User Panel
Posted: 2/2/2006 5:50:05 PM EDT
I keep seeing all the libs around here referring to islam as a religion of peace. I have never, not once, seen any muslims stand up and say that are a religion of peace and condemn Bin Laden and his actions. So obviously libs here are their greatest ally. Now just because I haven't seen any muslims disassociate themselves with terrorism doesn't mean it hasn't happened, I know that. I'm curious as to what ya'll think. Does Islam as a whole want us all dead and the ones "helping us out" just using us for their own agenda? Or are the terrorist groups a seperate faction from true islam that is actually peaceful?
ETA PLEASE don't less this thread go south. I've seen a little bit of arguement on this subject and I'm curious to know what ya'll think. Don't trash them and get this thread locked please. |
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apparently you've never watched the news when they have american muslims saying their religion is a religion of peace, or the show on the discovery channel where this catholic guy went and lived life as a muslim for like 2 months or some shit.
all religions have fanatics. it just happens that muslims are a religion that the "west" has consistently shit on |
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From my readings/limited experience, I think that if you strictly follow the koran, it's kinda foggy as to whether we should all be dead or not. However, if you're a "loose" muslim (sorta like a really liberal Episcopalean or something), you can interpret/twist it to mean something else. Same with the nuts...they twist it to mean what they want. I will not say that the koran allows for universal killing of all non-muslims. However, there are some pretty cut-and-dry passages that do allow for killing of "infidels" in semi-specific situations.
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like christianity, islam got off to a fairly "enlightened" start. however, it is now going through it's dark ages, much like the middle ages in europe when "witches" and "heretics" were burned at the stake with the church's approval. in a few hundred years, islam will mature and things will be good again.
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Where did I put my Star Fleet universal translator? [looking in the couch cushions] |
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They need a reformation just like Christianity did. |
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Islam spread because their little band went around to every local city state and said convert or die; or if your Jewish it doesn't matter if you convert, we will kill you anyway. Read the history of how Islam spread throughout the Arab world. Its quite the bloody affair. |
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The Koran says 136 times that it's ok to kill "non-muslims". Religion of peace? There are a lot of sheeple in that religion. |
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you are incorrect. christians and jews (and Zoroastrians to some extent )in conquered areas were tolerated, but had to pay special taxes. it was the polytheists who had to convert or die, muhammad REALLY hated polytheism. muhammad did slaughter and enslave the jewish tribes of medina after the battles with the meccans, but it was for political reasons, not religious or idelogical ones. He had signed an alliance with the tribes, but they had betrayed him and given weapons and information to his enemies the meccans. that was SOP in those days and would have turned out the same no matter what religion they were. |
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in the end it really doesn't matter. fact is there is a rising division between muslim based countries and movements and what is not dar al-islam.
perhaps the tide will settle down. or perhaps we are heading towards wwIII. is way too soon to say. there is no islamic state or group of states that could stand against even 1 of our nuke subs. and i dont think that america is gonna convert. europe may find itself overwhelmed eventually if they dont do something about imagration. and then there are the chinese who don't seem to be tolerant of anything that threatens them as a society. what i think is that what islam lacks is some sort of hitler like person to crystalize the movement and give it some sort of coordinated direction of world domination. then they need the technology to pursue that vision. but seems that the lines are becoming more defined each day. still a long ways off though.... and i think there are some parallels about them being in their inquisition phase. but i'm not sure the wold wants to put up with their growing pains. |
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+1,000,000 |
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And I have seen some sheeple responses in this thread, apparently by those that have never read the Koran or any of the associated doctrines associated with Islam. The Koran not only states it is acceptable to kill non-believers, but that it is okay to lie and manipulate their way to a non-believers heart. Geez |
