If your on your own boat, in the middle of the ocean....  what is/is not legal?  what about firearms restrictions?  What if you get your ship/boat registered under a different countries flag...?

Curious..

As I understand it, outside of the boundaries of countries, there aren't many laws.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can get away with murder.

There was a guy who gained ownership of a platform off the coast of the UK and declared it to be an independent nation.

itd be neat to have an oil rig, and on it build a bunch of FA type firearms, itd be quite the...excursion for us gun loving enthusists,...save a lot of $$$ building them than buying a FA AK for $25k or so.

Quoted: There was a guy who gained ownership of a platform off the coast of the UK and declared it to be an independent nation.

The Principality of Sealand



A great place to host internet servers that serve, via satelite,  what would be illegal in most countries.

Quoted: As I understand it, outside of the boundaries of countries, there aren't many laws. Of course, that doesn't mean you can get away with murder. There was a guy who gained ownership of a platform off the coast of the UK and declared it to be an independent nation.

It's Sealand


www.sealandgov.com/

ETA: Damnit beaten to the punch.

Monkey knife fights?  Legal.

Quoted: Monkey knife fights?  Legal.

[US Coast Guard] Come closer, we can't hear you. [/US Coast Guard]

Quoted: Monkey knife fights?  Legal.

Furious George, what have they done to you?  Smithers, we're going to need most of your skin.

Quoted: Quoted: There was a guy who gained ownership of a platform off the coast of the UK and declared it to be an independent nation. The Principality of Sealand upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/1/1d/Sealand.jpg A great place to host internet servers that serve, via satelite,  what would be illegal in most countries.

Such as?  You kiddie porn perv!!!!!

That platform looks a little old and run down.  I wonder if they have a budget deficit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There was a guy who gained ownership of a platform off the coast of the UK and declared it to be an independent nation. The Principality of Sealand upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/1/1d/Sealand.jpg A great place to host internet servers that serve, via satelite,  what would be illegal in most countries. Such as?  You kiddie porn perv!!!!!

haha thats horrible

i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand?

Quoted: i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand?

nothing haha


Arfcom outing? jk

Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy.

Lebrew

Quoted: i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand?

Yarrrr!  Who be the scallywag that runs this sorry excuse fer an independant nation? Yarrr!

Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy.

Lebrew

Quoted: i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand?

It already happened once by some Dutch and Germans.  The owners retook the platform by force and held the evildoers as prisoners of war (under Geneva conventions, though I doubt Sealand is a signatory), forcing the Germans to send a diplomat to sue for their release.  One of the baddys was a Sealand passport holder so they charged that guy with treason.  Don't believe he was executed though.

Quoted: Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy. Lebrew

And that nation could own machine guns.

And ARFCOMers could be named as diplomats. And we could thus own said machine guns, pay no taxes....sweeeeet!!!

Sign me up.

Quoted: Quoted: i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand? It already happened once by some Dutch and Germans.  The owners retook the platform by force and held the evildoers as prisoners of war (under Geneva conventions, though I doubt Sealand is a signatory), forcing the Germans to send a diplomat to sue for their release.  One of the baddys was a Sealand passport holder so they charged that guy with treason.  Don't believe he was executed though.

ya they let him go.  we could take over Sealand pretty easily id assume haha, convert the servers on the rig to run the forums...itd work out well im sure  jk haha

Quoted: Quoted: Monkey knife fights?  Legal. [US Coast Guard] Come closer, we can't hear you. [/US Coast Guard]

A team of Navy SEALs is on the way!

Quoted: Quoted: Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy. Lebrew And that nation could own machine guns. And ARFCOMers could be named as diplomats. And we could thus own said machine guns, pay no taxes....sweeeeet!!! Sign me up.

exactly what im getting at...would it be possible ot setup a new nation but yet retain your US citizenship?  dual citizenship could work out very well

Quoted: i wonder what would happen if some one invaded and took over sealand?

they would have to establish a reservation for the nations current inhabitants.  The upside - there would be gambling and tax free smokes not too far away.

No taxes on the smokes but the shipping costs might bite you.

