They say that toy guns are bad, now it's computer games.  True, since they banned toy guns, the focus on guns have shifted to guns on computer games.  The anti-gunners just can't seem to win.  My children know all about the capabilities of a M4, M240, M249, RPG etc.
====================================================================
BBC NEWS
Violent games 'affect behaviour'
Violent computer games may make people more likely to act aggressively, a study says.

Previous research has found people who play such games are more likely to be aggressive but some say this just shows violent people gravitate towards them.

But a team from the University of Missouri-Columbia said their study which monitored the brain activity of 39 game players suggests a causal link.

The findings were published on the New Scientist website.

The researchers measured a type of brain activity called the P300 response which reflects the emotional impact of an image.

The truth is there are many factors that can lead to violence, such as being withdrawn and isolated, so it is hard to say it is because of one thing
Professor David Buckingham, of the Institute of Education

When shown images of real-life violence, people who played violent video games were found to have a diminished response.

However, when the same group were shown other disturbing images such as dead animals or ill children they had a much more natural response.

When the game players were given the opportunity to punish a pretend opponent those with the greatest reduction in P300 meted out the severest punishments.

Psychologist Bruce Bartholow, the lead researcher of the study which will be published in full in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology later this year, said: "As far as I'm aware, this is the first study to show that exposure to violent games has effects on the brain that predict aggressive behaviour.

"People who play a lot of violent video games didn't see them as much different from neutral.

"They become desensitised. However, their responses are still normal for the non-violent negative scenes."

The findings will back up what many have argued over recent years with the growth in games with scenes of graphic violence.

Killer

The parents of murdered Leicester teenager Stefan Pakeerah blamed his killer's obsession with a violent video game called Manhunt for their son's death in 2004.

But some experts still remain unconvinced of a link.

Jonathan Freedman, a psychologist from the University of Toronto in Canada, said: "All we are really getting is desensitisation to images. There's no way to show that this relates to real-life aggression."

And Professor David Buckingham, an expert on the media and children at the Institute of Education, added there was still no consensus on whether violent games caused aggressive behaviour or were just played by violent people.

"The debate we are seeing is very similar to the one that has raged for years about TV. The truth is there are many factors that can lead to violence, such as being withdrawn and isolated, so it is hard to say it is because of one thing.

"In the absence of any proof, I think we have to be agnostic about it. However, I think there is an argument about the morality of some games.

"Some actually encourage amoral behaviour to win the game and I think parents should be talking to their children to make sure they realise this is a joke. Children are generally good at telling fantasy from reality, but parents should be discussing this."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/4594376.stm

Published: 2006/01/09 10:32:53 GMT

© BBC MMVI

Video games have made me contemplate violence, but only against EA for the problems I had with Battlefield 2.

And occasionally the multiplayer games make me want to slap the little 12 year old idiots who play them sometimes.

Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out

Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out

I guess when the BBC wanted to keep the fact that video games cause violent behaviour before the public, and it was a slow news day with no other news to report at the moment.

Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out

except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

Or violent kids are likely to also posses violent video games?

No, bad food and warm beer are more likely to cause this behavior.

Quoted: Or violent kids are likely to also posses violent video games?

there is a correlation; however, if violent sociopaths are attracted to a game, shouldn't that make us atleast a little worried when our own kids play them?

Violent movies where people are flayed and their organs strewn about have no ill-affect on anyone at all.  Go see more overly-violent movies with no plot, inhumane motives and gore, totally useless nudity, and constant murder, and we'll blame video games for everything wrong with the world. This has been a message from your friendly MPAA rep.

Quoted: there is a correlation; however, if violent sociopaths are attracted to a game, shouldn't that make us atleast a little worried when our own kids play them?

Of course not.

We shouldn't be concerned at all.

AND IF YOU DISAGREE, I WILL KNOCK YOU OUT WITH A STICK AND THEN PEEL YOUR SKIN OFF A FEW INCHES AT A TIME WHILE YOU SCREAM IN AGONY!!!

BWAAA HA HA HA HA!!!! EYAAAA HA HA HA!!!!