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Well, there ARE a number of muslims who have condemmed the terrorist attacts (and made public statements to that effect - shortly after 9/11 as well as later): Here are just a few (I couldn't be bothered to spend a lot of time searching): Shaykh Abdul Aziz al-Ashaikh (Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and Chairman of the Senior Ulama, on September 15th, 2001) Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi (Grand Islamic Scholar and Chairman of the Sunna and Sira Countil, Qatar) Judge Tariq al-Bishri, First Deputy President of the Council d'etat, Egypt Dr. Muhammad s. al-Awa, Professor of Islamic Law and Shari'a, Egypt Dr. Haytham al-Khayyat, Islamic scholar, Syria Fahmi Houaydi, Islamic scholar, Syria Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, Chairman, North America High Council Zaki Badawi, Principal of the Muslim College in London Mufti Nizamuddin Shamzai, Pakistan. King Abdullah II, of Jordan Mustafa Mashhur, General Guide, Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt; Qazi Hussain Ahmed, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Pakistan Muti Rahman Nizami, Ameer, Jamaat-e-Islami Bangladesh Rashid Ghannoushi, President, Nahda Renaissance Movement, Tunisia Fazil Nour, President, PAS - Parti Islam SeMalaysia, Malaysia Shaykh Yusuf Qaradawi, Qatar Tariq Bishri, Egypt Muhammad S. Awwa, Egypt Fahmi Huwaydi, Egypt Haytham Khayyat, Syria Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Alwani, U.S. Shaykh Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, imam of al-Azhar mosque in Cairo, Egypt Abdel-Mo'tei Bayyoumi, al-Azhar Islamic Research Academy, Cairo, Egypt Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, spiritual guide of Shi‘i Muslim radicals in Lebanon Abdulaziz bin ‘Abdallah Al-Ashaykh, chief mufti of Saudi Arabia: Shaykh Muhammad bin ‘Abdallah al-Sabil, member of the Council of Senior Religious Scholars, Saudi Arabia Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a prominent religious scholar in Qatar President Muhammad Khatami of Iran League of Arab States Dr. Abdelouahed Belkeziz, Secretary-General of the Organization of the Islamic Conference Organization of the Islamic Conference of Foreign Ministers Dr. Agha Saeed, National Chair of the American Muslim Alliance American Muslim Alliance American Muslim Council Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers Association of Muslim Social Scientists Council on American-Islamic Relations Islamic Medical Association of North America Islamic Circle of North America Islamic Society of North America Ministry of Imam W. Deen Mohammed Muslim American Society Muslim Public Affairs Council Afghan Muslim Association (Fremont, CA) American Muslims for Global Peace and Justice (AMGPJ) American Muslims for Jerusalem (Northern California) American Muslims Intent on Learning and Activism (AMILA) Arab-American Congress, Council on American-Islamic Relations (Northern California) Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Bay Area Islamic Networks Group (ING) Islamic Society of the East Bay (Union City, CA) Islamic Society of San Francisco Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) West Zone Muslim American Society Muslim Community Association (MCA) Muslim Peace Fellowship (Nyack, NY) South Bay Islamic Association (San Jose, CA) Zaytuna Institute (Hayward, CA) United Muslim Association of Toledo Shari'a Scholars Association of North America Now - are these SINCERE??? Your guess is as good as mine ... but to answer your specific question, there are PLENTY of examples of muslim leaders, organizations and clerics who have clearly condemmed 9/11 and terrorism. |
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Not to burst anyones bubble here, but, this is a battle that predates even Christ. It can be traced all the way back to the time when Abraham had two sons ( Isaac the legitamit son, and Ishmael the child born out of wedlock with one of his arab slaves) The power struggle between each of the two sons in attempt to win their fathers ( Abrahams ) favor caused the two sons and their followers to battle each other from the start and the battle still continues today. Read the Old Testimet, even the ROPers cannot deny what is written.... |
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there are very few religions that have as many terrorists as "islam"
<This portion of the response removed -- Defcon> |
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The problem with Islam is it still stuck in the middle ages, whereas the rest of the religions have progressed to a more civilized state
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+1 And the problem is that a lot of them would rather drag EVERYONE ELSE back into the middle ages with them, than come join us in the modern civilized world. |
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Umm, no. You are, unfortunately, flat dead wrong. To a believing, practising Muslim (Sunni or Shia), the Koran is in absolutely uncorruptable, literal word of Allah which was dictated directly from Allah throught the Archangel Gabriel to the Messenger, Mohammad (because no living man can hear Allah's voice and live) in Allah's own language, Arabic. Technically, the Koran even cease to really be the Koran when translated into another language other than Arabic. This plays into the hands of those Muslims practicing tiqyya (religous deception) and kitman (telling partial truths to hide the truth). An example is "jihad doesn't mean 'holy war', it means 'internal struggle'..." That's partially true, it depends on the context. In the most common context in the Koran, it means "holy war". It can not be "interpreted". To believing, practicing Muslims every word is literally true - though it is true that the earlier sure often are superceded by later sura (as in Allah later revealed a change in the plan to Mohammad). The confusion most non-Muslims have is that the sura are not in chronological order (in other words, the ones in the back of the book are older than the ones in the front). Judge for yourself.