In general look here for Law of the Sea issues.

www.admiraltylawguide.com/conven/unclostable.html

Article  91. Nationality of ships

1. Every State shall fix the conditions for the grant of its  nationality to ships, for the registration of ships in its territory,  and for the right to fly its flag. Ships have the nationality of the  State whose flag they are entitled to fly. There must exist a genuine  link between the State and the ship.

2. Every State shall issue to ships to which it has granted the right to fly its flag documents to that effect.

Article  92. Status of ships

1. Ships shall sail under the flag of one State only and, save in  exceptional cases expressly provided for in international treaties or  in this Convention, shall be subject to its exclusive jurisdiction on  the high seas. A ship may not change its flag during a voyage or while  in a port of call, save in the case of a real transfer of ownership or  change of registry.

2. A ship which sails under the flags of two or more States, using  them according to convenience, may not claim any of the nationalities  in question with respect to any other State, and may be assimilated to  a ship without nationality.



In general switching your flag in view of a warship or other law enforcement vessel may just get you immediately boarded, and from personal experience, ON THE HIGH SEA or INTERNATIONAL WATERS -if a USN vessel wants to board you at sea in the event it feels it is necessary.  We pick up the "Red Phone" call a cerrtain command center and relate the circumstances and the flag the ship is flying.  That Command Center calls the Embassy of the ships flag and relates the circumstances for boarding, and with very few exceptions gets permission. If they come back and say that isn't out ship.  That almost certainly means boarding will follow shortly.

In TERRITORIAL WATERS, Maritime Exclusion Zones, etc, it's different, in territorial waters, the country who claims the waters can extend permission to us to board any ship we please, in a Maritime Exclusion Zone (Non-territorial waters) (or similar area generally in areas of hostilities/blockades, etc) we can board and search at will,

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Monkey knife fights?  Legal. [US Coast Guard] Come closer, we can't hear you. [/US Coast Guard] A team of  **GUN SHOW*** Navy SEALs is on the way!

Fixed it for ya.  

Quoted: Of course, that doesn't mean you can get away with murder.

Well if you can't get away with white slavery, what is the fun of being in international waters???

ETA:

What the hey? I'm looking at the Sealand history on Wiki, they've already had a civil war!

(Waveland was declared an independent nation by Greenpeace on the island of Rockall, but there are four other countries fighting over that one)

NTM

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy. Lebrew And that nation could own machine guns. And ARFCOMers could be named as diplomats. And we could thus own said machine guns, pay no taxes....sweeeeet!!! Sign me up. exactly what im getting at...would it be possible ot setup a new nation but yet retain your US citizenship?  dual citizenship could work out very well

Two things here. Notice the cannon in the picture.

As a US citizen you may not have dual citizenship. And before all of you I know so and so who's a dual citizen jump in, that is an accident of birth. Applying for or gaining citizenship in another country automatically makes you a non-citizen. Serving in the armed forces of another nation automatically makes you a non-citizen.

Quoted: Quoted: Of course, that doesn't mean you can get away with murder. Well if you can't get away with white slavery, what is the fun of being in international waters??? ETA: petoria.net/images/4ever.jpg

Can't touch me![/peter]

Quoted: Serving in the armed forces of another nation automatically makes you a non-citizen.

Close

Holding office in the armed forces of another nation (NCO/Officer) is a problem. Fortunately, I never got higher than Trooper, 3Star. (PFC equivalent).

NTM

That does it, ARFCOM is conquering Sealand and using it to sell guns, ammo, and booze to the world.

Quoted: Quoted: Serving in the armed forces of another nation automatically makes you a non-citizen. Close Holding office in the armed forces of another nation (NCO/Officer) is a problem. Fortunately, I never got higher than Trooper, 3Star. (PFC equivalent). NTM

Where?

-K

Ireland, wasn't it?

Quoted: Quoted: Serving in the armed forces of another nation automatically makes you a non-citizen. Close Holding office in the armed forces of another nation (NCO/Officer) is a problem. Fortunately, I never got higher than Trooper, 3Star. (PFC equivalent). NTM

Thanks for the correction. This came up when I was offered a commission in the NZRAF. Losing my US citizenship along with the having to serve 15 years before I could be come a kiwi citizen made this a non-player for me.

