User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 10:49:14 PM EDT
[#1]
no thanks
i'd already be worried enough about lead shooting at an indoor range. i don't want to have to worry about freaking uranium dust as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:05:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Why?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:13:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Simply, a very dense material is better...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:16:41 PM EDT
[#4]
I though the main advantage of DU bullets is not so much because they're denser (although it helps) I think Tungsten is denser, but it's because they spall when penetrating steel creating enough heat to melt even more steel. They're for steel armor (light tank killers). www.deploymentlink.osd.mil/du_library/how.shtml
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:24:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Better for what? Its a small arm, all the go fast gee whiz bullet tech wont change that all that much. If I could get a DU penetrator for, say, a .50 sure. But for my 5.56? Why? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:26:37 PM EDT
[#6]
They're idiots, yes, but I don't think we should just start shooting them.
ETA: OH! You said DU for bullets... Not the other way around. Silly me... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:31:41 PM EDT
[#7]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:33:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Not only is it denser, it also tends to be self-sharpening and pyrophoric, which makes it a great tank killer.
I'm not sure it would be great in small arms, but due to the added density, wouldn't it be cool to be able to accurately shoot 100 gr. DU bullets in a 1/12 twist barrel? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:35:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Except 5.56 wouldnt stop a tank no matter what material the bullet is. Which brings us to the point. Its a small arm (and a small small arm at that). Thus...Why? And I'd bet my scope 100 grains is WAY too heavy for a 1/12. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:39:21 PM EDT
[#10]
but.... but.... didn't the ammo oracle tell me that stabilization at a certain twist rate had to do with bullet length, not bullet weight?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:42:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Yes, but even a 100 gran bullet wouldc be really short so to properly spin a short bullet you need a slower twist rate. Longer bullets need faster twist rates. Variable twist rates are the best, as they can handle both long and short bullets. But variable twist rate barrels are pretty expensive. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 12:59:07 AM EDT
[#12]
Tungsten: Density @ 293 K: 19.3 g/cm3
Lead: Density @ 293 K: 11.34 g/cm3 Uranium: Density @ 293 K: 18.95 g/cm3 Someone please explain? Why not just use Tungsten? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 1:01:12 AM EDT
[#13]
The extra density of DU allows it to be more high speed and less low drag.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 1:44:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Tungsten (except when really pure) is very brittle. Uranium isn't so brittle. This means that the tungsten projectile would shatter into dust on impact; the DU projectile will only flatten out. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 1:57:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Corbin makes several bullet presses for making your own bullets.
These machines will compress just about any of the softer materials like lead into a bullet, or shape a jacket with a lead core into a finished bullet. Want something custom? They sell powdered tungsten so you can use it in the place of lead for the precise purpose of making a shorter bullet, 180grn lead bullet for a 357Mag that is rather long or a 180grn tungsten core bullet which is nearly 1/3 shorter allowing you to get more powder into the case. As for depleted uranium, one of the nice features about it is that it can be machined in a relatively soft state and then hardened to be comparable to the very hardened steel or tungsten alloys which helps it penetrate armor. It's other properties are beneficial as well. But my 50BMG isn't likely to become terribly much more capable shooting DU penetrators out of it compared to something like the SLAP rounds that just use a tungsten penetrator. A 700grn AP pill is pretty nasty as it stands and one of the guys on Biggerhammer did an analysis on one of the 700grn penetrators, they turned out to be like 98% steel and just incredibly well hardened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 2:10:59 AM EDT
[#16]
lies |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 2:18:29 AM EDT
[#17]
How does it do on squirrel?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 2:52:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Heck I work at a decomissioned nuclear plant a couple hundred yards away from TONS of DU that we can't get the government to take like they promised. The company I work for (CMS Energy) is looking to sell its other nuke plant and our site. Scrape together enough coin and you could have all the DU you could handle! LOL Course if you attempted to take it out of the storage casks, you only get to see it for a few minutes before you died but hey.....It would make the papers! LOL |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:02:17 AM EDT
[#19]
Nope
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:16:45 AM EDT
[#20]
Denser material=shorter projectile=lower ballistic coefficient=inferior exterior ballistic performance.
Mild Bill |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 3:44:26 AM EDT
[#21]
Umm, DU shouldnt kill you from exposure. Unless you eat it or something. So....whats *really* in those casks? 
