im self employed, so i think about this constintly.  is anyone sick of how much the government taxes the same dollar everytime it changes hands.  let me show you what i mean.

i am just using a general tax rate of 30% and using 100bucks to express my point.

joe shmoe earns $100, by working 10hours at $10/hour.  after the government gets their share, he is left with $70.  Joe uses that $70 to pay me.  The government gets 30% of my $70.  i pay a sub contractor $49, the government takes their 30%

$100 -30% = $70
$70 - 30% = $49
$49 - 30% = $34.30
$34.30 - 30% = $24.01
$24.01 - 30% = $16.81
$16.82 - 30% = $11.76
%11.76 - 30% = $8.24
$8.24 - 30% = $5.76
$5.76 - 30% = $4.04

after only 10 exchanges, the government has taken $96.16 of the original $100.  there is a slight error in rounding the number, so thats why there is a 20cent difference.  regardless, i understand about write offs and tax credits, but its always a lose lose cituation.  more you make the more you owe.  less you make less you owe, but the less you have.

after only changing hands 10times the government got 96.16% of joes original $100.

i dont know if i am making any sense, im getting too pissed off looking at these numbers.  why is this legal? am i missing something here?  it just seems like a viscous cycle, the government is making so much money on the constant recycling of that same freaking dollar.

Quoted:but its always a loose loose cituation.

Oh shit, now you've done it!

Actually, I'm A-O-K with the government taxing me.  I'm even OK with how much they tax me.  I'm not OK with what they are spending the money on.

If they actually used the money for police/rescue/military and for other legitimate reasons for which we have .gov, then I would be OK with it:  "We need 200 billion dollars for an attack on Iranian nuclear processing plants."  Fine.  Since a lot (? majority) of the money is spent on non-essential pork . . .

you get the crap spelling award!

Quoted: Quoted:but its always a loose loose cituation. Oh shit, now you've done it!

hah that made me laugh, its fixed now a**hole

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:but its always a loose loose cituation. Oh shit, now you've done it! hah that made me laugh, its fixed now a**hole

ETA a more serious answer to your question.

How do you think the gov't can afford to pay for the programs for those who can't work, don't want to work, and won't work.  Babies gotta eat, you know - and you and I pay for it.

What I pay in federal income tax could easily raise a family of 3 or 4.  

I, and likely you, are the ones who are funding the majority of this country.


Bewar teh spellling Nazis' are lurking klose bye...

ETA: Its "Situation" dude...

Yes, we are pizzed too

I don't think that all transactions are taxed at that rate
some of the transactions are materials..........8%?

Here that sound?...................................................................
Yep, that's what I thought it was!!!!!





A big can of worms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Taxes?
Don't get me started!!!!
Every f**cking time I open my check I feel like I was subjected to "Dry anal rape".

Some taxes are needed, but I am with you.  It would not bother me so much if the government didn't waste so much of the money.

Quoted: hah that made me laugh, its fixed now a**hole

ETA a more serious answer to your question.

a serious response would be nice.

Quoted: Yes, we are pizzed too I don't think that all transactions are taxed at that rate some of the transactions are materials..........8%?

i understand materials and such are taxed at a lower rate, but im not talking about that.  i can write off materials which isnt taxed again.  my material costs dont do me any good or any harm.  im talking about my net income.  what you and i and everyone else walks out the door with.  it just gets taxed again and again

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, we are pizzed too I don't think that all transactions are taxed at that rate some of the transactions are materials..........8%? i understand materials and such are taxed at a lower rate, but im not talking about that.  i can write off materials which isnt taxed again.  my material costs dont do me any good or any harm.  im talking about my net income.  what you and i and everyone else walks out the door with.  it just gets taxed again and again

Okay, assuming near equal income rates your model might hold up

I was talking today to a co-worker about the hidden taxes
when you buy a battery or tire you pay tax and an extra "fee"(tax)
for disposal or whatever bs reason they care to label it as

Anyone read their telephone bill lately? They have done a couple of exposes on it
and the fees(taxes) are given names that completely HIDE what the tax represents

What really burns me up is how they spend the money that they "harvest" from us

They give it away by the boatload to almost every country in the world
they give it away to illegals and actually pay their rent, medicaid, babysitters and food
(thats why they are able to afford new cars and buy houses, because we basically pay for it)
they load bills with pork and say........we couldn't vote against a bill we worked so hard to pass
it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.............

i have $100 bucks.  i spend 50 on material, 25 on gas, 25 on tools.  i can write all that off.  i get taxed 0, but i also have 0.

$50bucks goes to the lumber yard, they write off $40 of it, $10 of it is profit that gets taxed 30%.  now he has $7 out the door.  the $40 that went to his supplier, he writes off $30 so he has $10 profit, that gets taxed 30%.  it never ends

part of my original 100bucks has been taxed over and over and over again.

Quoted: Okay, assuming near equal income rates your model might hold up I was talking today to a co-worker about the hidden taxes when you buy a battery or tire you pay tax and an extra "fee"(tax) for disposal or whatever bs reason they care to label it as Anyone read their telephone bill lately? They have done a couple of exposes on it and the fees(taxes) are given names that completely HIDE what the tax represents What really burns me up is how they spend the money that they "harvest" from us They give it away by the boatload to almost every country in the world they give it away to illegals and actually pay their rent, medicaid, babysitters and food (thats why they are able to afford new cars and buy houses, because we basically pay for it) they load bills with pork and say........we couldn't vote against a bill we worked so hard to pass it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.............

i just wanted to generalize the tax rate,  30% is a preety good average.

dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already.

