Been hanging out at other gunboards lately just for a different flavor. I have seen so much crappola posted that it makes me sick. Basically a sh*tload of racist crap. This site is criticized for being overly PC and overly moderated but at least I have never seen you guys tolerate this racist bull. No wonder the media is having a field day with gun owners. The other boards do have some good members on it, as well as good info, but it really pisses me off when they start to spout off about other races. Man if we can't ban together, then we are lost. I may not agree with some here, but at least I have never been so pissed that I wanted to crawl thru the monitor to strangle the a**hole typing on the other side. I guess there's a fine line to thread when censorship is involved.

end of rant

lordpissedoff(copied tag catchy tag line from McUzi)

The only racism I ever seen on this board is the ones against the Rosie O'Donells, the Alec Baldwins, the Martin Sheens, the Bill Clintons and the Al Gores of society.
Prejudice against a people because of their skin color and ethnic group is wrong. Prejudice against people who threaten your constitutional rights and your well being should be highly practiced.
           [X]

I saw your post on another board about a so cal shoot.Im interested live in orange co. area.I have looked at other boards and have noticed that all the topics are pretty old.

LT .... you just hang out here with us bro. I've trolled the other boards too ... did'nt seem to be a friendly group. Our Mods get a lil'
heavy handed sometime ( maybe single someone out on the board when they should do it by email ) but even at that I would'nt trade them off for anything...............well almost anything [:D]              -- Les

I'm registered at 10 or so other boards, but this is my home. I like us better, too.[:)]

I like it here. Racisim sucks and shows ignorance. This is a cool group of people.

Nicely said LT...

There's no place like home.

This board is the best! We shoot our fellow AR15ers in the foot because of different religious beliefs. We lose sight of the real enemies of the 2nd Amendment.
InTheBlack said it very well, read above. I have not figured this c'n'p or quote thing yet.
Lynn    [uzi]    [%|]     [rocket]  
               Commies!

I knew you`d be back. The Gunsnetwork is pretty slow. Even your posts.
Now if we can get rid of all the honkies here it might get better.[;)][;)][;)]btw, I`s a honky.

Good post LT.
I agree.

Ed Sr.,
Thanks for the info!
Rich314,
I go to some of the others too, but there seems to be not much life at most of them.
Lynn  [pistol]

I thought the democrats were the ones that got together to ban stuff.

Just kidding around.

I am as resolutely against racism as tyranny, both are very dangerous and very wrong. Unfortunately, it seems that some of today's "black" leaders are incredibly racist themselves. However, I've always been inspired by MLKjr. Perhaps we should look to the Black civil rights movement of the 60's for pointers, it was after all pretty darn successful. Well, LT, you're not a fan of racists, I'm pretty sure you have a very small amount of love for federal JBT's, so get this:

An early (mid-80's-mid-90's) issue of Soldier of Fortune magazine that I have buried somewhere has an expose with a lot of pics of KKK style hate/good ol' boy rallys attended by ATF and FBI criminals(they call themselves agents). One pic shows the "ni***r hunting license" that was issued to all in attendance. Another shows the entrance to the rural site, with spray painted signs saying that all cars would be searched for "n*****" and all sorts of hateful, horrible things. These guys do this on their spare time, and waco/ruby ridge us while on the clock. Maybe that's why God gave us rifles and nooses.....

I am still unable to post pics, but I could snail mail you xerox's of the article if you're really interested. It'd be on my dime. If you want to see this you can e-mail me at [email protected]


Also, LT, Assaultweb isn't on your bad list is it? Say it ain't so!

Want a PC board try the TFL board.  Seems very stuffy over there but good info.  This place is just moderated and no porno.

There are some really stinkin mean monsters on here too.

"I am as resolutely against racism as tyranny, both are very dangerous and very wrong".

I second that.

"hate/good ol' boy rallys attended by ATF and FBI criminals(they call themselves agents)"

Great description.

This is the best, no doubt about it. I have seen racism in other forums, this is  friendly and clean.

