I have a medium Alice pack for my BOB.  What are the advantages of getting the frame?   Can it carry the bag better, or with more weight?  

My BOB is currently about .1% full.  A few matches, flashlight, compass and thats it.  

PS.  Anyone want to list their contents of their BOB's.   I have a few good sites with some excellent lists, but its nice to see what other people have.

I use a large Alice pack with frame.  The advantage of the frame is weight distribution.  
Here is a list of what I have in my BOB.

- Matches in water proof container
- lighter
- 6 MREs & heaters
- 1 set of BDU's
- space socks and under clothes
- Duck tape (wrapped in a zip lock bag)
- toilet paper (wrapped in a zip lock bag)
- 100' of 550 cord
- camel back with (2) 100oz bladders
- 300rd battle pack of SA .223
- basic medical kit
- leather gloves
- wool inserts for gloves
- poncho & liner
- K-Bar knife
- Swiss army style knife
- balaclava
- foam mats
- 2 person trail tent
- I still have a lot of empty space in my pack which I generally fill with extra MRE's and winter cloths.  This does not include the items on my LBV.  Hope this helps.

With a frameless ALICE all the weight is on your shoulders. Add the frame and the majority of the weight is transferred to your lower back - which is much more capable of carrying weight - and the shoulder straps are used for little more than keeping the pack from falling off. In other words a frame with waist belt greatly increases the load you can comfortably carry.

Now, as far as a BOB in a rucksack, I wouldn't do it. I believe that 25% of your body weight is the most it's recommended to carry for long trips, and that doesn't really work out to much for most of us - can you keep the weight of your BOB to 25% of your body weight? And for those of us for whom 25% of our body weight equals 60+ pounds, we're probably not in good enough shape to carry that much weight. My recommendation? Get a vehicle, pack animal, or stay in place. It doesn't have to be a mule or llama, even a good-sized dog can carry 30+ pounds on his back, which would account for all his food and a good portion of my own. Just make sure to inspect his feet often. A Jeep, Samurai, etc, has room for plenty if you pack wisely and aren't afraid to look like the Beverly Hillbillies, and a compact truck will carry enough for you and all your friends (and your friends will fit too!). If you can't afford another vehicle, just get a small utility trailer for the one you have now.

A few suggestions for your medical kit.

Splinter tweezers.  About $6.00 at the med supply house.

Betadine solution.  Generic is fine, known as Povidone-Iodine solution.  Corpsmen carried it when I was in the Marines, and it is good for most all wounds except deep puncture wounds.  It is about the same stuff hospitals swab with before surgery.

WATERPROOF adhesive tape.

This one I don't know the proper name for.  It's like a VERY coarse weave ACE bandage.  It's not as strong and it sticks to it self.  It is used to hold wound dressings in place, no tape or pins required.  Drug stores have it at a high price and it comes in lots of colors.  Dr's supply stores seem to have it more reasonably priced.  The best place to get it may be the feed store under the name "Vet Wrap", or some such.  Lots of bright colors, but also available in dark green, brown and black for that camo look.

If you are traveling with a lady... supplies for that time of the month- a MUST.  Remember low flow for several days and heavy for 5 or so.  Don't forget Midol & etc.

Neosporin or equivalent.

They now sell waterproof bandaids.  They seem to work well.

Just some things I've found handy.

I prefer a larger, external frame pack available at hiking specialty stores.  They tend to be more expensive, but are better made and have greater capacity.  Just make sure to get one in dark colors like grey and green.

If you are going to use the ALICE pack, get the frame, it is a must if you are going to carry more than a few pounds.  It also allows your back to breathe.  

Depends on what you want to use it for. I keep a pack in my car in case I ever have to walk out of somewhere my car and ego got me they shouldn't have, and because I can just grab it and go if I want to do a day hike--I keep my boots in the car, too. the pack is an REI Halfdome, which is excellent--very comfortable, decent capacity, bladder pocket, and affordable. The civilian packs are very impressive these days.

Lighter, sweater, polypro tshirt, an MRE and powerbars, water, hat, candles, bug juice, sunscreen, socks, garbage bags (el cheapo raingear 'cause I don't want expensive Gortex I never use to just sit stuffed in a pack), nylon tarp, 550 cord, multitool, TP, reading material (Cicero, "The Nature of the Gods", good stoic reading), notebook and pencil, and a ludicrous bayonet I got for my Mossberg 590 and carry around because it's better there than in a closet. I also keep a car kit with a bunch of other stuff.

The basic idea is to be able to walk 40 miles or so and spend a night out in unpleasant but not extreme weather.

WOO HOO! That means that I can carry almost 70lbs of stuff! How much would a case of .22 and a case of .38 weigh?

Mate, you gotta go for a frame. I've humped rucks with and without, and the frame makes things much better, and life easier.

Current Australian rucks have NO frame at all. A piece of tin to form on your back. Its shit. A fucken crippler, and you can't ventilate, so after a while its like an iron on your back! Especially here in this country where anything under 72F is considered cold.

Several disposals (surplus shoppes) offer an ALICE US ptrn ruck in all sizes, but in Auscam DP. They are popular with the Lads, with frames.

Personally, I use a Canadian 82 ptrn ruck with frame. Kept it after I left the Canadians. I am used to it, and I love it. Its olive drab, and I have never had any complaints with all the units I have been posted to. If I had to fuck it off, I'd go for the Auscam 'US' ALICE lge size ruck, with frame.

All the best,
1feral1
Sydney

I usually keep wire cutters, 24 guage wire, Semtex-oh BOB. I thought we were talking about BOMB bags. Oops. The trolls will be knocking on my door any minute now.   [:o]