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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:31:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Hrm, tag.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:37:09 AM EDT
[#2]
I've never seen an adultry question on an SF86 so I don't imagine they'll check for it.
Just curious, but how is he bound by UCMJ if he's retired? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:38:27 AM EDT
[#3]
WTF?
Retired and bound by the UCMJ? Explain please... |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:38:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Yeah what he said? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:39:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I've never seen an adultry question on an SF86 so I don't imagine they'll check for it.
Just curious, but how is he bound by UCMJ if he's retired? I would think that he would have to have been active when the "crime" took place. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:41:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Damn, that's a good question.
The UCMJ is a Federal Code. If it was a civil matter, it probably would be a small consideration as long as there is no chance one of the two others involved can't use it to blackmail you. I would work hard to get the charges dimissed or reduced, and I wouldn't worry about it too much; all you can do is damage control now. Don't lie to the DIS when they interview you and you will most likely sail through okay. Retired or separated with 2 years inactive commitment remaining? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:41:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Yes it will affect depending on the clearance.
Secret will be fine. TS and above and it may get him denied. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:42:11 AM EDT
[#8]
If he cant be faithful to his spouse, do you think he can be faithful in anything else?
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:47:58 AM EDT
[#9]
If records are checked, then it will undoubtedly show up.
Will that affect his qualification for a security clearance? No. Having been in the industry for over twenty years, I've known many folks who have had similar problems with no effect on obtaining or continuing a clearance. Ed |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:51:05 AM EDT
[#10]
From UCMJ:
5-5. Applicability Of The Uniform Code Of Military Justice Even though you have retired, you are still subject to Article II of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and to trial by court-martial for violation of the Code. Link:here |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:57:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Even at SCI? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:58:55 AM EDT
[#12]
As long as you're on military retirement you're bound by the UCMJ. Paul (retired USN) |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:01:35 AM EDT
[#13]
You have to be retired recalled in order for action to be taken. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:04:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Sure it won't be a problem at all as long as the offense is not recent and all the details were disclosed up front. The quickest and easiest way to get you're ass bounced on a clearance is financial problems. Tell you're buddy to not lie to them, if he is being charged he needs to contact DSS and let them know what is happening. www.dss.mil/nf/adr/adjguid/adjguidF.htm ETA link |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:08:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Not implying that you've ever cheated on your spouse (if you have one), but you have never made a bad mistake that you know you will never repeat? Wow, I wish I was as holy as some of the people on this board..... 
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:13:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Kind of like the mistake of handing off some seeminly harmless info for some cash when times are rough. Just a mistake that's all
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:24:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Depends.
At SCI, I'm thinking it will. Then again I'm not an expert, nor do I have an SCI clearance, only Secret. Most (well, all) of the fellas I know in the Navy that are cleared SCI are also in the PRP. Adultery, problem drinking, gambling, indebtedness, etc. are all PRP disquals. Does he already have the clearance or is he being vetted? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:29:32 AM EDT
[#18]
I wouldn't equate infidelity to selling state secrets. I'm just saying just because you would do one doesn't mean you would do the other. And no, I'm not defending infidelity either! |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:33:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Goes to lack of judgement. DWI is not exactly equivalent to selling state secrets either, but shows lack of judgement. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:35:07 AM EDT
[#20]
By that standard there would have been exactly one guy left in the top secret installations where I worked. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:37:33 AM EDT
[#21]
I used to work in secure installations. I never met anybody who was stupid enough to get confused about that difference. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:39:03 AM EDT
[#22]
So does getting drunk. By either standard, if either thing had been cause for security clearance problems -- getting drunk and stupid, or getting some strange pussy -- the places where I worked would have been ghost towns. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:41:41 AM EDT
[#23]
I have been with my wife since 1985, and not once have I ever thought about straying. Just to let you know, I make mistakes everyday. I'm not perfect or holy by any means, but I know I can be trusted by my wife. This is a loyalty issue, if you cant be loyal to yourself, who can you be loyal too? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:44:21 AM EDT
[#24]
Have you ever worked in a secure installation? Ever been stationed overseas and worked in one? Could you tell me, percentage-wise, what portion of those married guys remain absolutely true and faithful to their wives while they spend a year or two in some foreign country? |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:53:08 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:54:23 AM EDT
[#26]
We have a winner! |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 7:57:23 AM EDT
[#27]
I worked for several years in them and had the exact opposite experience. Only one guy I ever met went without poontang overseas. Oddly enough, I met his wife after we got back to the states and she was giving out to everybody with a pair of pants. You go ahead and apply your standards to security clearances. Assuming they are actually enforced, that would pretty much be the end of our intelligence services. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 8:03:05 AM EDT
[#28]
I understand what you are saying, but it just seems like you are painting with an awfully wide brush. I guess I can only draw on my own experience with this issue. I was one of those people who had to "feel the sting" in order to appreciate the importance of being loyal. As God is my witness, I haven't made the same mistake twice. It cost me my first marriage. That's why I know people can make mistakes and never repeat them, because I live it out every day. The pain that caused is a healthy reminder to stay on the right path. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:16:08 AM EDT
[#29]
They will pull it.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:30:34 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:32:58 AM EDT
[#31]
Robert Hanssen was a faithful married man. However, that didn't stop him from being a treacherous piece of dogshit and selling secrets to the Soviet Union. I wouldn't mind being alone with him in a room for 10 minutes. Moral ethics are nice, but they don't mean character. Example: how many "moral" Priests were found to have molested children? A good number. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:08:14 PM EDT
[#32]
Succintly, if you are drawing military pay, whether active, active Reserve (during drill or two weeks AT) retainer or retired pay, you are subject to the UCMJ.