Karlozg

"I am still unable to post pics, but I could snail mail you xerox's of the article if you're really interested. It'd be on my dime. If you want to see this you can e-mail me at [email protected]"

I want to see them, please, [email protected]

Maybe its time for a group hug!!!

I agree with that. TFL is pretty stuffy with a few rather elitist folks, but it is a fountain of good information. Likewise, AK-47.net taught me quite a bit about AK's after I bought my SAR-1, though it's GD board is filled with idiots and raving lunatics(myself included from time to time). AR-15.com is sorta like the Goldilocks story-not too hot, not too cold, just right!

I've seen the other boards, but never signed up.

This was my first, and still my only place.

Okay, I'm gonna don my helmet and flak jacket, hunker down, and just through this question out here...

Race seems to be one of the biggest issues in the news lately, if not THE biggest.  I'm glad we have a friendly board where most people seem to be respectful of others. I hope we can also have an honest discussion.

My question that I'm pondering is this: can the second amendment debate be COMPLETELY seperated from the race debate?  I'd like to think it could be, but I'm not sure.

Why am I saying this? Well, here are my observations.

1.)  Racial minorities have consistantly voted overwhelmingly for gun-grabbing politicains.

2.)  The demographic change in this country since the 196(4)? immigration reform act promises to bring more people in who will in all liklihood vote majority democratic, judging by past elections.

3.) "civil rights" groups have been historically hostile to the second amendment.
For example, the NAACP tried to cash in of the HUD lawsuit against gun makers by claimming that "minority communities are disporportionally victimized by gun violence."  
Crime stats support this.  In effect they are saying that the only way to curb this violence is to disarm everyone.  I fail to see why I should give up my guns because someone in a ghetto somewhere got shot for his tennis shoes.

Now I know that most poeple are going to say that there are criminials and racists and biggots and sheep in all religions, races, and walks of life, which of course is true.  However, I don't see how our right to bear arms can survive the demographic change that the next 50 years will bring.

Can you feel the love? [:I]

I like it here too,  with all the good and bad.

If everyone was good than what fun would this world be.[;)]

my .02

That is a good argument, bigshooter, but you don't fix the problem by calling these minorities all kind of offending names under the sky and exclude them.  They way to fix this problem is by EDUCATING them and that can only be accomplished by BEFRIENDING them and INCLUDE them in the debate, not by saying "**** them gooks or screw them niggers, etc, etc, etc.  That will only drive a deeper wedge between us.

Let us convert these newcomers, that can be accomplished by educating them about what America is all about.

And you say "race". Most immigrants, don't matter where they came from, are anti guns and tend to lean toward the left in most political issues.  You don't believe me?  Talk to the newly arrived immigrants from Europe and Ireland (lots of them here, in Seattle).  These guys are Whites as can be but they all like the Democrats.  I have talk to the newly arrived immigrants from Poland, Russia and Ireland and most of them badmouthed Bush and the Republican party.

My bottom line: the issue is not about race.  It's about people who don't know jack about what America is all about.  These people need to be educated and converted, not to be excluded.

Gotta go there are points that i did not make clear I am in a big hurry.  We cant talk about this latter.

Johannes

Hey Lordtrader...
Like my gunny used to say...
HOME IS WHERE YOU DIG IT,
so dig in son.
Welcome back bro

Micro,

"That is a good argument, bigshooter, but you don't fix the problem by calling these minorities all kind of offending names under the sky and exclude them. They way to fix this problem is by EDUCATING them and that can only be accomplished by BEFRIENDING them and INCLUDE them in the debate, not by saying "**** them gooks or screw them niggers, etc, etc, etc. That will only drive a deeper wedge between us."