NOW BRING ME THE BLOOD OF YOUR CHILDREN!!!!! I THIRST!!!!

*Note: The above is a joke.*

Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

Really?  That's interesting.  You see I played them all my life, and watched horror movies with far more realistic effects.   Interestingly I still find it unpleasent to see internal parts of animals.  I find pictures of serious wounds in humans a little stomache-turning.  I cringe when I see a person I know get an injury that causes lots of bleeding or tears flesh.

Why did I not receive my desensitization?  If this is a demonstrable effect where is it?  All the other people I have grown up with and work with are the same.  Either they found violence and gore appealing and sought out entertainment that contained it, or they found it so disturbing they couldn't watch, or they found it disturbing but still liked the tension that those types of entertainment held.

Not one timid little kid, turned into a killing machine psycho because he played Quake, or Doom, or Watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. Really?  That's interesting.  You see I played them all my life, and watched horror movies with far more realistic effects.   Interestingly I still find it unpleasent to see internal parts of animals.  I find pictures of serious wounds in humans a little stomache-turning.  I cringe when I see a person I know get an injury that causes lots of bleeding or tears flesh. Why did I not receive my desensitization?  If this is a demonstrable effect where is it?  All the other people I have grown up with and work with are the same.  Either they found violence and gore appealing and sought out entertainment that contained it, or they found it so disturbing they couldn't watch, or they found it disturbing but still liked the tension that those types of entertainment held. Not one timid little kid, turned into a killing machine psycho because he played Quake, or Doom, or Watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre".

anecdotal evidence proves nothing; i.e. because it may not have affected you does not mean that it has not affected others. Numerous studies have shown that there is a correlation between violent media materials, especially video games(do to the fact it is your "avatar", so to speak, doing the killing on your command), and increased violent thoughts and behavior among youth.

And your last sentence is wrong. Yes, little Timmy may not have gone from sweet innocent youth to murderer... he was already almost there... but violent media may indeed have pushed him over that little "bump" between not giving a shit about your fellow man and actually pulling the trigger.

Quoted: Quoted: Or violent kids are likely to also posses violent video games? there is a correlation; however, if violent sociopaths are attracted to a game, shouldn't that make us atleast a little worried when our own kids play them?

Only if the correlation suggests causality....  In other words, maybe prison inmates seem to like the movie HEAT, but that does not mean that beacuse I like HEAT I am, or am likely to become, a prison inmate.

Now if otherwise good people watched HEAT and then later became prison inmates where people of a similar background and mentality (that's the hard part to test) who did not watch it did not, Then HEAT would be more of a concern.

Violence in imagery of itself is not a danger.  Now combine that with lack of parenting, poor moral background, games that actively promote amoral behaviour, and a kid that "ain't right". and maybe you have a cocktail.  But why should my choice of movies, and entertainment be determined by a few rare mental shitbirds that were never going to be "good decent" people in the first place?  Liberals have trained them what to say....  "The game made me do it".  It's an excuse.... just like "I liearned that on TV" was a way for my generation to blame a box for the stuff that we were doing when we were kids, just like the pool hall was for my dads generation.  

Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

Proof?

If violent video games made people kill, there would be a non-stop bloodbath.  There are millions of people playing these games.  The study shows that a minority of people exposed to them react in a certain way.  They've proved the opposite of what they claim.  

This idea that video games or movies or music making people more likely to commit crimes is someday going to be used against gun owners.  Wait and see if someday they say that gun ownership desensitizes people to violence and makes them more likely to kill.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Or violent kids are likely to also posses violent video games? there is a correlation; however, if violent sociopaths are attracted to a game, shouldn't that make us atleast a little worried when our own kids play them? Only if the correlation suggests causality....  In other words, maybe prison inmates seem to like the movie HEAT, but that does not mean that beacuse I like HEAT I am, or am likely to become, a prison inmate.

No, but it hints that want may attract you to those types of movies is something that is evil and wrong.

Liberals have trained them what to say....  "The game made me do it".  It's an excuse.... just like "I liearned that on TV" was a way for my generation to blame a box for the stuff that we were doing when we were kids, just like the pool hall was for my dads generation.