If he is convicted of a felony or a crime involving moral turpitude, it is almost certain that his clearance will be looked at. If he has one currently, he may be able to keep it. It will need to be reported. I happened to be one of the company HR guys who worked an issue where one of our employees with a clearance got convicted of molesting several children in his family. He got probation and didn't lose his clearance. But our customer told us he was no longer welcome at the facility. His clearance was administratively revoked, no noj no need to know or to have access. He was never able to get another. If you DON"T have an active clearance, and you accomplish any of several disqualifying events, you probably won't be issued a new clearance, or have an inactive clearance reinstated or transfered to a new employer. If you are on probabtion you can't get a clearance. We had a marketing manager with a clearance go to the competition while on probation for drunk driving. OOPS, they were unable to transfer his clearance, so he tried to come back, DIS said NO he is on probation =NO clearance. He needed the clearance for the job. We didn't re-hire. So if he ends up with a felony conviction or a moral turpitude misdemeanor conviction, he very likely will have clearance problems at the time or in the future. Lesson Keep YOUR Zipper UP. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:17:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Gets rid of the blackmail element... |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:24:05 PM EDT
[#34]
anything other than a speeding ticket will show up and have a negetive effect on his clearence .
688 |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 1:45:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Um the civillians on this thread seem to forget, or don't know that if he is convicted under Article 32 (that's a court marshall) for the crime of adultery, then he will have a felony conviction on his record. That sort of does rule out any security clearance doesn't it?
Even if it's just non-judicial punishment under Article 15 (AKA a "Captain's Mast," in the Navy and Marines) it might (probably?) show up on a background. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 1:55:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Mmmmmm... does this apply to Dem Presidents too? Senators? Maybe a double standard? It's okay if you're a pure civilian but the MIL types are expected to be better than Presidents and Senators.
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:05:05 AM EDT
[#37]
I work for a company that does background checks for the govt, and will say this:
1.) If its a criminal record, it WILL come up 2.) If its not a criminal record and one of the people listed for investigators to talk to say something about it, it WILL come up. 3.) As stated earlier, Financial problems are the biggest reason for denial 4.) Just because the adultery shows up, does not necessarily deny you from clearance. It will be an issue as to loyalty, honest, and other wonderful things that the govt wants to make sure you have before entrusting you with employment. 5.) As stated earlier, if the issue is brought up, do not deny it. Explain to the investigator exactly what happened. Being a liar will definately get you denied. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:30:23 AM EDT
[#38]
not only that but your ass-uming that he was they married one maybe hes single and hte other party married.....but I have yet to see an adultery charge either UCMJ or civilian law...stick...without video its to hard to "PROVE"..... |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:56:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Why not? We have had a couple of Presidents with top secret clearance who couldn't keep it in their pants. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 4:06:57 AM EDT
[#40]
I think that as long as you tell them about it, then there is no problem. The issue with security clearance (from my perspective, I could be wrong), was that they are worried about you having secrets so serious, that if someone found out, you could be blackmailed. If you have no hidden secrets, they know they don't have to worry about you sneaking classified material out of work to prevent your secrets from being revealed.
Tell the truth to the investigators, and you (in general) should be fine. TXL |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 4:22:21 AM EDT
[#41]
If that was actually enforced then the posts I was at would be empty. Lots of guys had hooches in the village, with steady girlfriends. The rate of marital infidelity in the US is something above 50 percent for men. That is in the US, where they are in a normal environment with their wives around. Let's suppose that you put them in some barren foreign country, with none of their usual friends or activities, outside a village that consists almost entirely of bars and whorehouses. What do you think would happen to that 50 percent figure? |
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