Say 3 or 4 of us happened to be target shooting down near the border.  Like 4 or 500 yards from it and we see a mexican military Humvee come over and they have weapons.  For whatever reason we feel threatened and engage killing some/all of them.  Legal or no?

Don't kill and tell

Yes, leagle.. just dig the hole fast...

The way it SHOULD work? No bill. The way it WOULD work? You'd be in a shitload of trouble, unless you could prove they shot first.

seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail.

Never accept legal advice from someone who uses the word "leagle." What is that, like a lion-beagle cross?

What do you think will happen?

Uh oh... spelling nazi is here.  

Quoted: Never accept legal advice from someone who uses the word "leagle." What is that, like a lion-beagle cross?

It's kind of like a liger.






Make sure you police up your brass...

Quoted: What do you think will happen?

It wouldn't shock me one bit to see someone involved in a completely justified shoot get arrested and extradited to Mexico.

Quoted: The way it SHOULD work? No bill. The way it WOULD work? You'd be in a shitload of trouble, unless you could prove they shot first.

I'd have to agree here. It's a pretty grey area as sad as that is. It's ridiculous that we have to think about the legalities of defending our country from an invading military. Sad.

Quoted: Quoted: What do you think will happen? It wouldn't shock me one bit to see someone involved in a completely justified shoot get arrested and extradited to Mexico.

Just because you see them doesnt mean anything bad is going on..... So your talking about murder...

Now then, if they were terrorizing people and shot first, by all means blow all the fuckers heads off...

Quoted: seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail.

Dont forget your tactical pajamas and take lots of pics of the overweight middle aged men walking around loaded down with tactical gear sweating their asses of so you can post them and we can make fun of them.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you think will happen? It wouldn't shock me one bit to see someone involved in a completely justified shoot get arrested and extradited to Mexico. Just because you see them doesnt mean anything bad is going on..... So your talking about murder... Now then, if they were terrorizing people and shot first, by all means blow all the fuckers heads off...

 I have no desire to shoot anyone, even in self defense, if forced into the situation I'm doing my damndest to be the one that walks home at the end of the day though.  

Quoted: Quoted: seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail. Dont forget your tactical pajamas and take lots of pics of the overweight middle aged men walking around loaded down with tactical gear sweating their asses of so you can post them and we can make fun of them.

why do you think I'm looking for a new digi cam

We must repel the invasion like the Minutemen once did!!

I think I confused myself in this thread...

Quoted:
Just because you see them doesnt mean anything bad is going on.....

military folks on our soil .. without permission.... and you can say " nothing bad is going on?"

Quoted: I think I confused myself in this thread...

Welcome to my life

kill them all, when foriegn troops enter our soil we should take the fight to them, un,mexico,etc....take care of our borders!!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: Just because you see them doesnt mean anything bad is going on.....[/quote military folks on our soil .. without permission.... and you can say " nothing bad is going on?"

Is that reason enough? I mean legally, is that an armed invasion that people would be cleared for if they repelled borders?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just because you see them doesnt mean anything bad is going on.....[/quote military folks on our soil .. without permission.... and you can say " nothing bad is going on?" Is that reason enough? I mean legally, is that an armed invasion that people would be cleared for if they repelled borders?

gonna wait for them to rape someone first?


i dont know the answer to the OP question..

Long range bolt guns.  Leave no brass, swap out barrels when you get home.  Avoid getting caught or being seen in the AO.

Thats how you do it, supposing you wanted to do it.

i guess the right thing to do would be to ask them on camera why they are there..


guess thats a start..  

maybe not a good answer,, but its an answer...

Quoted: seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail.

You can start by reading this

Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Project
Minutemen are courteous to everyone with whom they come into contact, and never discriminate against anyone for any reason.
Minutemen do not respond to any taunts or harassment from outside agitators, and must never be present for duty or serve in any capacity if intoxicated.
Minutemen Observe, Report and Direct Border Patrol or other appropriate emergency or law enforcement agencies to suspected Illegal Aliens or Illegal Activities.
Minutemen do not verbally contact, physically gesture to or have any form of communications with suspected Illegal Aliens.
Minutemen follow the Standard Operating Procedures to the letter and spirit.
Minutemen follow all federal, state and local laws, understanding that we are being held to a higher standard by all.
Minutemen understand that, while our actions cannot stop illegal activities along the boarder, we can change world perception and national thought concerning Homeland and Border Security.
Minutemen monitor their behavior, the behavior of the people around them and the group as a whole to ensure compliance with the SOP and any instruction given by Minuteman Corps Leadership.
Minutemen leave no garbage behind and follow strict pack-in / pack-out procedures.
Minutemen respect the property rights of everyone, start no fires, never drive off road, and follow the directions of all law enforcement personnel.
By Chris Simcox
Preface