Doesn't mean they are/were wrong, humans will always find ways to exhibit their sociopathic and anti-social tendencies in a socially acceptable form.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. Really?  That's interesting.  You see I played them all my life, and watched horror movies with far more realistic effects.   Interestingly I still find it unpleasent to see internal parts of animals.  I find pictures of serious wounds in humans a little stomache-turning.  I cringe when I see a person I know get an injury that causes lots of bleeding or tears flesh. Why did I not receive my desensitization?  If this is a demonstrable effect where is it?  All the other people I have grown up with and work with are the same.  Either they found violence and gore appealing and sought out entertainment that contained it, or they found it so disturbing they couldn't watch, or they found it disturbing but still liked the tension that those types of entertainment held. Not one timid little kid, turned into a killing machine psycho because he played Quake, or Doom, or Watched "Texas Chainsaw Massacre". anecdotal evidence proves nothing; i.e. because it may not have affected you does not mean that it has not affected others. Numerous studies have shown that there is a correlation between violent media materials, especially video games(do to the fact it is your "avatar", so to speak, doing the killing on your command), and increased violent thoughts and behavior among youth. And your last sentence is wrong. Yes, little Timmy may not have gone from sweet innocent youth to murderer... he was already almost there... but violent media may indeed have pushed him over that little "bump" between not giving a shit about your fellow man and actually pulling the trigger.

And if I based my life around "studies" I'd be hiding in a closet afraid to draw a breath of air:

BBQ causes cancer.   BBQ is good for you.
Eggs will kill you, Eggs are good.
Alchohol will ruin your life, Wine will help your heart.
Plastics cause birth defects.
We'll all die from second hand smoke.
Having my carpet cleaned will lead to brain damaged kids.
Lead paint on a wall should be handled like a radiation leak from a reactor.
Meat is bad and will kill you.  Meat is good and you need some.
French frys will cause cancer.


My point is that there may be some people who have some bad wiring that go over the edge, but the wiring was there to start with.  Show me a study that PROVES that otherwise well adjusted people become murdering fiends only from violent video games and I'll change my stance.  Otherwise I'll accept that like all else in life, violent games can be enjoyed with proper moderation and guidance.  If your child is dressed like a vampire, likes to decapitate puppies, and decorates his room with autopsy photos then maybe it's time to steer him away from Quake or Grand Theft Auto.

"Studies" rarely prove anything either.... so don't try to get high and mighty about them.  They rarely are without bias and rarely are very effective at eliminating variables especially in dealing with something as broad as a persons psychology.

Despite what Grossman and this "study" says, I have a hard time believing that "shooting" someone in a video game correllates directly to doing it in real life. It's far more likely that of the millions and millions of people that engage in video games of all types, and a few of them do crimes. Probably in the same proportion as people that don't play video games and become whackos.

We shoot at human silhouettes all the time and only a few people "snap" and wig out.

Quoted: Despite what Grossman and this "study" says, I have a hard time believing that "shooting" someone in a video game correllates directly to doing it in real life. It's far more likely that of the millions and millions of people that engage in video games of all types, and a few of them do crimes. Probably in the same proportion as people that don't play video games and become whackos. We shoot at human silhouettes all the time and only a few people "snap" and wig out.

indeed; however, you have a release for your violence, i.e. a bunch of paper targets. Most kids in today's sheltered, safety-bubble world don't have any release for violence or any other anti-social feelings except for those that are illegal.

Quoted: except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

How many million pieces of violent media have been made in the past 30 years alone?

Now, how many millions of crazy killers with no emotions are there?


If any of this crap was true, you would have a 50% chance of getting dismembered by your neighbors son while getting your mail.

Quoted: Quoted: except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. How many million pieces of violent media have been made in the past 30 years alone? Now, how many millions of cray killers with no emotions are there? If any of this crap was true, you would have a 50% chance of getting dismembered by your neighbors son while getting your mail.

did I say that those who have been desensitized to violence will offend criminally? No, I did not, and neither do any of the studies. All they say is that via desensitizing individuals, you remove one of the many barriers preventing us from going ballistic on each other.

