... hire people who can READ English for your NICS facility.  

Morons.



So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today, and fill out the 4473 like always.  When the people at the counter call it in, it gets DENIED by the person on the phone, because I put "no" to the "Are you a nonimmigrant alien?" question.  

For any of you that don't know, non-immigrant alien refers to visitors, vacationers, and people here on temporary work visas.  Permanent residents (i.e Green Card holders) are not considered non-immigrant aliens, they are considered immigrant aliens.  This defintion is written on the 4473 itself, and there is a separate line for Permanent Resident Aliens to fill out and put their Alien ID number.

The counter people at WalMart (who were very friendly and helpful, btw) tried to explain this to the person from NICS, saying that I was a resident alien, and not an non-immigrant alien, and thus HAD to put "no" to the "Are you a non-immigrant alien?" question.  The NICS person refused to even process the 4473 further, and told them it was denied, and hung up.




The poor WalMart employees didn't know what to do - since I had clearly filled out the form correctly, but obviously they couldn't sell me the gun when it had been denied by NICS.  So they spend about 10 minutes reading and re-reading the 4473 and the defintions on the back - utterly confused.

Finally, I double-dog-dared them to call back the NICS. I told them that I guaranteed they'd get a different answer if they got a different person on the phone.

Luckily, they did - and talked to a supervisor who told them it was okay to go ahead and process the 4473, and they did.  But of course I got delayed.  

Don't get me wrong -
First of all, I am very happy that foreign nationals are allowed to buy firearms in the U.S, and that's awesome.
Second, I think it's a great idea for the FBI to be extra-careful when processing the background check for non-citizens.

All I'm asking for is that the FBI actually be able to read and understand THEIR OWN forms!  




This is also the first time ever that I've been delayed more than a few minutes.  Go figure.  A quick trip to WallyWorld to pick up a Winchester took over an hour and a half.

its a government agency, I'm suprised they even speak english

You should have told them it was Spanish.  That would have cleared you immediately.

Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.

Quoted: Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you.

No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark.



I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with  

When are you going to become a citizen?

Bob

They probably figured that since you're Dutch, you can't be trusted with firearms.

Damn tourists.



ByteTheBullet  (-:

Just wait until they outsource it to India...

The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon?  How dare you.

G

Quoted: They probably figured that since you're Dutch, you can't be trusted with firearms.

They sure as hell are handy with dykes and bicycles though.

Quoted: When are you going to become a citizen?

I don't have any particular plans to in the near future.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.  

Quoted: Quoted: When are you going to become a citizen? I don't have any particular plans to in the near future. Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.

You give up your position for the Danish throne then?

Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.

You've been here HOW LONG?

Didn't you MARRY an American citizen?  Doesn't that make you a citizen by default or something?

Quoted: You've been here HOW LONG? Didn't you MARRY an American citizen?  Doesn't that make you a citizen by default or something?

Yeah - I stole me one of your womenfolk!  

I THINK I could probably become a citizen anytime I wanted, since I've been here for so long now, but I'm not 100% of the procedure.

Quoted: Quoted: Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you. No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark. I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with

Watch for the Black Helicopters as well.

Quoted: Quoted: When are you going to become a citizen? I don't have any particular plans to in the near future. Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.

Cann't you have dual citezenship?  Or is that just a complicated pain in the ass?

Quoted: Cann't you have dual citezenship?  Or is that just a complicated pain in the ass?

Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it.  You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence.

Otherwise, I'd have no problem with that, since Denmark and the U.S. are such strong allies.  I'd do it in a heartbeat if it was possible.

Perhaps it was the FBI guy's way of saying to you to get a Marlin instead.

Quoted: You should have told them it was Spanish.  That would have cleared you immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.

This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.

Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship.

I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).

Is it any other negative effects from not having an american citizenship regarding gun legislation ?

Quoted: Is it any other negative effects from not having an american citizenship regarding gun legislation ?

As a general rule (and from the persepctive of federal gun laws) a permanent resident alien has the exact same rights as a U.S. citizen when it comes to gun ownership.  For instance, if I wanted to (and could meet local zoning rules, etc), I could get an FFL, become a dealer or manufacturer, etc.