Couldn't agree with you more.  I get pretty hostile when it happens to me, so of course I'm not advocating this.  However, I think the left is much more likely to crush honest dialogue than the right.  When I was in grad school I went to a so called "diversity lecture" given by a black man.  There was no attempt made at  honest, cordial discussion. It was simply a white-bashing session. I was the lone dissenter in a room filled with angry, even hostile people. I had one woman tell me I and the rest of white society was responsible for all the ills of black society.  It was the typical all whites are racist, american is a white racist society, blah, blah, blah.  What astounded me was the sheer number of people willing to believe this tripe. I've known plenty of white people who I would call "racist."  But the only overt acts of racially motivated violence I've seen (and I've travled a fair bit, but I am too young to remember the 60's) have been perpetuated by minorities. White society is much more divided between right and left than other racial groups.  And given all the concessions white society has made in terms of welfare, affirmative action, head start, quotas, setasides, etc. its hard for me to see  
how we can improve things, especially when Jackson, Sharpton, Cochran, et al. make their living by trying to prevent honest dialogue.

"And you say "race". Most immigrants, don't matter where they came from, are anti guns and tend to lean toward the left in most political issues. You don't believe me? Talk to the newly arrived immigrants from Europe and Ireland (lots of them here, in Seattle). These guys are Whites as can be but they all like the Democrats. I have talk to the newly arrived immigrants from Poland, Russia and Ireland and most of them badmouthed Bush and the Republican party."

I'm not saying for a second thats its all about race.  But what I am saying is that once here, there is a general (not absolute) tendency for people to segregate themselves along racal lines (which is perfectly natural, I beleive) and that they tend to tow the group political line.

The view from my tower.

I am also registered on other boards also, but I find this board with the right amount of humour and gun related topics.  Of course the name calling on other boards can get pretty old after awhile, and is not too informative, i.e. wasting your time.  If you want porno, you can easily go to a real porno site.  There are some real creative and intelligent(i.e. cool) people posting here. Another reason for the popularity of this board, and it due to the moderators.  Thank you.

Racism is not only morally wrong, it's a sign of low inteligence.

Couldn't agree with you more.  That's why I left www.assaultweb.net, and 47.net.  I couldn't believe that Assault Web actually put the chief racist in a moderator position.

I hang out on FAL Files, HK91.com, and www.ak47forums.com and as an admin on 47forums, I can say that we have not nor would we condone or put up with any racist crap.  There are more important things in this life to worry about than the melinin content of a person's skin.

Culture and race /skin color are not tied together.  Unfortunately, many people seem to confuse the two.

Actually, the connection between racial tensions and gun control is strong and historical; the simple fact is that the majority of Americans fear armed minorities.

The Jim Crow laws disarmed blacks, the NY Sullivan Law disarmed "swarthy" eastern european immigrants, etc...

Eventually, these laws were applied to everyone.

Here in Kalifornia, open carry was legal until the 60's when the Black Panthers started exercising that right on the streets of Oakland.

I was reminded of this while talking with an apparently well-to-do white couple during a cross country flight; they were limousine-liberals from Oakland who showed their true colors while lamented the fact that they had to live with ungrateful and "uppity" blacks.

I don't see much hope for getting rid of the pile of unconstitutional gun laws we're burdened with until we all accept the notion that everyone has an inalienable right to effective self defense, regardless of race.

Trader, you backstabbin' sellout!

LOL! dude, I could care less where you hang, I dont restrict myself to one or two boards.

AK47.net...the Hunter S. Thompson of gun boards.

FAL files...the Andy Kaufman of gun boards. Less offensive, but still fun.

AR15.com...the William Buckley of gun boards. OK in small doses, but so pretentious at times, that it may not be worth the trouble.

TFL...the Kathie Lee of gun boards. Weak and shallow.

D.

The other boards do have a lot to offer. I am not gonna name these boards as not to offend anyone that might frequent there and here.  I have actually met some people from some of the other boards face to face or have privately talked to them via e-mail/phone. Majority are very cordial, respectfull and stand up human beings. There are just a few bad apples. I've met people on this board on some of the shoots that I've hosted and they are good people. One that I will name is that Einsatztrooper a**hole. I pray the day never comes that I meet him in person. It will not be pretty, I tell you that much. I will still visit those sites for the info and comaraderie of most of the members. However the hypocrasy and beliefs of some members I will just ignore.

