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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:13:17 AM EDT
[#1]
make sure you have alternatives...
Getting the nomination is necessary, but the odds are still 3:1 against you... I got nominated out of Schwartzs district (PA 13)... and I'm at The Citadel now. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:15:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Anal lube, lots and lots of anal lube.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:18:27 AM EDT
[#3]
You'll get a pretty ring at the end just like the other grads. But don't worry, everyone else is making fun of you.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 9:53:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Piss em off. Go Marines after you graduate.
And yes, everyone else you meet WILL snicker behind your back.... |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:00:54 AM EDT
[#5]
If you want to go and are dedicated to make it your life, you can get in. There are "at large" slots available every year.
Are you a jock? If so, contact the coach of the sport you participate in. Even better, get your coach to contact the Academy coach on your behalf. Personel letters ARE read by those folks. Have you visited the academy? Do you have any idea what you are in for? Good luck. edit to add: I am not a USNA grad, but I did attend one of the service academies. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Canoe U.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:03:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Despite what Sylvan says (You'll have to forgive him. He's just an ignorant Woop USMA grad. He can't help it.
), USNA is the best place in the world to be from.It is, however, the WORST place in the world to be AT.  USNA '91. Wouldn't have it any other way.  There are at least three other grads on here that I can think of off-hand. One of them is a classmate of mine. Another was a 2/C when I was a Plebe, but I don't think we ever met. ETA: Anal lube, eh Sylvan? Go on! Tell them about the Ether Bunny at WEST POINT!
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:05:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Possible ring knocker.....
Just remember that it's not only the Officers that didn't go to the Academy who will be making fun of you, but all of the Enlisted too.... 
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:05:44 AM EDT
[#9]
I won't really consider myself a jock, but I do swim competitively for my high school and can hold my own most of the time. I was thinking about taking up rowing, or skulling, and deffinately planning on trying out for the combat at arms team. And yes I was planning on going to the Marines afterwards, Infantry to be specific.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:06:04 AM EDT
[#10]
Jealousy is a harsh thing!
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:07:53 AM EDT
[#11]
I lettered in high school (and college) and the academies considered me a "jock" FWIW. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:15:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Well I've lettered in swimming three out of the four years of high school, didn't letter last year because I went to school in DC for the year and worked for the US House of Reps for the school year as a Congressional Page.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:21:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Have you contacted the swim coach at the Academy? if not, send out a letter today and express an interest in swimming for Navy. BTW, former USHOR Page here as well, my Dad, too! |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:32:05 AM EDT
[#14]
It's amazing where you meet former Pages, I'm writing the email to the coach right now.
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Posted: 1/28/2006 10:37:00 AM EDT
[#15]
The reason I mention swimming for Navy: When I was in (not Navy) we were required to participate in "sports". Either a varsity sport or IM sport. There are some perks that go along with varsity sports, and it is the way to go if you can. Write the letter and put a stamp on it, my suggestion. |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 12:14:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Navy has a pretty good swim program.
I swam all four years at West Point. In fact, I think the last time Army beat Navy in swimming was my yearling year (1991  )If you swim strong, before you get your marine corps brain washing finished, look at SEALs or Navy Diving. Bunch of friends of mine went Army Diving and they loved it. I had the chance to go to SCUBA school and its a great life. What kills most people is the water skills. If you swam in High School you'll have those. I would say to get the Navy coach actively lobbying for you, you need at least J-Nat times. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:30:35 AM EDT
[#17]
What's this whole deal with everyone making fun/snickering at you? Is it because "real" officers enlist and work their way up through the ranks or what? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:43:14 AM EDT
[#18]
I graduated in '76, just before the first women
Some officers think that because they wear a ring from USNA that they are automatically better than other officers. Not true. Know yourself. Know your men. Know your stuff. Learn to lead by example. One thing you may not learn is to listen to your Chief (SNCO). Another is to take care of your men (and they will take care of you). Leaders are readers. You have four years there. Don't waste the time. Read everything on the Commandant's reading list. Start saving money while you are there (Roth IRA); you will have earned income. Ask parents, friends, whomever who want to give birthday or Christmas gifts to give you cash. Read about compounding from an early age at www.dowtheoryletters.com. Avoid the "Corvette Syndrome"; buy a used Honda/Toyota if you have to have wheels. Better yet, have you parents give you the car and the difference between it and a Corvette in cash. You will have saved them a bundle. ETA: Oh, yeah. Sleeping at Navy is like being on leave and sleeping on leave is like being at Navy. GO NAVY! BEAT ARMY! |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:48:34 AM EDT
[#19]
I taught there for three years, until I left academia for the private sector. Feel free to IM/email me about USNA. I taught some of the best students on the planet while I was there, and think it is a great opportunity, if you avail yourself of the options laid out before you.