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 4:09:20 AM EDT
[#22]
Didn't they blame the Gulf war syndrome on the DU dust off the destroyed tanks??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/21/2006 5:39:56 AM EDT
[#23]
Was jus about to pack up for the team Oregon shoot, but I had to say this: DU is NOT, I repeat NOT, NUCLEAR WASTE! DU is left over from the process of ENRICHING Uranium! You take natural Uranium which is over 99% U-238 and <1% U-235, process it to make something which is around 90% U-238 and 10% U-235 for power generation or 90+% U-235 for weapons grade stuff. The leftover material, which is nearly pure U-238 is DU. Nuclear Waste is highly radioactive and would kill you in a couple mnutes, DU is basically harmless unless ingested. This is the kinda shit that makes the hippies want to ban the stuff because no one knows what they are talking about. Sorry to be such a jerk about it, but saying DU is nuclear waste is akin to saying that "assault weapons" are machine guns. That would go over real well here wouldn't it? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:23:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Amen! I actually got the idea from a democrat discussion board. They were complaining about DU and its effects on human exposure. I know it's not a new idea. I actually got the idea years ago on this forum. I thought it would be interesting to reanimate the discussion. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:24:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Silver works much better on zombies, and it's a lot cheaper.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:27:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Dude, you mean you DON'T have any DU rounds? Sheesh....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:32:11 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm guessing it probably wouldn't be that interesting.. Squirrel isn't dense enough to cause any real expansion now a 45g ballistic tip OTOH
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:34:48 PM EDT
[#28]
I don't see a real use for it outside military circles. The ecological / health issues wouled make me leery of playing with the stuff unless I absolutely had to.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:37:17 PM EDT
[#29]
uglygun said: As for depleted uranium, one of the nice features about it is that it can be machined in a relatively soft state and then hardened to be comparable to the very hardened steel or tungsten alloys which helps it penetrate armor. It's other properties are beneficial as well.
I'm thinkin' that I am going to have to go to 7-grain whole wheat bread, instead of regular white bread, to stop these things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:38:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Dont try machining DU! DU's pretty harmless if it's in a lump. Maching it or file it, and you create particles that if they get into your lungs, can harm you from the radiation it emits.
Want to buy some DU? It's not cheap, but you can get it here www.unitednuclear.com They only sell little strips at the moment, but they used to sell 3"x3" plates of it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:42:35 PM EDT
[#31]
From the site.. Finely divided Uranium particles can ignite spontaneously. What is "Finely divided Uranium"? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:47:08 PM EDT
[#32]
Have you studied the physcial characteristics of DU? Why would you want it? Just because? The cool factor? Yeah, DU is very dense (AW 238, 19050 kg/m^3), where lead is pretty light (AW 207, 11340 kg/m^3). So you could have smaller projectiles right? And they'd go faster, right? And they'd penetrate everything. BUT, DU likes having a little kick back: it needs the oomph of the target (think linebackers hitting guards) to do its schtick, which is pyrophoria. Yup, it ignites itself. So there you are in the house. To get the maximum effect you have made all your interior walls using aluminium (you should see 30mm GAU-8 on an M-113: like a Doberman on a chihuaha). As soon as you let fly, the pyrophoria kicks in, and you get a great show! And pretty soon your house burns down. Now, the EMS is going to be real happy. DU gets 'airborne' w/o parachutes. It creates very small particles called alpha particles (protons actually, sub-atomic particles) with mEV energies. This crap gets in your lungs (why do you think the Army decons every vehicle hit by DU, when it can?) and the protons start beating the living crap out of your alveolae. pretty soon you have lung cancer! Neat stuff eh? Leave DU to the professionals. The world is unfortunately filled with amateurs who will not or cannot follow directions. You'd be well-advised to avoid them.  W-P: proud user of DU since in 1983! (and we ain't talking Democratic Underground!) 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:47:29 PM EDT
[#33]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:48:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Ive breathed in alot of DU dust, I assume I am gonna get cancer? I got it from running into houses right after tanks shot DU rounds into them. Tank rounds/dust from house/smell from blown up people is definitly the WORST smell ever. DU rounds smell so bad hitting houses, can anyone explain that??? |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:50:31 PM EDT
[#35]
THAT is not depleted uranium. That is heavily irradiated uranium containing all the imaginable high-energy things: Pu, Th, and a few other 'daughters with LONG half-lives and high disintegreation energies. DU is what's left at the fuel plant AFTER they extract the U-236 and other fissile material. It is relatively harmless until it is turned into dust. Passing through hard material makes it shed some skin (dust). Bad juju to inhale. Internal contamination. Bad. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:54:54 PM EDT