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They have been going down hill after peaking at inventing numbers.
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And is real popular in 3rd world shitvilles. |
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If they condemn terrorism it is up to them to clean house and lose the extremists. Until they do that it's simply lip service. Stop harboring and protecting terrorists if you're against their actions. Period.
It's up to THEM to prove to ME that they're against terrorism, not for me to just assume they are because some Cleric released a quote to the press. The old saying "actions speak louder than words" comes to mind. ETA: I voted #2 |
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hooray. when NYC gets flattened by a muslim nuke, I'll be sure remember all the swell muslims out there. isn't it about time for one of you liberal wanna-bees to bring up the crusades? that occurred 500 years ago? |
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the united states is referred to as "the melting pot" so
lets melt some down Gary |
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when the koran talks about "unbelievers" and "idolaters", it's referring to the polytheistic arab religions of the time. it does not refer to jews and christians, who worship the same god as muslms, the "god of abraham and moses." the only passage there that is anti-christian or anti-jewish is 5:54. polytheists were considered heretics, and last time i checked no religion was historically friendly to those it considered heretics.
as i said before, historically polytheists had much to fear from islam, but jews and christians were generally tolerated and respected within the muslim sphere of influence. |
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I have a problem with a religion that makes women dress up in a full body dress, not to mention women cant own property or go outside without a male escort.
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Kiss my hairy Danish ass! I'm not saying I BELIEVE any one of them, but the question was whether any of them HAD stood up and said something - and that list is a (partial) answer to that question. Dusty_C asked, I answered. Don't shoot the messenger. |
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Yes, yes and Yasir Araphat too. But we all saw the dancing in the streets in stark contrast to the NYCers with gaping mouths and silent hand wringing. By their fruits ye shall know them. |
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+1 |
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For those who support the politically-inspired notion that terrorism is not condoned by Islam, that terrorists have corrupted an otherwise peaceful religion, consider this. The world’s foremost authority on the Qur’an is sheik Abdel Rahman. He was the senior professor of Qur’anic studies at Islam’s most prestigious university, Al-Azhar, in Cairo. Today, the sheik is a convicted terrorist, serving time in an American prison for the ’93 bombing of the World Trade Center. If the Qur’an espouses peace, that’s hard to explain.
These words come directly out of the Qur’an’s “Spoils of War,” surah: “Allah has sent you from your homes to fight for the Cause. Allah wished to confirm the truth by his words: wipe the Infidels out to the last. I shall fill the hearts of the Infidels with terror! So smite them on their necks and every joint, and incapacitate them, for they are opposed to Allah and His Apostle. Whoever opposes Us should know that Allah is severe in retribution. The Infidels will taste the torment of Hell. So when you meet them in battle do not retreat, for all who turn away from fighting will bring the wrath of Allah on themselves and their abode will be Hell. It was not you who killed them, but Allah who did so. You did not throw what you threw. Allah did to bring out the best in the faithful.” Using this reasoning, it was the Islamic god, not Muslims, who flew the planes into the World Trade Center. “So, fight them till all opposition ends and Islam is the only religion.” The truth is obvious: the terrorists haven’t corrupted their religion. Islam has corrupted them. The murderers are following their prophet’s example. And while most Muslims aren’t terrorists, all the really good ones are. They haven’t corrupted Islam any more than the S.S. corrupted Nazism or the Kamikazes corrupted the culture of Imperial Japan. We have been fighting a war against the symptoms, not the source. Prophet Of Doom |
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muslims generally didn't have a huge problem with christians and jews until this. |
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I cannot believe these threads have been tolerated as long as they have. This kind of talk is usually stomped pronto.
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Ummm I pick "B" Islam is a violent religion hell bent on world domination. Even the "moderate" Islamic nations have screwy wacked out laws. I want to be free, countries under Islamic law are not free.
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Yep, not the first group to wish the jews were extinct. |
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