You are reading this because you believe that you can actively participate in one of the most important, socially responsible, and peaceful movements for justice since the civil rights movement of the 1960s. You are considering joining in this activist protest because you are done talking. You have debated, you have begged, you have pleaded with your government officials -- public servants whom you trusted to stand by the oath they took when sworn into office to protect the United States from invasion by enemies foreign and domestic. The human flood breaching our Homeland Defense is not necessarily the enemy per se; drug dealers, criminals and potential terrorists are, and they should be the source of any ire you may be experiencing.

You are considering joining the Minuteman Project not because of bias towards people from another country, but rather because you feel your government owes the citizens of the United States protection from people who wish to take advantage of a free society. We demand that President Bush, members of Congress and the Senate maintain an orderly queue of entry into our country. We are three years post September 11, 2001, and still our government is more concerned with securing the borders of foreign lands than securing the borders of the United States. Enough is enough. I apologize for applying such a bromide, but when the going gets tough, the tough get going. I come from a generation that has lost the ideal that we are a "can-do nation.” I cannot accept the weak excuse from our government that the problem is unsolvable. That mindset is un-American. We can and we will make a difference. We, as citizens, are the government, are acting within the social contract of our right to freedom, and we will apply our efforts within the limits of the laws we have created. Regardless of whether we agree with the constraints on our limited ability to stem the flow of crime across our borders, we will display the highest level of restraint, thus proving we are responsible citizens and that our character is consistent with our ability to stay within the boundaries of the law.

Are you willing to sacrifice a few days, a week, a month to help do the job that the government should be doing? If you choose to make the sacrifice and become the active majority rather than the silent majority, you will have accomplished more in one month than the sum total of all your years of complaining and demanding action from your public servants who seem more interested in working for people from other countries than they are in working for us.

Our effort will be tangibly effective in supporting the defenders of our border, the patriotic men and women of the U.S. Border Patrol. You will offer your assistance and become force-multipliers to assist their monumental task of turning back the tidal wave of people entering our country illegally.

You must be willing to accept the following plan, or you, as a segment of a larger group, are doomed to be remembered in history as representative not of the strongest character, but rather as the weakest link in our maligned and misunderstood group of truly patriotic nationalists. You must understand in the deepest ways the importance of our challenge.

You are here because you are willing to challenge our government to fulfill their constitutionally mandated responsibility, not because you want to fight them, but because you want to challenge them by fulfilling their obligation in their absence. You are willing to become force-multipliers in the absence of Congressional and Presidential will.

Composing letters, e-mails and faxes did not make an impression on our public servants. Now we will assert ourselves as citizen representatives of the government. We are citizens who set the example, of the people for the people and by the people.

We will succeed. If we are to send the message loud and clear to President Bush and Congress, it is imperative that we stay within the law. If one single individual steps over the line for their personal gratification, we are all stained with that irresponsible behavior, and labeled forever as a fringe element that embarrasses all who are counting on us to make this historic statement.

We must prevail, we will prevail. We shall overcome the effort by many to identify this movement as irresponsible; we will be victorious in proving the skeptics wrong. Our efforts will change the course of history and ignite others to stand with courage to make a change. Many are waiting for the outcome and will themselves be motivated with a new sense of activism; we will be leaders who will make a difference, role models who will influence future generations. Are you with us, Americans? If yes, then "let's roll"!

The Law

You must hold these truths to be self evident. There are restrictions and guidelines that must be followed to an absolute.

You will abide by the laws of Arizona. If you choose to arm yourself, you will do so for the purpose of self defense only; you will never have to take action to defend yourself, for you will abide by the rules of no contact and no engagement. (By the way, no weapons are allowed in the Coronado National Park, but we will not be working there, so no need to go any further).
No weapons in the San Pedro Riparian area near the San Pedro River. There are plenty of hilltops on which to perch, spot and report. Most of the time the illegal aliens will not even know you are there, and you always have the advantage of the high ground.