I actually have an FFL (for collecting - the C&R Type 03 FFL), and I have an NFA firearm (a short-barelled rifle).


However, ironically the ONE STATE that I am aware of that does restrict non-citizens a little is Missouri, where I live.  That restriction however, is only on the purchase of modern handguns, and concealed carry permit.  Notice however, that I am not restricted from OWNING modern handguns, just from purchasing them (so in fact, I have several modern handguns that I owned before moving to Missouri, and that's no problem ).  I could also carry concealed if I wanted, because I can easily get a Florida concealed carry permit (which you can get even if you don't live in Florida) and that is recognized by the state of Missouri.

Quoted: The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon?  How dare you. G

Sitting Bull would certainly agree.

Quoted: Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship. I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship).

I did not know that you could not give it up, why?

Quoted: Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI.

Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship. I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship). I did not know that you could not give it up, why?

Probably in the same way that I *could* move to Europe or Australia, and I might even want to live there my whole life, but would I *want* to officially say "I am no longer an American"?  

It's kind of like burning down your childhood home.

I've had a similar thing:

Even though I was, just like yourself, a immigrant alien, Walmart employee saw my nationality and instantly refused to even call it in. So I demanded to talk to the manager, and he plainly said it was Walamrt store policy!!

Isn't that the same as saying we're not selling milk to jewish people??? Store Policy??

Quoted: ... hire people who can READ English for your NICS facility.   Morons. So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today, and fill out the 4473 like always.  When the people at the counter call it in, it gets DENIED by the person on the phone, because I put "no" to the "Are you a nonimmigrant alien?" question.   For any of you that don't know, non-immigrant alien refers to visitors, vacationers, and people here on temporary work visas.  Permanent residents (i.e Green Card holders) are not considered non-immigrant aliens, they are considered immigrant aliens.  This defintion is written on the 4473 itself, and there is a separate line for Permanent Resident Aliens to fill out and put their Alien ID number. The counter people at WalMart (who were very friendly and helpful, btw) tried to explain this to the person from NICS, saying that I was a resident alien, and not an non-immigrant alien, and thus HAD to put "no" to the "Are you a non-immigrant alien?" question.  The NICS person refused to even process the 4473 further, and told them it was denied, and hung up. The poor WalMart employees didn't know what to do - since I had clearly filled out the form correctly, but obviously they couldn't sell me the gun when it had been denied by NICS.  So they spend about 10 minutes reading and re-reading the 4473 and the defintions on the back - utterly confused. Finally, I double-dog-dared them to call back the NICS. I told them that I guaranteed they'd get a different answer if they got a different person on the phone. Luckily, they did - and talked to a supervisor who told them it was okay to go ahead and process the 4473, and they did.  But of course I got delayed.   Don't get me wrong - First of all, I am very happy that foreign nationals are allowed to buy firearms in the U.S, and that's awesome. Second, I think it's a great idea for the FBI to be extra-careful when processing the background check for non-citizens. All I'm asking for is that the FBI actually be able to read and understand THEIR OWN forms!   This is also the first time ever that I've been delayed more than a few minutes.  Go figure.  A quick trip to WallyWorld to pick up a Winchester took over an hour and a half.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship. I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship). I did not know that you could not give it up, why?

I'm probably being unclear again.  


I can't give it up, because it is part of who I am.  It's not a technical "can't" (of course I could theoretically give up my Danish citizenship), in the same way that you could give up your U.S. citizenship, or SteurAUG could give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses.

So it's technically a "won't"  - but I think of it as a "can't" because I cannot imagine anything that would make me do it.

Quoted: I've had a similar thing: Even though I was, just like yourself, a immigrant alien, Walmart employee saw my nationality and instantly refused to even call it in. So I demanded to talk to the manager, and he plainly said it was Walamrt store policy!!

I guess I should consider myself lucky, then.  

Quoted: Quoted: The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon?  How dare you. G Sitting Bull would certainly agree.

U.S. Army never used them.  Many Indians, however, did.

DK-Prof

You were expecting compenece from government employee's.

So it's technically a "won't"

Clear, now.

I am still in love with one of your AR's, the one in the Zombie thread from last year, btw.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship. I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship). Probably in the same way that I *could* move to Europe or Australia, and I might even want to live there my whole life, but would I *want* to officially say "I am no longer an American"?   It's kind of like burning down your childhood home.

