the most part. Granted, training will hone your skills, but the the basics should already be there.
Give the guy a break, he probably grew up in the city. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:44:21 PM EDT
[#10]
No dogs were hurt in the making of this thread.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:46:40 PM EDT
[#11]
As a shooter, you all need to step up to the plate and help these guys. Cop or not, new shooters can benefit from wisdom of the experienced.
Who knows, maybe you'll be the hostage and he has to take the shot on your captor. Man up and help him out. Now if they refuse help, fuck 'em. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:53:52 PM EDT
[#12]
I was going to call BS but then I remembered the Hollywood Bank robbers and the cops that tried to stop them. 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:54:29 PM EDT
[#13]
The only kind of gun he's going to use anyway ...
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:57:01 PM EDT
[#14]
good point, I would rather help out someone who doesn't know what they are doing than see an innocent person get hurt due to their incompitence. Besides with a little advice maybe he will end up being a decent shot and a gun enthusiast. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 7:57:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Nothing to be disappointed about. Most LEOs are only familiar with their duty weapons and the weapons they typically pull off the street, much like most military members are only familiar with their assigned weapons. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 8:38:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Agreed, you folks should be patient with LE people. Many municpalities are cutting back on LE training to save money. He probably didn't get any special training on low-light shooting and the city fathers are hoping that their LE personal would learn on the job. The hobbyist gunner probably shoot more rounds per year than most LE people.
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:40:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Then you also remember the body armor the bad guys were wearing and the high volume of FA fire that was being put out by the bad guys. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:46:05 PM EDT
[#18]
You honestly should have tryed to help him. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:48:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Nah, it's more fun to slam a guy who cares enough about his pistolcraft that he's trying to get additional training on his own.  |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#20]
If only they had you and Your 30-30. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:52:15 PM EDT
[#21]
A friend, andfellow USPSA and IDPA shooter, of mine is a local cop and also a gun store owner. He also is a firearms instructor at a local college for the Pa. Act 120 class, this is where the municipal cops-to-be go for their training.
If you heard even half of the stories he's told us, you wouldn't believe it. 
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Posted: 2/8/2006 10:57:43 PM EDT
[#22]
When I went through the academy there was a handful of guys that had never shot a gun before. Luckily we had a fair amount of firearms time in daylight, low light, no light (flashlight) and cover/concealment.
The fact is that there is only so much training that they can cram in to the academy. And now with cultural awareness and inter-personal communications hours taking up that valuable time things like firearms and pursuit driving get cut back. The onus is on the individual officer, unfortunately, to get the additional training to be proficient with his/her tools. I commend that officer for getting out there and participating. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 11:07:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Common knowledge.
I doubt you’ll find many (if any) LE firearms instructors in this entire country who feel their regular street guys (not SWAT or such) get enough firearms and officer safety training. Budgets just don’t allow it.
You’re remembering something else. Firearms proficiency wasn’t the problem in the North Hollywood shootout. |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 11:16:01 PM EDT
[#24]
It ain't just the budgets. Many patrol officers feel that proficiency with their duty weapons is low priority, because they've "never had to use it," along with the assumption that once street hoods see the gun they'll comply. Heck, many of the raw recruits out of the academies here in CA think guns are "icky." |
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Posted: 2/8/2006 11:27:34 PM EDT
[#25]
In MO, i believe most LEs only have to qualify w/ there firearm only like 1 or 2 times a year............................I think???
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:41:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Rookie Cop = Very eager to learn about his newly issued weapon.
Now is the time to positively encourage him about the shooting  Quite Frankly ALL LEO's simply do not get enough firearms training and the ones in bigger dept's suffer even worse becuase of the sheer number of cops to train. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:45:04 AM EDT
[#27]
At least he is making an attempt to better his weapon handling skills. Help him out.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:49:57 AM EDT
[#28]
We had 40 hours of firearms training at the academy. It was not a combat course. Very, very , very basic.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:54:49 AM EDT
[#29]
+1 to the whole "budgets, gen. attitude of most cops towards their firearms" etc.