If challenged, you will physically remove yourself from the situation. At this point 'tis better to retreat and preserve the ability to return and fight another day. The idea is for your sidearm to remain holstered for the duration of your visit. There will be absolutely no need to ever remove your firearm from its holster - not for cleaning, not for show-and-tell, not for any reason. By never removing the firearm from the holster, never keeping it chambered and always keeping the safety on and keeping your hands away from it, there can be no accidents. End of discussion. Remove the firearm from the holster for any reason, and your group members will likely send you on your way back home.

Stun guns, mace, pepper spray are alternatives for personal safety, but remember you have agreed to abide by a no contact, no engagement policy, so your safety will never be an issue. Right?

Absolutely you will not bring handcuffs our other devices used for the physical restraint of human beings. You will not be coming to Arizona to engage in philosophical discussions. You will not be coming to Arizona to challenge anyone, any idea, any person -- your challenge is with yourself. Your challenge will be, simplistically put, to behave yourself. The mission is clear - Restraint, Responsibility and Character are the qualities that will guarantee success.

A word of advice: you will be held responsible, not just by law enforcement, but by the rules of our society, of mankind. You can be guaranteed that the first response towards any irrational or illegal behavior will come from within your group of compatriots. We will hold each other accountable. Any volunteer who even hints at illegal activity will be quickly ostracized from the mission and will be reported to law enforcement. You will be removed from the mission and will have forever shamed yourself -- you will not be allowed to shame the mission. Personal responsibility, accountability and temperament are the keys to success.

There has been much hand wringing, not just by the media but also from within the rank and file of potential volunteers.

Think about it this way. With the ideals explained in the previous paragraphs, anyone with the intention of stepping over the line will now realize they will not get away with it. Any possible racist, unstable or misguided element will now realize they will not succeed.

Why would anyone who does not agree with the tenets set forth even want to join the effort, knowing they will quickly be expelled from the activity? Those who disagree with the philosophy of this mission have now been dissuaded with caveats replete with everything they most likely despise. Those who don't agree are now making plans to stay home and cast doubt upon our efforts. Let them; for we are all better off without their participation, giving us yet another sense of gratification and desire for success.

The volunteers who have led the way are the good citizens who have joined the efforts of Civil Homeland Defense and who have succeeded in assisting the Border Patrol with locating over 5,000 people entering our country illegally. The volunteers have never made a mistake leading to harm or arrest by law enforcement. We know how to get the job done, so please defer to our experience as your ultimate guide. Our reputation speaks for itself. Facing tremendous opposition and skepticism, we have prevailed. Yet we now risk everything we have worked to achieve during the past two years. If one individual puts their selfish desires before the mandate of the mission, we all lose. We cannot allow such petty individual desires to ruin years and thousands of hours of effort to be wasted at the hands of one self-serving fool.

Volunteers will maintain a strict code of ethics and behavior: you will adhere to a no contact policy. Spot, report and avoid any contact with people entering our country illegally. No exceptions.

Why risk going to jail and ruining the mission by engaging a group of illegals? The time for that is not yet upon us. Remember, this is activism, yet it is symbolic at best. We know millions of illegals are here, thousands continue to come and nothing short of military intervention will cease the flow.

It's no big deal to let a group get away, for every group you locate; there are ten more who are getting through. Face it: there is not much else we can do. The idea is to become force-multipliers for Border Patrol. Our effort will be a shock and awe to the President and to Congressional leaders. If you are coming here because you harbor ill feelings toward the illegals, if you feel uncontrolled anger towards the government of Mexico or people who are fleeing economic disenfranchisement, you are advised to stay home.

Our efforts are not meant to stop illegals, our efforts are designed to send our elected officials a stiff reminder - they work for us first. Ignore us and we will continue to grow in numbers. We succeed this time and we will have thousands more who will follow our lead in future more interactive missions.

Experienced volunteers of Civil Homeland Defense (CHD) will be mentoring groups of novice border watchers who are here for the first time. CHD volunteers will consult, guide and share experience with new volunteers. CHD volunteers will continue to work in every way possible that will support the mission. Future efforts will likely involve the tracking and containment of groups of people who have entered our country illegally. For this mission, you will resist in every way confronting or attempting to make contact with illegals.