We could take 'em.

Quoted: We could take 'em.

I'm willing to bet we could take a LOT of third world or just plain small countries if we really wanted to.

Quoted: Quoted: We could take 'em. I'm willing to bet we could take a LOT of third world or just plain small countries if we really wanted to.

I hear Luxumburg is nice this time of year...

Disney owns it's own private island..............

Quoted: Quoted: We could take 'em. I'm willing to bet we could take a LOT of third world or just plain small countries if we really wanted to.

Arfcomistan.  

Quoted: That does it, ARFCOM is conquering Sealand and using it to sell guns, ammo, and booze to the world.

+ Hookers and blow!

Quoted: Quoted: Im sure there has to be some defunct oil platform in the Gulf we could buy. Lebrew And that nation could own machine guns. And ARFCOMers could be named as diplomats. And we could thus own said machine guns, pay no taxes....sweeeeet!!! Sign me up.

Do we get diplomatic immunity when we travel??

Quoted: Quoted: We could take 'em. I'm willing to bet we could take a LOT of third world or just plain small countries if we really wanted to.

But why would we want to?

All this big talk, and we don't seem to be able to retake our own country.

So what kind of military would you want for your own Arfcom island?

What was this thread about?

Quoted: That does it, ARFCOM is conquering Sealand and using it to sell guns, ammo, and booze to the world.

We'ld have to figure a watch rotation, I don't think we'ld all fit.  And it could get real unpleasant with all the cigar smokers and gas passers.  A massive explosion

ARFCOM island would have 3 homely women and 30,000 men. im afraid an acute case of "teh ghey" would sweep the island in short order. guys who play dupe police or make more than 20 posts per day will probably convert early having never made the sex with a woman anyway.


no arfcom island for me thanks.

Quoted: ARFCOM island would have 3 homely women and 30000 men. im afraid an acute case of "teh ghey" would sweep the island in short order. guys who play dupe police or make more than 20 posts per day will probably convert early having never made the sex with a woman. no arfcom island for me thanks.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We could take 'em. I'm willing to bet we could take a LOT of third world or just plain small countries if we really wanted to. But why would we want to? All this big talk, and we don't seem to be able to retake our own country.

Direct conflict is almost always easier to deal with than covert back stabbing.

Lock and Load.

Quoted: ARFCOM island would have 3 homely women and 30000 men. im afraid an acute case of "teh ghey" would sweep the island in short order. guys who play dupe police or make more than 20 posts per day will probably convert early having never made the sex with a woman. no arfcom island for me thanks.

With no laws and 30,000 men I think the ladies of Holland would probably pay a weekend visit.

Quoted: So what kind of military would you want for your own Arfcom island?

all of us over-armed rednecks?

Quoted: Quoted: So what kind of military would you want for your own Arfcom island? all of us over-armed rednecks?

your from Cali, your not overarmed   im from NY and im busting your chops, go figure

I don't believe that the U.S. Code section that covers this actually calls for automatic revocation of citizenship.  You must commit one of the specified acts "volutarily" with the "intention of relinquishing" your U.S. citizenship.   The acts include swearing an oath or allegiance to another sovereign, serving in a foreign military, being naturalized in a foreign state, and taking employment in a foreign government.  So, if the service occurs without the intent to relinquish, the lose of citizenship would not necessarily take place.

Normally the U.S. government would file an action in federal court for the revocation of the citizenship.  For example, the kid that went to Afganistan to serve with the Taliban/Al queda against the U.S.  He was captured, brought back, tried and imprisoned, but hasn't lost his citizenship as the government never made that request of the court.

At least that's how I remember it supposedly working.  Could be wrong.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Serving in the armed forces of another nation automatically makes you a non-citizen. Close Holding office in the armed forces of another nation (NCO/Officer) is a problem. Fortunately, I never got higher than Trooper, 3Star. (PFC equivalent). NTM Thanks for the correction. This came up when I was offered a commission in the NZRAF. Losing my US citizenship along with the having to serve 15 years before I could be come a kiwi citizen made this a non-player for me.