Quoted: Quoted: Okay, assuming near equal income rates your model might hold up I was talking today to a co-worker about the hidden taxes when you buy a battery or tire you pay tax and an extra "fee"(tax) for disposal or whatever bs reason they care to label it as Anyone read their telephone bill lately? They have done a couple of exposes on it and the fees(taxes) are given names that completely HIDE what the tax represents What really burns me up is how they spend the money that they "harvest" from us They give it away by the boatload to almost every country in the world they give it away to illegals and actually pay their rent, medicaid, babysitters and food (thats why they are able to afford new cars and buy houses, because we basically pay for it) they load bills with pork and say........we couldn't vote against a bill we worked so hard to pass it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on............. i just wanted to generalize the tax rate,  30% is a preety good average. dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already.

Yup, THAT IS double taxation
(why am I smiling?)

Quoted: im self employed, so i think about this constintly.  is anyone sick of how much the government taxes the same dollar everytime it changes hands.  let me show you what i mean. i am just using a general tax rate of 30% and using 100bucks to express my point. joe shmoe earns $100, by working 10hours at $10/hour.  after the government gets their share, he is left with $70.  Joe uses that $70 to pay me.  The government gets 30% of my $70.  i pay a sub contractor $49, the government takes their 30% $100 -30% = $70 $70 - 30% = $49 $49 - 30% = $34.30 $34.30 - 30% = $24.01 $24.01 - 30% = $16.81 $16.82 - 30% = $11.76 %11.76 - 30% = $8.24 $8.24 - 30% = $5.76 $5.76 - 30% = $4.04

That's how paypal works too

Quoted: Yup, THAT IS double taxation (why am I smiling?)

it doesnt just end at double.  any profit your telephone company makes, that also becomes taxed.  now all their employees pay taxes on their income which was generated from your taxed income.

Quoted: Here that sound?................................................................... Yep, that's what I thought it was!!!!! A big can of worms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Taxes? Don't get me started!!!! Every f**cking time I open my check I feel like I was subjected to "Dry anal rape".

I feel the exact same way! I can't believe you started this on a Friday night! There goes my weekend!!!


naaa...but seriously...taxes are out of control!

Quoted: That's how paypal works too

i only use paypal if there is no credit cards involved.  if you use just a bank account rather then a credit card its free.  however if you want to withdraw from your paypal account you wait 3-5days, and in those 3-5days paypal uses your money to make money.  kind of like the government when they withhold taxes from your paycheck,  you are giving them an intrest free loan.

Quoted: I feel the exact same way! I can't believe you started this on a Friday night! There goes my weekend!!! naaa...but seriously...taxes are out of control!

im just trying to get pumped up to do some power drinking tonight, what better way then to get pissed off at something that you cant control.

edit - jk, thinking about this only makes me want to goto the range and blast through a few hundred rounds

All I know is I am pissed at the poor return on my contibutions.

dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already.

Yep - I own an alarm company. You don't pay tax on the install if you sign a Capitol Improvement form. Guess what - I paid tax on the parts, which was figured into the bill.

Fairtax.org

Tell me about it , my mortgage payment just went up another $70 a month        

Quoted: Fairtax.org

That's better.

Quoted: All I know is I am pissed at the poor return on my contibutions.

i totally agree, after you add up how much the governement receives just for letting us use its currency its insane.  the taxing cycle is just insane.  i make money its taxed. whats left over, someone else gets that money. its taxed, what is left over for him it gets taxed

imagine if we returned to the barter system.  

Quoted: dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already. Yep - I own an alarm company. You don't pay tax on the install if you sign a Capitol Improvement form. Guess what - I paid tax on the parts, which was figured into the bill.

it doesnt get charged with sales tax, but dont forget you just turned that persons taxed income into your  income which in turn you owe 30%.  you spend 70% of that on other things that get taxed and taxed and taxed

Quoted: Quoted: dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already. Yep - I own an alarm company. You don't pay tax on the install if you sign a Capitol Improvement form. Guess what - I paid tax on the parts, which was figured into the bill. it doesnt get charged with sales tax, but dont forget you just turned that persons taxed income into your  income which in turn you owe 30%.  you spend 70% of that on other things that get taxed and taxed and taxed

Yes, but I make my SUV payment, insurance payment, and whatever else I can think of into a pre-tax business expense.

I owe 30% on whatever I can't figure out how to hide (when I draw it out of the business and spend it).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: dont forget to mention that all those bills you are paying that have taxes built into them, you are paying that with taxed money already. Yep - I own an alarm company. You don't pay tax on the install if you sign a Capitol Improvement form. Guess what - I paid tax on the parts, which was figured into the bill. it doesnt get charged with sales tax, but dont forget you just turned that persons taxed income into your  income which in turn you owe 30%.  you spend 70% of that on other things that get taxed and taxed and taxed Yes, but I make my SUV payment, insurance payment, and whatever else I can think of into a pre-tax business expense. I owe 30% on whatever I can't figure out how to hide (when I draw it out of the business and spend it).

right, i do the same exact thing, but how do you get ahead.  do you either buy a new 30,000 truck and write that off, or keep 30,000 in profit and pay 30% on it.  what if i already have a perfectly good truck only a few years old.  or do i want to give the government 10k and still drive my current truck.  the more you make the more you pay.  but thats not my point.  everything is taxed multiple times.

whatever amount you end up leaving with its going to be taxed some more.  then it will filter through the channels and that will get taxed some more and so on and so on.  on the same 100 dollar bill the governement filters out some percent everytime it changes hands.  how many times does it have to change hands to make $100?