Just like watching Fox News removes one of the many barriers from becoming stupid

Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

Complete and utter bollocks.

Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects.

Physicians and paramedics are also desensitized to gore, does that make them more likely to commit murder?

Almost every one of our soldiers who comes back from overseas has become inured to seeing the blood and guts of enemies and friends alike.   Does that make them more likely to commit murder?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. Physicians and paramedics are also desensitized to gore, does that make them more likely to commit murder?

there is a difference between being desensitized to gore and being desensitized to violence, so no. Being desensitized to violence usually includes being desensitized to gore due to the fact that most games, media, and real life events that desensitized people to violence involve gore.

Almost every one of our soldiers who comes back from overseas has become inured to seeing the blood and guts of enemies and friends alike.   Does that make them more likely to commit murder?

Yes, and more likely to be criminals, as shown in the advent of the Vietnam war. More than likely they will just become psychologically unstable and need therapy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Recycled news, they said this shit when Wolfenstein and Doom came out except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. Physicians and paramedics are also desensitized to gore, does that make them more likely to commit murder? there is a difference between being desensitized to gore and being desensitized to violence, so no. Being desensitized to violence usually includes being desensitized to gore due to the fact that most games, media, and real life events that desensitized people to violence involve gore. Almost every one of our soldiers who comes back from overseas has become inured to seeing the blood and guts of enemies and friends alike.   Does that make them more likely to commit murder? Yes, and more likely to be criminals, as shown in the advent of the Vietnam war. More than likely they will just become psychologically unstable and need therapy.

Or they were phychologically ustable and being in a war sparked thier wiring.  


Once again, there are plenty of people who return from a war who are just as kind and decent a person as when they left.  Thier presence, in large numbers, sorta argues against the notion that all men's goodness is eroded by exposure to violence.  Whereas people of already low character may indeed feel more empowered by thier now proven ability to kill.  War is just one of many experiances in life where a persons character may not be up to the challenge.

Quoted: Quoted: Despite what Grossman and this "study" says, I have a hard time believing that "shooting" someone in a video game correllates directly to doing it in real life. It's far more likely that of the millions and millions of people that engage in video games of all types, and a few of them do crimes. Probably in the same proportion as people that don't play video games and become whackos. We shoot at human silhouettes all the time and only a few people "snap" and wig out. indeed; however, you have a release for your violence, i.e. a bunch of paper targets. Most kids in today's sheltered, safety-bubble world don't have any release for violence or any other anti-social feelings except for those that are illegal.

I used to think like you do - especially after reading "On Killing"... But then I got to thinking about it, and connecting the dots. It's about parenting. Parents simply do not do their due diligence when it comes to their children. "It's hard" and crap like that. Watch one of those stupid "Nanny 911" shows for more. Go to malls and watch those brats running around. Nobody parents anymore.

I bet if the BBC - or anyone - did a study based on the decline in parenting, they'd come up with a much better source for this phenomenon of aggression.

Of course, there will always be nutjobs.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: except that they are right, violent video games do desensitize individuals to real life violence, removing one of the metaphorical chains that prevent individuals from killing, i.e. you might still believe the act is wrong, but you don't care about the visual side-effects of the act anymore, in fact, you are excited by the visual side effects. How many million pieces of violent media have been made in the past 30 years alone? Now, how many millions of cray killers with no emotions are there? If any of this crap was true, you would have a 50% chance of getting dismembered by your neighbors son while getting your mail. did I say that those who have been desensitized to violence will offend criminally? No, I did not, and neither do any of the studies. All they say is that via desensitizing individuals, you remove one of the many barriers preventing us from going ballistic on each other. Just like watching Fox News removes one of the many barriers from becoming stupid

I would say that it desensitizes you to seeing the blood and gore of your fellow man slightly.  It also shows that your conscience plays a much bigger role in how you treat other people, then how you feel about seeing the after effects of killing someone causes you to treat someone..