[#36]
i dont think tanks are shooting sabots into houses.. more like HE or that new buckshot round... |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:55:17 PM EDT
[#37]
I'd opine (as a former tank Company Commander) that tanks did not routinely fire DU into anything but hard targets. We used HEAT or MPAT during ODS, same as now. Basic Loads were adjusted according to the threat, and so we downloaded a lot of DU for HEAT when we considered MOUT/CQB support missions. What you smelt is the nitrites of explosives expanding in the atmosphere. A DU round into a house would merely whiz through. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:56:53 PM EDT
[#38]
I would think the Armor guys would use HEAT rounds as they are far more effective on buildings and don't have the problem of continuing to fly down range as they pass through a house like a hot knife through butter. Quite a few High Explosives have a nasty residual odor after detonation. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 12:57:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Shhhhhhh! I was setting a trap for any terrorists on the board! LOL "depleted" is very misleading since if a commercial reacor could use up every scrap of uranium wouldn't be able to put out any power; and they are all about "staying up". But if some terrorist wants to get the spent nuclear fuel from our casks we wouldn't have to look very far from the casks to find their bodies! So what have we learned? Depleted uranium isn't really "depleted" but a by-product (or waste product) of the enrichment process. Spent fuel gives off a blue glow in water and keeps you really warm! Oh and Assault rifles are actually machine guns owned by civilians.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:10:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Nuclear waste doesn't give off a blue glow. That only happens during fission. It's called Cernkov Radiation. Explanation here: campus.umr.edu/reactor/cerenkov.html
Funny how radioactive stuff is always portrayed as glowing green... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:11:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Oh man, you mean the DU855 rounds I have been buying froma guy off E-Bay arn't really DU? CRAP!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:12:37 PM EDT
[#42]
I don't see a point to using depleted uranium at all. I'd probably have a few shells of it just in case if I owned, say, an AT field gun or a tank with working armament, but that's about it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:33:16 PM EDT
[#43]
Reactors are loaded with excess reactivity at refueling. During the 18m or 24m operating cycle, they try and burn enough of the core that we actually have a reactor temperature and steam pressure drop for the last few weeks of the cycle. So yes, we do try and burn the excess reactivity in the fuel. But we load in ~ 1/3 of a new core every load. Enough reactivity remains in the twice burnt fuel assemblies to sustain 18m of operation. rho= reactivity. We have LOTS of pcm in ours. Cherenkov radiation is actually a property of THE WATER, not the fuel. The newly burned fuel continues to radiaoactively decay after shutdown (residual heat, or decay heat). The water is there to stop/slow/moderate neutrons, but neutrons are uncharged and do not directly cause the radiation. It actually comes from beta particles (fast electrons) which are emitted by fission products. These electrons cause the water molecules to achieve a higher energy state. The dump of the electron caused by the beta particle passing at hypersonic (for speed of sound in water, which is LOTS faster than air: they range from 1450 to 1498 meters per second in distilled water and 1531 m/s in sea water at room temperatures (20 to 25 °C)) velocities through the water molecules. The glow is just a passing beta particle. It is not fission, which is the release of NEUTRONS caused by splitting heavy mass atoms like U235. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:42:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Cool, I thought it would be an interesting debate. I honestly don't know very much about it's characteristics though. My physics background only encompasses a calc based basic college physis course. I'm more into chemistry than physics. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#45]
DU, unlike tungsten, is pyrophoric. It's pretty sweet stuff, though I doubt it would be effective in any small arms. Maybe if I owned a DD (Lahti, Solothurn, M3 AT gun, etc) but otherwise....no real benefit. I wouldn't mind being able to get my hands on some M955 (true 5.56 AP rounds) |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Ah, those are the ones with the tungsten penetrator, right?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:54:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Wouldn't be suprised if that was part of it. Inhaling any vaporized heavy metal is bad for your health. Moral of the story: don't go playing on blowed up shit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:54:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Improved penetration of body armor and increased retained energy at longer ranges due to higher mass? As I understand it, DU is actually much cheaper than tungsten as well. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 1:56:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Want to hear something really funny? The fact that you said that fills me with an intense desire to buy DU rounds for every caliber I own.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/22/2006 2:54:57 PM EDT
[#50]
They did wizz right through, they were using sabots because they said heats wont arm at the ranges they were shooting into the houses at, think 30 feet. Picture of the holes: 
|
||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