Every group of volunteers should have at least one video camera available and a person whose duty it is to operate it. The video camera is your insurance policy. Record any up-close encounter with the video camera. It is as much a tool for self defense as is your sidearm. If for any reason a group of people entering our country enters your area, you will politely wave, stand aside and watch them proceed on their journey. You may feel an overwhelming sense of frustration, but you will not act irrationally because of the feeling. Self restraint, discipline and personal responsibility must be uppermost in your mind. Be assured that every group you spot will be apprehended by the proper authorities. 99% of every group spotted by volunteers of CHD have been apprehended somewhere down the road. Your satisfaction comes from knowing you have located, reported and alerted the Border Patrol of illegal activity. The group will be caught and sent back across the border.

If a group or individual approaches you in need of assistance, provide it. Every group should have a first aid kit and extra water to offer a human being life- saving aid. Sometimes you may have a person come to you for protection or aid, offer them what they need, videotape everything. Assure them you mean them no harm and tell them you have contacted “La Migra” and that help is on the way. They are usually quite grateful for the assistance.

Patrols conducted during daylight are simple. Take shifts spotting with binoculars, spotting scopes etc. If you see a group, call Border Patrol. For Naco Border Patrol, the district number is 520-432-512. Douglas Border Patrol dispatch number is 520-805-6900.

Identify yourself as a MMP volunteer. Give them your location. Report the group you have spotted in specifics. Example.

"Hello, good morning, this is Chris Simcox with the Minuteman Project. I am at mile marker 5.5 overlooking the border road. I have spotted a hard count of 15 people who just entered the country illegally. They have crossed the fence and are headed up a trail towards the interior. They look as if they are taking the trail toward the mountains. There are 13 men and 2 women. We will continue to watch them so we can give more specifics to the agent who arrives to track them. How long do you think it will take an agent to arrive? If you need to call me back my cell phone number is... Thanks for your help."

When the agent on the ground arrives, give them the information and direct them towards the group. Other than that, stay out of their way and let them do their job.

If the agent apprehends the group and walks them back out past your location, stay out of the way. Video the group from a distance. You can protect the agent by not video taping his or her face. Do not approach the group even after they are in custody. If the agent asks for your help, provide it with caution. When interfacing with Border Patrol, remember, they are the good guys. Tell them you appreciate their duty to country. If they come back empty handed, tell them you hope they can catch the group farther up the trail. Never have a bad word for these guys and gals; remember they are attempting to do a job with one hand tied behind their backs. You will have to be satisfied that you can provide assistance with both hands tied behind your back. Spot and report; you are being affective just doing that.

Every team will consist of 4 to 8 volunteers. You will use FRS radios and cell phones. Hopefully each group will be provided a radio that will reach the command center. If not, use your cell phone to call Command and report how many people you counted, the time, the location and if Border Patrol responded. A log will be kept to prove our effectiveness and the effectiveness of Border Patrol. A compiled report will be shared with the media at the completion of the project.

Keep your radio transmissions to a minimum, no joking around or extraneous off-task comments. Stay calm, focused, stoic and on-task.

Spread out and maximize your personnel; take shifts spotting to relieve stress. Use the minimum number of radios possible to conserve batteries. Never stray out of radio contact with your group. Rotate the use of cell phones to conserve batteries. Your vehicles will be your command center. Bring DC connectors to re-charge batteries. Carry back-up batteries for radios.

Plan on no less than 8-hour shifts. We will organize relief shifts once we have a hard count of volunteers who have shown they will walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

Carry personal contact information in case of emergency. Ensure every person in your group is aware of any physical or health issues of individuals in your team. Plan for your comfort. Bring a camping chair or folding lawn chair -you will be sitting for hours on end.

Dress warmly, and layer for extremes from cold to hot. Bring plenty of water -2 gallons per person per day. Bring snacks and meals that can be prepared without fire. Hopefully everyone can stand to rough it for at least 8 hours a day: hats, sunscreen, medications for personal issues, tissues, toilet paper, a shovel for burying your waste. Respect the environment, clean up after the group. Make every effort to leave the land just as you found it or in better shape than you found it.

