The worse type is the do-it yourself logger.  95% of them think just because they have a chainsaw and something that runs on diesel they are "po fess unal" enough to log.  Over the years I have seen some real pieces of work.  Here are a couple of stories.  Names have been changed to protect the guilty.


1)We will call this guy "John" John spent nearly all day cutting down trees and loading them on a trailer.  He didn't have a tractor or anything to load the logs on with so he used one of those things that you use to pull car engines with.  By the time he gets to the mill he has just about burned up his rear-end and the tires on the trailer are flat with bent rims.  He has overloaded his little trailer with logs.  This trailer was designed to haul lawn equipment not 2 tons of logs.  As the yard manager unloaded his logs, "John" says: "I don't know why they say yellow poplar is such a light wood. These were the hardest damn tree I have ever cut!"  I look at the yard manager-he looks at me and then I turn to "John" and say: Those aren't yellow poplar logs, those are hickory logs."  For y'all who don't know hickory is one of the lowest value timber species there is.  So for 6 hours of work, a burned out rear end and a trashed trailer "John" went home with a huge $93 check

2)We will call this guy "Jack".  Jack also spent nearly all day cutting down trees and loading them on a landscaping trailer as well.  Jack had at least some sense and used a tractor to load the logs.  Jack was carefull not to over load his trailer and he had the logs stacked really nice.  You see Jack was cutting cherry which is one of the most valuable species.  However much to his chagrin,  he realized that he cut the logs into 5 foot lengths.  Our mill doesn't take any log smaller than 8 feet in lenght and neither will any other sawmill for that matter.  "Jack" didn't want to haul the logs back and didn't have a place for them.  We decided to stick the logs in our load of pulpwood.  7 hours of work and "Jack" went home with a smoking $17 check for pulpwood.

3)This next guy perhaps wins the grand price for stupidity. We will call him "Jesse". I had been after him for years for him to let me sell his timber.  When I changed jobs I again aproached him to try to buy his tract of timber.  He finally told me that he didn't want to sell his timber because he didn't want some logger going in and messing his land up.  Plus, he said that all timber buyers do is rip people off.  So Jesse goes out buys a skidder that was made in 1965 and would not pass must by OSHA standards and a tractor with a lift to load the logs onto Ford truck manufactured probably in 1956.  I would backfire something horrible and left a trail of smoke for miles behind it.  The first day didn't go so well for "Jesse".  On his first day he was trying to cut away this 7 inch red maple sapling to get it out if the way.  Well there was a tree leaning over the sapling, putting tention on the but of the tree, right where "Jesse" was cutting.  As soon as the chainsaw starts cutting the tree, the tension is released causing the tree to spring back right into the face of "Jesse".  "Jesse" wakes up about 30 minutes later after being knocked out cold.  His is also missing 3 teeth and has a broken nose.  Does this deter "Jesse"?  Hell no!  Three days latter while cutting down a massive white pine he makes a little boo-boo.  WHen the white pine leaps off the stump it hits a locust snag.  The locust snag falls and lands right on top of his brand new Tundra!  Does this deter "Jesse"  Hell no!  He has a chainsaw and is a "po fess unal" logger.  Three weeks later "Jesse" comes to me and says "Uhhh, I think I want to sell you the rest of my timber, and uhhh I need some help with uhhh something as well."  I ride out to the tract and because "Jesse" cares more about the land than one of my logging crews, he has burried his skidder in a creek.    Unaware of water quality laws regarding forest management, "Jesse" was skidding logs DOWN the creek because "It was the easiest way to go"  By the time my crew got there 10 days later it took a D8cat to pull his skidder out.

Moral of the story is don't cut timber yourself

These guys must be related to 1shott's neighbor!!!

Every kid I work with wants to be a sawyer...After they bug me enough I hand em a saw and say go to work.  Most of the time within an hour they are wanting to hand it back saying "My forearms are cramping up, This is harder than it looks."  Well no sh*t.  Not to mention if you aren't looking over their shoulder they will really mess up some cuts and make a real dangerous situation for everyone around.

ETA  Is this Jessies truck?

Thanks for the stories!!

That reminds me to leave stuff I know *nothing* about to the pro-feshinuls!!

Anytime someone says "I'm a pro-fess-inal", I run like hell.  Not a one of them knows a thing.