Shooter |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:56:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Excellent point on sleeping. I slept my ass off at West Point. Its amazing i graduated. Rough time to be a JO, the late 70s. Submarine force was pretty underfunded at the time. Before the LAs and Ohios really came on line. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 8:25:07 AM EDT
[#21]
Graduated in '89, nomintated by the Hon. Tom Ridge (R-PA). Don't regret a day of it. Still on active duty.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 8:25:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Good place - when the cadets aren't robbing nearby houses |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:37:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Have you a link to Midshipmen robbing nearby houses? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:43:45 PM EDT
[#24]
How about a real military school
NORWICH University IBTNUB (in before the norwich u. bashing) |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:57:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Amen, brother!  Listening to your Chief is Rule #1. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:11:47 PM EDT
[#26]
No one "laughs behind your back." Well, not anymore than they would have otherwise. Do you ROTC and OCS pukes really think that we don't laugh at your buffonery and super-moto bullshit? (you guys are hillarious when you first get to the fleet). No, it's all in good fun - at least in the aviation community. Annapolis is the best place in the world to be from. Just isn't all that pleasant to be at. If you want to attend a service academy, then my best advice to you, should you be accepted is: Have absolutely no expectations. Do what is required of you. If you have expectations, you'll either think it's too easy and become complacent or you'll think it's too hard and struggle. The Academy is what it is and no one who has not been through all four years will know anything about it. ROTC is fine, OCS is fine. The Academy is better. The best officers I have known are Academy grads. Sorry if that offends anyone - it is simply my observation. Matt |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:46:07 PM EDT
[#27]
That's a funny quote coming from someone who never attended OCS or ROTC. I'm not sure if you're a Marine. ROTC who chooses the Marine route must also attend OCS. It's called bulldog and last six weeks. OCS depending on what type of commissioning source is 10 to 12 weeks. The Naval Academy stopped sending students to OCS in the early 90's after high attrition rates. It's sad when the "Hardest Military Academy in the World" cannot graduate 100% of its candidates from Marine Officer Candidate School. So an easy solution is to just let them graduate in their blues. That's why other officers and many of my Marines laugh at the Ring Things. I've been through two Ring Knockers. One was commissioned in the last class that went to OCS. He was also prior enlisted. He always told me the problem with Naval Academy officers is they Micro-Manage everything. I didn't really believe him because he was the complete opposite. Now I'm suffering under a CO and BN CO that run around like Corporal's. I guess the good Major knew what he was talking about. RS |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#28]
No, just memory. Looks like it was pre-internet. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 7:35:46 PM EDT
[#29]
They were all nice people when I visited there. Also, despite what I'd been told, the ladies I went jogging with (the guy I was attached to for the weekend had some bs meeting to go to and said "you'll be bored out of your mind, go jog with my neighbors. They're cool") were rather attractive.
My recruiting officer, or whatever it was called, however was an ass. I since have worked with a USNA grad (who became a C-130 pilot in the Corps) who was one of the nicest, most driven, helpful people I've worked with, and was willing to take advice from anybody. Also (despite me being an intern) he went out of his way to make sure I got credit for the work I did on a project with him. Never thought he was arrogant or the other stereotypes. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 7:38:18 PM EDT
[#30]
It's all in good fun. Academy Graduates are "sometimes" refered to as "ring knockers". I have respect for someone to make it to any service academy, and I have total respect for anyone who graduated from a service academy. That being said there are some academy graduates who let the whole thing go to their head. Of course there are some Mustangs (prior enlisted) who also let that go to their head. I would have liked to have worked for a guy like Zaphod. We could have gotten shit done.  |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 6:54:05 PM EDT
[#31]
No, it is based upon the product not the process. I am generally less (but not by much) impressed with OCS and ROTC Junior Officers than I am with Academy Junior Officers. After a few years, though, it doesn't matter much. The non-academy kids get their shit together after a while.
I am not.
Wow... is that six WHOLE weeks? I AM impressed.  And you wonder why we call you six-week wonders.
Oh REALLY?!? And do tell me where you got this info. Or is this just one of those "facts?"
Laugh all you like. You can thank me when I am saving your ass with an LGB.
Yeah... that is a problem I have seen in nearly the same proportion from every commissioning source. It is not intrinsic to only Academy grads.
Obviously you do.