+1  ... and there's that heir to the throne deal too!

You mean NICS doesn't use a call center in India, like everyone else?

Quoted: Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it.  You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence.

I wish the U.S. had the same policy.  People holding dual-citizenship is bullshit.

Quoted: Quoted: Nope - Denmark doesn't allow it.  You're either completely a Danish citizen, or you are not - no sitting on the fence. I wish the U.S. had the same policy.  People holding dual-citizenship is bullshit.

While I would take advantage of it if I could, I completely agree that it is a VERY odd concept.

DK-Prof

I went through the exact same problem 3 years ago soon after the rules changed. You'd think they have figured it out by now. Oddly enough, I have bought twice since and haven't had a problem (1 immediate pass, 1 delayed).

I even talked to a supervisor and they agreed I should have passed.

Unfortunately, the only way to get past it is to file an appeal.  I included the wording off the 4473 and their website on my appeal letter. It takes a few months, and you will probably have to go through ANOTHER 4473 by the time the appeal is processed. Check their website for appeal info.

Quoted: I don't have any particular plans to in the near future. Don't get me wrong, I'd be perfectly happy and proud to be a U.S. citizen - it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship.

Traitor!*

* Now are you a traitor if don't become a US citizen, or are you a traitor if do give up your Danish?

Personal I'd eat the Danish with a nice cold glass of whole milk.

NICS is just a reverse telemarketer - they hire the same people, only they are answering the phones instead of pestering folks.  The wages might be better, but I wouldn't bet much on that.

NICS is operated by a private contractor, not the .gov

Quoted: The Winchester 94 Terror Weapon?  How dare you. G

"Bullet hose! More thrusts per squeeze! Baby killer! Banana clips! Cop-killer bullets! You murdered John Lennon!"


>Sorry- I was having a flashback to my liberal days there.....<



Nice gun, prof- get 'em before they say "Made in China" on 'em.....

Quoted: Quoted: Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI. Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check.

AFAIK NICS is free.  The State adds a charge for their part.  In Oregon it's $9.  Across the border in Washington it's free.

Quoted: Quoted: Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you. No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark. I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with

Not only listening to your phone calls but watching your e-mail and posts.....Keep talking fun boy!!!!

The real shitty part is that with your "denial" you are now one more stat:

One more criminal stopped from buying  a gun by the brady bunch.

Quoted: So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today

What was the price on that in your neck of the woods ?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Our gun transfers get called into the Virginia State Police, as far as I know -- not the FBI. Part of the reason that our transfers cost $2 in overhead instead of 7 times that like a NICS check. AFAIK NICS is free.  The State adds a charge for their part.  In Oregon it's $9.  Across the border in Washington it's free.

Oregon charges $10 now.   they found out they were getting a little shortchanged and raised it the dollar.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This strikes me as funny...If you would truely be happy to be a US Citizen, you would be happy to give up your Danish Citizenship. I think you're reading too much into it.  I was just trying to say that I have nothing AGAINST becoming a U.S. citizen, it's just that I cannot give up my Danish citizenship (which unfortunately is a requirement for U.S. citizenship). I did not know that you could not give it up, why? I'm probably being unclear again.   I can't give it up, because it is part of who I am.  It's not a technical "can't" (of course I could theoretically give up my Danish citizenship), in the same way that you could give up your U.S. citizenship, or SteurAUG could give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses. So it's technically a "won't"  - but I think of it as a "can't" because I cannot imagine anything that would make me do it.

You become a citizen and we'll get SteyrAUG to give up his penis, get a sex change and wear pink dresses.

Quoted: Quoted: Looks like we will have to keep an eye on you. No shit, now the NSA will be listening in to my phone calls with old army buddies in Danmark. I hope they have plenty of soap to wash their ears out with

Danmark, is that anywhere near Denmark?

Sad day when the folks at Wal Mart are smarter than the government employee working for NICS.

Quoted: Quoted: So I got to Wallyworld to pick up a Winchester 94 today What was the price on that in your neck of the woods ?

I think it was $278 or something in that neighborhood.  Maybe it was $260-something - but it was definitely between $250 and $300.