Not a logger, I just cut the trees I need out of my way down, and turn them into firewood logs.  Mostly oak.

Quoted: "My forearms are cramping up, This is harder than it looks."

 I love playing with saws but after about 2 or 3 hours my back hurts and forearms ache.  No way I could do it 9 hours a day 5 days a week.  

Out of respect for an ARFCOMMER who just might be honest and legit, I will refrain from relating my stories of assholes in the logging/timber industry.

I now work for a large "home improvement" chain.

The stories I could tell...

The DIY'er always spends 20 bks to save a nickel...

ROFL

my dad made the mistake of letting a family friend log some of our land...
ended up with our beautiful woods looking like complete ass and now are growing up with scrub brush something awful.  

Quoted: ROFL my dad made the mistake of letting a family friend log some of our land... ended up with our beautiful woods looking like complete ass and now are growing up with scrub brush something awful.

Looks bad now but that scrub brush will grow into a good forest

Quoted: Out of respect for an ARFCOMMER who just might be honest and legit, I will refrain from relating my stories of assholes in the logging/timber industry.

Actually I am interested in your stories.  I am always courious about what people have to think about the timber industry, their experiences with it and ways to change the negative perception for the better.

Quoted: I now work for a large "home improvement" chain. The stories I could tell... The DIY'er always spends 20 bks to save a nickel...

"You guys got any in the back?"
"this is a working warehouse sir, you ARE in the back."

$17 for a load of cherry logs 5' long?  Hell, the bark was probably worth at least $50.

Have you ever looked into selling the bark of some of your trees VTHOKIESHOOTER?  I used to skin the bark from Sumac, Prickley Ash, and Cherry trees to sell. IIRC I was getting about .40 per pound for Cherry back in the 80s. Prickley Ash was .50 and Sumac was .75.

I may be a lawyer (see other active thread about lawyers), but I sure as hell know the difference between hickory and poplar.

...and at least i'm not in the timber business.  

Since you are a professional, how much (SWAG here) is an adult, non-residential black walnut worth these days?

Quoted: $17 for a load of cherry logs 5' long?  Hell, the bark was probably worth at least $50. Have you ever looked into selling the bark of some of your trees VTHOKIESHOOTER?  I used to skin the bark from Sumac, Prickley Ash, and Cherry trees to sell. IIRC I was getting about .40 per pound for Cherry back in the 80s. Prickley Ash was .50 and Sumac was .75.

Oh yeah we sell the bark as much but you need to put the trees on the debarker to do that.  Worth more to go to the pulpmill than the debarker.

Quoted: Quoted: Out of respect for an ARFCOMMER who just might be honest and legit, I will refrain from relating my stories of assholes in the logging/timber industry. Actually I am interested in your stories.  I am always courious about what people have to think about the timber industry, their experiences with it and ways to change the negative perception for the better.

My parents have about 70 acres of forestland. They are always   being solicited by loggers/foresters about logging off the land. In fact, they've had it logged three times since 1988. Well, almost without fail, the following three things occur everytime they've had it logged:

1. The land is torn to shit when the loggers are done. Not just rutted to kingdom come, but tops and unwanted trees strewn about everywhere. Empty oil bottles and grease tubes on the forest floor, too.

2. Payment is upon completion, or rather, when all the logs are hauled away. Quizzically, the last truckload of logs sits in the landing FOR FIVE FUCKING MONTHS. You know what that means.

3. "What do you mean, our check bounced? If we come down there right now to take care of the matter, will you take cash at a 5% discount?"
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&#@*% Foresters.

Quoted: One of the log truck drivers leaves his truck at the mill every night. Next day is cold as hell and his truck won't start. He decides to spray a bit of ether in the carb to get it to turn over. Has the nozzle pointed straight back at him, full shot of ether right in the kisser. Laughed till I thought I would die over that one. Watching try to fight off the black out he knew was coming was priceless.

Was his truck a diesel?

Quoted: Since you are a professional, how much (SWAG here) is an adult, non-residential black walnut worth these days?

Depends.  In my area black walnut is very scattered in coves and along river banks.  What you do find is usually cankered up badly.  When we do bring in  walnut to the mill the log is brings $410/MBF straight through no matter size or knots or about $290/MBF on the stump .  If we were to get a tract that had a lot of walnut (more than 15%) that was also good quality I would probably be able to put $580 or $460 on the stump but prices for walnut vary from region to region.  Walnut producers in the midwest get the best prices.