Those suggesting poor parenting are on the mark.  Note that the mass killers in the 80s and 90s were all on psychoactive drugs and most were on multipe drugs.  Psych drugs are far more unpredictable than the public thinks, and EVERY SSRI like Prozac carries  a warning concerning suicide and/or violent behavior.  Overly busy parents have tried to use dope to compensate for their lack of interest in their children, and results in a drug induced inability to control violent impulses.  I think that having no outlet for normal aggressive tendencies also builds up until something precipitates violent behavior.

I have been very careful with my own son to include outlets for that normal male aggressive behavior.  We go target shooting, study martial arts, and most things we do together stil involve some friendly rivalry.  Natural aggressiveness must be channeled.  Bottle it up, and you create a time bomb.

Ops

COme on! Which is it, guns or games, that cause people to be violent?

Quoted: Those suggesting poor parenting are on the mark.  Note that the mass killers in the 80s and 90s were all on psychoactive drugs and most were on multipe drugs.  Psych drugs are far more unpredictable than the public thinks, and EVERY SSRI like Prozac carries  a warning concerning suicide and/or violent behavior.  Overly busy parents have tried to use dope to compensate for their lack of interest in their children, and results in a drug induced inability to control violent impulses.  I think that having no outlet for normal aggressive tendencies also builds up until something precipitates violent behavior. I have been very careful with my own son to include outlets for that normal male aggressive behavior.  We go target shooting, study martial arts, and most things we do together stil involve some friendly rivalry.  Natural aggressiveness must be channeled.  Bottle it up, and you create a time bomb. Ops

I would be with you except for the fact that school shootings are actually down in general since the early 1980's

Quoted: Quoted: Those suggesting poor parenting are on the mark.  Note that the mass killers in the 80s and 90s were all on psychoactive drugs and most were on multipe drugs.  Psych drugs are far more unpredictable than the public thinks, and EVERY SSRI like Prozac carries  a warning concerning suicide and/or violent behavior.  Overly busy parents have tried to use dope to compensate for their lack of interest in their children, and results in a drug induced inability to control violent impulses.  I think that having no outlet for normal aggressive tendencies also builds up until something precipitates violent behavior. I have been very careful with my own son to include outlets for that normal male aggressive behavior.  We go target shooting, study martial arts, and most things we do together stil involve some friendly rivalry.  Natural aggressiveness must be channeled.  Bottle it up, and you create a time bomb. Ops I would be with you except for the fact that school shootings are actually down in general since the early 1980's

Wouldn't this suggest that "violent" video games are GOOD as they provide an outlet for aggression? [shootings are down]

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Those suggesting poor parenting are on the mark.  Note that the mass killers in the 80s and 90s were all on psychoactive drugs and most were on multipe drugs.  Psych drugs are far more unpredictable than the public thinks, and EVERY SSRI like Prozac carries  a warning concerning suicide and/or violent behavior.  Overly busy parents have tried to use dope to compensate for their lack of interest in their children, and results in a drug induced inability to control violent impulses.  I think that having no outlet for normal aggressive tendencies also builds up until something precipitates violent behavior. I have been very careful with my own son to include outlets for that normal male aggressive behavior.  We go target shooting, study martial arts, and most things we do together stil involve some friendly rivalry.  Natural aggressiveness must be channeled.  Bottle it up, and you create a time bomb. Ops I would be with you except for the fact that school shootings are actually down in general since the early 1980's Wouldn't this suggest that "violent" video games are GOOD as they provide an outlet for aggression? [shootings are down]

I may have just lost my case to my own argument

Quoted: Video games have made me contemplate violence, but only against EA for the problems I had with Battlefield 2. And occasionally the multiplayer games make me want to slap the little 12 year old idiots who play them sometimes.

That right there is the only thing to make me contemplate violence.  If the little pimple faced snotnosed twitchmonkey brats were close at hand I'd be in trouble.  A buggy POS game is annoying but you just say "screw it" & uninstall.  Having a good game ruined by TKing, bunny-hopping, 'nade/rocket spamming smacktards is quite frustrating.