Never drive off-road. Stick to the roads and two-track paths. Park as close to the side of the road as possible, always leaving room for Border Patrol or emergency vehicle access.

Night Missions

Not everyone will be cut out for night missions. We will be looking for those few hardy volunteers who can stand the 12 hours of dusk to twilight. Auditory awareness is your tool for locating groups. Listening carefully while sitting quietly is the toughest aspect of night work. You will hear the group coming long before you can see them. Once you hear them, call them in to Border Patrol -- get the Patrol rolling to your location as soon as possible. The groups move quickly through the night. Night vision devices can be useful but not necessary. Some groups will be assisted with thermal night scopes provided by CHD. We will try to rotate them from location to location so everyone gets in on the fun. At times, groups will walk within just feet of where you are sitting. You have two choices. Let them proceed past you while remaining silent, or, turn on a flashlight, inquire as to who is there and watch them scatter. The latter tactic often helps to delay the group while you are waiting for Border Patrol to arrive. Under no circumstances are you to chase or attempt to give the group of illegal aliens any orders to sit down. The surprise of you being there with your lights if sufficient to send them a message that they should have taken another trail. Many times the group will scatter and run back to the border -- mission accomplished!

Use ear phones for radios at night. Try to remain as quiet and stealthy as possible; sound travels great distances at night. A cough can travel a half-mile away. Remember, your mind can play tricks on you at night. The slightest sound will be cause for your imagination to run wild. Be assured, you will know a group is approaching by their distinct sound. Once you hear a group walking through the brush the sound is indelibly printed in your senses.

There will be more tactics and suggestions to come during the next few weeks. There have been many tidbits of suggestions for equipment and survival offered already. They will be available on the website.

Quoted: Long range bolt guns.  Leave no brass, swap out barrels when you get home.  Avoid getting caught or being seen in the AO. Thats how you do it, supposing you wanted to do it.

I will not reference another thread where I stated I was in the market for one or an accurized turnkey M1A ....oh shit.

Quoted: Never accept legal advice from someone who uses the word "leagle." What is that, like a lion-beagle cross?

Quoted: Quoted: What do you think will happen? It wouldn't shock me one bit to see someone involved in a completely justified shoot get arrested and extradited to Mexico.

FWIW, the US has no extradition treaty with Mexico.

Ummm.

A foreign military inside our borders.......I think it would be our duty to kill them, if they showed even the slightest bit of aggression.

I assume these guys are running drugs, they certainly aren't trying to invade and conquer.

If they are drug dealer escorts.....fuck em. Shoot them on sight.

Quoted: Quoted: Long range bolt guns.  Leave no brass, swap out barrels when you get home.  Avoid getting caught or being seen in the AO. Thats how you do it, supposing you wanted to do it. I will not reference another thread where I stated I was in the market for one or an accurized turnkey M1A ....oh shit.

But then you'd have to find your brass

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Long range bolt guns.  Leave no brass, swap out barrels when you get home.  Avoid getting caught or being seen in the AO. Thats how you do it, supposing you wanted to do it. I will not reference another thread where I stated I was in the market for one or an accurized turnkey M1A ....oh shit. But then you'd have to find your brass

easy enough to do..........

85730

Quoted: Quoted: seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail. You can start by reading this Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Project SNIP

Thanks.  As I've said before,  I don't wanna get into with anyone but if I do it, I'm going to protect myself and those around me if the need arises.  They use pretty strong language to dissuade people from that and I understand why.  It would only take one incident to turn the whole thing south.  No pun intended.  I just want to be able to protect myself.

Quoted: 85730

huh?

Just scatter some drugs(which they had) around the area, leave no survivors and it will be considered proof of illegal drug smuggling, like a drug deal gone bad. Just be sure you dont lose any of your own guys, that would be hard to explain.


Dusty_C, I'll be free this summer, would be up for the roadtrip/target shooting out near the border. Im up for anything


Seriously

Quoted: Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Project Yadda, Yadda, Yadda

That was great last summer, I think its time to change the ROE

Quoted: Just scatter some drugs(which they had) around the area, leave no survivors and it will be considered proof of illegal drug smuggling, like a drug deal gone bad. Just be sure you dont lose any of your own guys, that would be hard to explain. Dusty_C, I'll be free this summer, would be up for the roadtrip/target shooting out near the border. Im up for anything Seriously

NO.  I have no interested in breaking the law in any way.  One of the reasons I'm interested in becoming a minuteman is to uphold the law that our government won't.