Quoted: Quoted: "My forearms are cramping up, This is harder than it looks."    I love playing with saws but after about 2 or 3 hours my back hurts and forearms ache.  No way I could do it 9 hours a day 5 days a week.

Try 16hr days...for 14, 21, or 28 days straight....I need to find me a 250lb woman with strong hands just to rub the knots out...



Not a pig, but a challenge as it had a couple of widowmakers, and was half catfaced out...

As my best friend said years ago, 'idiots can be amusing, yet also dangerous.'

Thanks for the lessons learned.  I plan on "harvesting" one of my huge oak tress in the spring.  I'll drop it and buck it into whatever length sections the sawyer wants and let him do the rest with his woodmizer.

Quoted: 1. The land is torn to shit when the loggers are done. Not just rutted to kingdom come, but tops and unwanted trees strewn about everywhere. Empty oil bottles and grease tubes on the forest floor, too.

Ruts during logging will happen.  It will get muddy as shit but my crews try to smoothe the roads up the best they can and put in water bars.  I usually come through and apply grass seed to the roads and log decks.  Usually buckweat/lezpediza/orchardgrass mixture to stablize the soil and enhance wildlife habitat.  Now the tops/laps/unwanted logs look like shit.  In fact it is the biggest complaint that landowners have.  Bottom line is that unless it is a chipping job you are going to have them.  However while it looks bad those tops are actually benificial.  The tops provide cover for wildlife, help prevent erosion, and return nutrients back into the soil as it rots down.  Oil bottles and chainsaw lube left around pisses me off to no end.  My loggers do it, and just about every one does.  One day I picked up all of the trash around the deck and put it on the front seat of the loggers truck.  I told him next time I do that I will charge him $100 each time to pick up his trash, if I had to do it more than 3X it would go up to $150.  I think he learned his lesson.  

2. Payment is upon completion, or rather, when all the logs are hauled away. Quizzically, the last truckload of logs sits in the landing FOR FIVE FUCKING MONTHS. You know what that means.

You never, ever, ever sell timber on share or per unit.  Always take a lump sum payment and have a good working contract.  Be suspicious of anyone who wants to pay for your timber on share.
Only sell your timber to a reputable lumber company or hire a professional consulting forester who is a member of the ACF.  Having a good consulting forester working for you takes all of the burdon off the landowner and prepares the contract based on what YOU want.  Always ask for references!  Also if you have a forester tell you that the land will be left looking "like a park" he is full of shit.  Unless you are thinning loblolly or slash pine it will look like shit for a few years until the trees start growing.  I have been able to do some "shelterwood" harvests over the past few years where we cut out the junk and leave large oak and white pine trees.  It looks sharp but if you have a bone head logger he will screw it up just as quick by damaging the residual trees.
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Quoted: Try 16hr days...for 14, 21, or 28 days straight....I need to find me a 250lb woman with strong hands just to rub the knots out...

Hell in college I was on the school's fire fighting crew.  Carrying a pack and working with a pulaski for hours on in sucked, let alone having to carry a damn saw.

Quoted: $17 for a load of cherry logs 5' long?  Hell, the bark was probably worth at least $50. Have you ever looked into selling the bark of some of your trees VTHOKIESHOOTER?  I used to skin the bark from Sumac, Prickley Ash, and Cherry trees to sell. IIRC I was getting about .40 per pound for Cherry back in the 80s. Prickley Ash was .50 and Sumac was .75.

Sumac is like weeds here

I'm not a logger -I'm a guy who knows his chainsaw inside and out, and can fell a tree within 2' of where I call it.


THAT SAID:

This flatland boy ain't gonna go up to the northwoods (Da UP, eh!) and invent a job description of "logger" - especially not after seeing pros do it.

I'll stick to firewood & helping friends out.

Quoted:

I keep telling you, you cut up the firewood BEFORE you light it.  Jeez...  

Quoted: Quoted: i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/tscarbaugh/2005_1005Image0077.jpg I keep telling you, you cut up the firewood BEFORE you light it.  Jeez...

Hell Photo, it's alot more fun this way.  You get a chance to see if it is good wood before you have to pack it home, split it, and then stack it.