I'm sure that any regular member here has read my comments on the typical state of law enforcement firearms training. I can sum it up in one word: Pathetic. Sheep |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:58:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Man, that is really really sad, geez. You only got 35 cents? 
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Posted: 2/9/2006 4:58:58 AM EDT
[#31]
LOL. That's funny. Not really funny, but funny nonetheless. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:18:02 AM EDT
[#32]
The head instructor at the pistol class I took was a former chief of a small police force. Here's a few things he said:
- academies spend as much time discussing the legal aspects of a shooting as they do on how to actually use a weapon. - after they've been out of the academy for a couple years most police only fire their weapons during their annual certification. - he very much likes teaching civilians than police officers, because we are there by choice and are motivated. While the cops are forced to go and don't care. - in the previous "Partners" class all the police officers were from the same department. When it came time to do a house search in the "fire house", they all said how relieved they were that a certain officer had not shown up for the class. Even though they had done real life house searches with this guy they were afraid to do a practice one because they knew he would have to shoot his pistol. ETA: - if he took someone who has never fired a pistol and tried to get them to pass the police qualification test, it would take 8 hours or a most a weekend, useless the person was totally incompetent - by the time we completed the 3 day course we would be as well trained with pistols as most police officers. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 5:28:31 AM EDT
[#33]
No problem, I will.  If you had said 25 yards I might believe you, but get real. You could give a pistol to anyone off the street and after a "this is the trigger, these are the sights" intro they could get 1 out of 50 on paper. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 12:41:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Give the guy a hand and encourage him.
He's stepped up and tried to make himself better, lets not wear him down. Any chance to convert another badge to the Dark Side(tm) should be encouraged! |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 12:45:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Three guesses it was probably Wave? 
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:02:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Let me guess your parents didn't have any kids that lived did they? You do realize that more LEOS as a percentage of their population are far far better shooters than civilians as a total of their population. Would you really want to be judged as a driver by LEOS based on their contact with most of the "drivers" they meet? |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:08:13 PM EDT
[#37]
My thoughts too. A LOT of people in law enforcement today have never or very rarely handled a gun. GR |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:08:25 PM EDT
[#38]
Just curious, where'd you get that stat? |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:16:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Seriously?? Can somebody really be THAT bad at shooting? The first time I ever shot a pistol, i got at least 40 out of 50 shots in the scoring ring of a slow fire target at 50ft. |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:45:54 PM EDT
[#40]
When I had my run in with the ATF at the range outside of Tallahassee and she decided to leave because of our "evil baby killing bullet hoses" we went and looked at her target, ALL her shots on target were LOW, upper legs and groin ONLY. She was shooting at less than 15 yards
Maybe she was also a feminist *thinking*  |
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:48:45 PM EDT
[#41]
IMO, the average LEO is on par with the average non-LEO shooter when it comes to shooting/weapon handling.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:56:40 PM EDT
[#42]
 Oh that was funny, I had a mouth full of Ramen noodles and coke. That new keyboard will be 65.99
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Posted: 2/9/2006 6:56:40 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 2/9/2006 7:57:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Hitting a head at 60 yards, on a moving target, that is shooting back, and your using just a pistol is pretty hard if you ask me. 
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Posted: 2/9/2006 10:14:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Instructor for a large agency near where I live told me that they will give an officer 50 rounds a month to practice with. And every month it's the same 5 or 6 guys who pick up their ammo. And the other guys aren't shooting their own either.
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Posted: 2/9/2006 10:16:14 PM EDT
[#46]
We have "open range" days here but I dont take part. Why shoot the state qualification course when I can go out and train on my own in a more realistic manner? Just because people arent showing up for department sponsored training doesnt mean they arent training (though it often does).
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Posted: 2/9/2006 10:26:52 PM EDT
[#47]
I'll drink to that. Most non-LEO gun owners shoot as often as your average LEO. Box off bullets once a year or so. A very fair assesment NCPatrolAR. ETA: The "gun nuts" are a minority in the non-LE shooting world, just as they are in the LE world. |
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