Quoted: Quoted: Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Project Yadda, Yadda, Yadda That was great last summer, I think its time to change the ROE

I do to but if I do it, I'll conform to the rules of the group I'm with.  If I'm not comfortable with their rules I won't do it.

Eliminating an invading force would be breaking a law?

Cause thats what it is, when you get technical.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: seriously ya'll.  A lot of people around here have been kicking around the idea of taking some vacation and going down to the border with some minutemen and none of us wants to go to jail if by some tiny astronomical chance we get into with them.  I'm interested in doing it but I don't wanna rot in jail. You can start by reading this Standard Operating Procedure for Minuteman Project SNIP

Thanks.  As I've said before,  I don't wanna get into with anyone but if I do it, I'm going to protect myself and those around me if the need arises.  They use pretty strong language to dissuade people from that and I understand why.  It would only take one incident to turn the whole thing south.  No pun intended.  I just want to be able to protect myself.

Edit: By all means protect yourself.

Quoted: What do you think will happen?

We would more than likely be a few members short of a squad.

Quoted: Never accept legal advice from someone who uses the word "leagle." What is that, like a lion-beagle cross?

Check this out.
www.minutemanofone.blogspot.com/

Question is, are you really willing to take on the Mexican Military single handedly with the limited firepower civilians can own?  

They have vehicle mounted and personal automatic weapons, most likely to be working in squads with the ability to call in backup.  

Not to mention our fine gov't will probably take thier side before they take your side.  Gotta maintain foreign relations, you know.

IMHO, It would take quite of few people to pull off a successful attack without any losses

Quoted: Question is, are you really willing to take on the Mexican Military single handedly with the limited firepower civilians can own?   They have vehicle mounted and personal automatic weapons, most likely to be working in squads with the ability to call in backup.  Not to mention our fine gov't will probably take thier side before they take your side. IMHO, It would take quite of few people to pull off a successful attack without any losses

I don't wanna attack anything. But lets just say in open terrain with a very accurate M1A and good concealment, vs. say 7 guys with one vehicle mounted MG and being in the open, I'd prefer my chances.  There are good reasons people fear snipers.  That's all hypothetical since If I was properly concealed, they'd never see me to shoot at me for me to say that I was attacked.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do you think will happen? It wouldn't shock me one bit to see someone involved in a completely justified shoot get arrested and extradited to Mexico. FWIW, the US has no extradition treaty with Mexico.

WTF?

The US will extradite US Citizens AND\OR Foreign Nationals residing inside its borders to ANY COUNTRY
except the ones that it believes will torture said object of extradition, even for death penalty cases
(you can bet your lives on that, or not, as the case may be)

It should never be an issue.  Our military should be there to respond with overwhelming force.  They talk about Homeland Defense but leave the border wide open.  

Jorge won't fix it and he'd send your ass south in a minute to appease his amigo.

Quoted: It should never be an issue.  Our military should be there to respond with overwhelming force.  They talk about Homeland Defense but leave the border wide open.   Jorge won't fix it and he'd send your ass south in a minute to appease his amigo.

+1 for accurate bolt guns....

In that case, I'd say you possibly could get away with your first shot, maybe even the second but if they are well trained and looking for a fight, they will spot you soon enough then pin you down with auto fire until someone could toss a grenade your way.

Losing situation.

Quoted: In that case, I'd say you possibly could get away with your first shot, maybe even the second but if they are well trained and looking for a fight, they will spot you soon enough then pin you down with auto fire until someone could toss a grenade your way. Losing situation.

you think the Mexicans are well trained or?  With the right equipment and concealment im sure they wouldnt be able to easily spot you...even after 2 rounds

Quoted: Quoted: In that case, I'd say you possibly could get away with your first shot, maybe even the second but if they are well trained and looking for a fight, they will spot you soon enough then pin you down with auto fire until someone could toss a grenade your way. Losing situation. you think the Mexicans are well trained or?  With the right equipment and concealment im sure they wouldnt be able to easily spot you...even after 2 rounds

I would be willing to bet that they don't send their slackards on their border incursions with the most powerful nation in the history of this planet