As I have said, this makes me realize how hard the decision in which and when to censor a place like this. I can now appreciate the job moderators do. I still don't agree with some rules, but some are better than others. As for the porn; not only does this one site tolerates that, they also have some good info on commie guns [^]

Derek, I will still be stalking ya no matter what board you're at. Hey man if I ever get outta Kali I want one them FALS and AR's you got.

Lordtrader - what up?  Are you moving to Texas or WHAT?

AR15.com is the best:

1. great topics
2. great people
3. respectful
4. lots and lots of traffic and posts - very active.

Don't know, have not heard from the company I've interviewed with yet. They said they would get in touch with me by the end of the week. I sent a thank you/follow up letter Tues. just ot kiss up a bit and to let them know I am interested. I will post if I get the offer.

This board rocks. Ive checked out others and all I got was crap and not fact. Ive gotten great and truthfull info from this one.
[beer]

Ufff, tell me about it.  But I am TRYING to stick it out and outlast the a-hole contingent there.  Maybe I should just cut my losses, but I hate to abandon what was once a good thing.

Hey LordTrader and RikWriter

I know what you mean! I don't see the point or any useful purpose in the REPEATED racist postings on some other board(s). Why offend and divide the few potential allies you may have.
It seems that some people never learn, if they spent as much time "researching" gun issues as the spend trying to find fault of others they make good pro-2nd defender [or Lawyers if they went to law school].

Well.... Yes, I believe the issues can be seperated. It really is a matter of education.
Let me tell you a bit about me. I am "Black/African American/ What ever the PC's think of next" currently, I live in what a lot of people think of as a "BAD" area, I could live in other places but temporarly have chosen not to do so. The area I live in is called "South Central Los Angeles". I am in a bi-racial marriage, my wife is white. I have gone to "White" schools. Now, what importance does this have well i'll try my best to explain. My mother, a school teacher - now a dean, always tried to give me the best education that she could. I've had music lesson, exposure to many people and cultures, etc. She has always promoted my free thinking even if she didn't agree with but never tried to stunt it for political correctness. It wasn't until 1995 that I made my first gun purchase. Now, i've had some exposure to firearms but it was limited. My father [a former marine] and his friends would occasionally take me shooting, a rare occasion. I knew alot about rifles but absolutely NOTHING about the workings of a handgun as when the only handgun I fire was a Ruger MK-2 and it was always ready to go when I was alowed to pick it up from the shooting bench. After much reading, hearing those around me detest firearms, more reading and looking for some type of unbiased info on gun crime I made a decision to purchase my Bushmaster - my first firearm, a rifle - something kinda familiar. It was because of things like  [u]The Armed Citizen[/u] [NRA, American Rifleman], research by Dr. Gary Kleck, etc than I was able to make an educated decision. Now in contrast, my friends and neighbors they only knew what they learnd in school, saw on TV, etc this was reinforced by political leaders who voiced that guns were bad, gu

[Continuation, First post ran over the limit]

I think it is because of my eagerness to seek this information and the fact that I do know where some of this information exist [something many people i've met don't seem to know]. It seems that many people don't know how to do basic research on an issue - I don't know if its the schools, as the schools are not entirely to blame, partially parents fault [but some of them aren't well educated themselves] as parents are ULTIMATELY responsible for a childs upbringing, etc. What I can say is that education is essential - absolutely the most important thing. You may have some who want the government to provide for them but many people do think for themselves and would not be part of a flock.


As for me, I have some college education [plan to go back for more soon], trying to find time between job and family to complete my web site as I have my own servers and plan to host web pages/sites. Its still unfinished but check out my sites:
http://64.168.177.90/2nd/
http://64.168.177.90/protius/
http://64.168.177.90/varain/
Its simple still but none of my neighbors could even conceive that I have anything like this in my home. It just what one can do if one has the knowledge.... Anyway, Thanx!
Mark

Thanks for the interesting discussion, bigshooter.  I know the types that you are talking about in one of those "diversity education" crap or whatever they may call it.  I am not White and my forefathers had suffered one way or another by the actions of White men, but at the same time, they (my forefathers) have been screwed by his own kind also, so WTF!  There are bad people from any group / race / ethnicity (whatever you want to call it).