Cry me a river. I have noticed that some of the biggest whiners are from OCS and ROTC. Matt USNA 2001 |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:00:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Good points, you obviously don't have any bias whatsoever 
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:27:10 PM EDT
[#33]
I can tell from the in depth review of my above post you are the micro-managing type. I'm glad I was able to take up some of your time. Rich OCS 2001 
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:33:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Thanks, shipmate.  ETA: I refuse to get into foolish arguments like the one above. I have seen phenominal officers and complete shitstains come from USNA, OIS, OCS, and ROTC. None of them have a monopoly on anything. That said, I have found that USNA grads are, in general, more dedicated to a career in the Navy than ROTC grads. It comes with having sacrificed your party-hearty college years to a place where Navy is a lifestyle rather than an extra course. Frankly, I wish USNA was even tougher and more dedicated to preparing warrior leaders than it is. THAT would REALLY make it more special than it already is. |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:41:52 PM EDT
[#35]
This ego-maniacal bullshit is why the expression "ring-knocker" exists. Shooter |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:45:24 PM EDT
[#36]
This is important rule grasshopper. No one can let you do yourself in like a Chief you have refused to let mentor you. CPO (RET), USN |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 7:58:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Perhaps. Or maybe it's because so many ROTC and OCS guys have letters in their files at home, regretfully turning down their application to USNA? Maybe it's because they KNOW that USNA is considered better than ROTC when the programs are compared, and therefore, as in so many other facets of society, you put down that which you know is better. I have never, ever, given ANYONE any shit whatsoever for having gone to a school other than USNA, but I certainly have taken my share of shit from them. "What school did you go to?" "University of Kentucky." "Cool." "What school did you go to?" "The Academy." "Oh! So you're one of those Ring Knockers from Canoe U, eh?" Can you say INFERIORITY COMPLEX? So go ahead and call me a ring knocker. I EARNED that title. Only a selct few do. I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. I only have to prove it to myself, and I already have. I treated my men like professionals. I looked after them, drank with them, and defended them against the idiots who made it to be Department Heads. I was once told that I was far too familiar with my guys, and this came from some dork VMI graduate who thought he was God's gift to the Officer Corps. His men hated him. Of course, we can't call THOSE GUYS ringknockers, now can we, despite the fact that their ring is the most ostentacious talisman you've ever laid eyes upon? Why not? Because our rings are EARNED, not BOUGHT. Where far too many of my fellow Academy grads go wrong is mistaking the ring as a right to be an asshole rather than as a symbol of a great accomplishment. Those who do not make that mistake become great leaders, both in uniform and in the civilian world. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 3:09:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Zaphod,
You have a point about VMI/Citadel ring-knocking. Just to be sure I am 100% clear, I am not AT ALL against the Academies. USNA put food on my table for three years when I was on the faculty before leaving for the private sector. I just hate that a small handful of grads are so obnoxious about BEING GRADS that they give the rest a bad name. To me that is the tragedy of the ring-knocker label. I taught some damn fantastic kids at USNA, and 99% will be FANTASTIC officers, but 1% will be fantastic at telling people they are grads and HORRIBLE at leadership, and will proceed to further any anti-USNA sentiments in the fleet. shooter |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 3:28:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Oh, in that you are 100% correct.  My first Department Head and my first XO were both fellow grads. I have NEVER seen two such utter pieces of shit in my entire life. It's an embarassment to know they got through the system.  Let me put it to you this way: There was a QM1 aboard my ship who, after knowing me for the better part of two years, was in a conversation with me one dark midwatch when I mentioned something about the Acaddmy. He looked at me in stunned horror. "I had no idea you had gone to the Academy! You sure don't act like the others I've seen!" Well, imagine: The asshole VMI guy was his division officer, his department head was the fat sack of shit I had for a DH, and our XO was the abrasive prick I mentioned above. Thanks guys! Way to set me up with the troops! So what did you teach, and when?
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:11:30 AM EDT
[#40]
first off, there are dickhead officers no matter which school you go to. i graduated from VMI and have served under horrible VMI grads and great VMI grads. same goes for the other schools. it doesn't have anything to do with the school; it has everything to do with the individual. a military college, or the military in general can only point you in the right direction. you as the individual are the one that has to take the initiative to better yourself. only then can you become a good follower and in turn learn how to be a good leader.
with that said, go to VMI! RAH VIRGINIA MIL! |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:42:50 PM EDT
[#41]
+1  Matt |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 12:51:04 PM EDT
[#42]
As if that's a bad thing? |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 2:27:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Oh! Come ON, now! CITADEL?
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Posted: 1/31/2006 2:34:46 PM EDT
[#44]
AS a back up plan, it wasn't half bad. ETA, "THE" Citadel.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 2:34:48 PM EDT
[#45]
I can't imagine paying to be a cadet. It sucked bad enough when they were paying me. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#46]
What if it was free? I got a free academic ride. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 2:58:11 PM EDT
[#47]
+87,000,000 I started tapping my wedding ring on my desk just reading this. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 3:21:11 PM EDT
[#48]
The reason your men will never respect you is because no matter how hard your school was, no matter how rough you had it, you'll never understand what it's like to be PFC "sawgunner" in Iraq. With that said, only a mad man would go enlisted with a sponsor to an academy.
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:21:44 PM EDT
[#49]
i originally went to VMI wanting a commission in the Marine Corps; however, i wanted to become enlisted first. i joined the reserves and went to boot camp the summer between my sophomore and junior year. soon thereafter i realized that i didn't want to go officer, i would just finish out my enlistment. i do know what it's like to be enlisted in a war and so do quite a few other VMI men that served with me and in other units. hopefully the ones that consider commissioning will be better for it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 7:10:16 PM EDT
[#50]
I haven't been to any of the service academies, but I do know that there are plenty of ass hats and wallflowers in ROTC units. Of all the guys I know (40), I would only follow ONE of them through hell.
I don't know a lot about the experience of the academies past what I read in "Absolutely American", but I get the feeling it's like any other organization. A handful of hard chargers that organize everything, a mid sized group of guys carrying out orders (if that), and a bunch of people that show up to eat the food, crap in the toilets, and bitch. Last year I wished to have accepted USMA, but I've been learning how to lead anyway. |
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