I see that you worry that the immigrants will screw us over when it comes to the second ammendment because they tend to vote democRats.  We need to tell these people that the DemocRats are just using them.  Living in a very liberal (uh-hum, socialist) place like Seatlle, I know the fear mongering tactics that the commies eeerrr "liberals" use to gain votes.  

Anyway sorry for blithering, I am not too bright.  My original point was this: we need to rearrange our ultra leftist education institutions who are teaching these new comers a bunch of garbage.  We need to teach these immigrants the TRUE values that we Americans stand for (not the beloneys that the liberals been feeding them all these years).  We need to educate them that conservatism is the only way this country can remain prosperous and strong.  After all, they came here for better futures, right?  We need to tell them that if they follow the liberals' ways, this country is going to go to hell in hand basket just like their countries did.  That would scare the living scheize out of them, they'll abandon the democrats left and right.  Once the democrats realized that they can't get votes by letting more and more people in, they'll reduce immigrations drastically.  I call this tactic "killing two birds with one stone".

Johannes

Johannas,

Glad we seem to have a consensus on a lot of things.  Of course, as a white man (and ex-LEO, for what its worth), its hard for me to say the things you did.  What troubles me most is the people (on all sides) who make a living by continually stirring up animosity.  Of course I'm guilty of shooting my mouth off too when I get really fired up about these things.

My point is that there is a racial component to the gun control debate.  I don't mean to say that some races are antigun and some aren't.  But IMHO the demos are using minority groups to push their socialist agenda, which is downright disgusting.  They create more social problems than they solve, and then promise to fix 'em (with the same stupid laws) once they get into office. As I see it, its not in the dems best interest to make progress on issues of poverty, racism, crime, etc, because they'd quickly find themselves out of a job.

Of course it would be suicide for the NRA to talk about race, but neverthless I think we as law-abiding, gun-owning, patriotic citizens need to concentrate on reaching out to minorities while at the same time pushing for some controls on immigration.  The current free-for-all harms all races, especially the poor, and is playing right into the hands of KennedyBradyFienstien et al.

The view from my tower.    

Bigshooter,

I don't know what else to say except mega dito to your last post.

That is why I hate the Democrats so much: despite of all they say about compations, racial harmony, blah, blah, blah, they are the biggest slave owners and racists of all.  They are just users, using their sick fear mongering tactics to manipulate immigrants' fears and emotions in order to get more votes.  That is disgusting and immoral! Immoral because what they are doing is to prevent immigrants from exceling in this country.  "Don't worry, I'll take care of you (yeah, right)!  Just  vote for us!"  

If they (democrats) keep on doing whatever they are doing right now, they are going to destroy America.  Many immigrants better wake up, smell the coffee, and vote conservatives.  If not, the paradise they came to will soon be gone along with their dreams and hopes to build better futures for themselves!  It's either do or die!!

Johannes

Couldn't agree more.  I've GOT to go to bed...
Pleasure conversing with you.

Paul,
I am a 34 year old white? male with Native American heritage. I have started marking stuff Native American Indian! I'm not sure why but I do it. I stay away from boards that allow racist to sow their seeds of discord. I also stay away from the "religious" threads here because they only serve to divide us.
All of the divisivness only helps the gun-grabbing, anti-American liberals "prove their point" that we are "nuts". Imagine someone who is "crazy" enough to give their life defending our liberty![:D]
Lynn    [uzi]

I like the old board and this one.  Sure, racism is everywhere, it's unavoidable but then, there's nothing we can't deal with. I sure will be around though.

Back in the late 60s and early 70s, many application forms would ask for "RACE."  I would always check the "OTHER" box, and write in the word "HUMAN."