news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/year_water_for_sale&printer=1
Pressure to export fresh water likely to grow as U.S. shortages increase

DENNIS BUECKERTSun Jan 1,12:49 PM ET

OTTAWA (Canadian Press) - There was an edge of frustration in Paul Cellucci's voice when he raised the topic of fresh water exports in a radio interview last month.

"Canada has probably one of the largest resources of fresh water in the world," the former U.S. ambassador said during a debate on Canada-U.S. relations.

"Water is going to be - already is - a very valuable commodity and I've always found it odd where Canada is so willing to sell oil and natural gas and uranium and coal, which are by their very nature finite. But talking about water is off the table, and water is renewable.

"It doesn't make any sense to me."

It was as close as any high-profile American has come recently to saying what many Canadians have long suspected - Washington wants our water.

Officially, the U.S. government says it's not interested in Canadian water. But many believe the issue will soon break into the open.

Maclean's magazine recently ran a cover story arguing that Canada should sell its water "before they take it."

"This country is in a position to provide a solution that would yield enormous economic and humanitarian benefits for the entire continent, even the world," the magazine wrote. Such viewpoints don't sit well with Peter Lougheed, the former premier of Alberta.

In a recent speech to the Calgary Chamber of Commerce, Lougheed called for an all-party declaration in the House of Commons confirming Canada's refusal to allow large-scale water transfers to its southern neighbour.

"We should not export our fresh water - we need it and we should conserve it," Lougheed said. "And we should communicate to the United States very quickly how firm we are about it."

U.S. water shortages are becoming critical. Flow in the Colorado River, which feeds the Las Vegas Valley, dropped by almost half between 2000 and 2005 due to successive droughts. Yet Canada has major water problems of its own.

The International Joint Commission has repeatedly warned about declining water quality in the Great Lakes due to toxic contamination, and water levels in the lakes have dropped to record lows.

"Although the Great Lakes contain about 20 per cent of the fresh water on the Earth's surface, only one per cent of this water is renewed each year," the commission noted in a recent report.

Ontario, Quebec and eight states signed a deal earlier this month that will prevent thirsty jurisdictions in the southern U.S. from getting access to water from the Great Lakes.

But critics have said the deal still allows for water to be withdrawn at unacceptable levels.

The biggest threat, though, hangs over Western Canada. The most important rivers in the Prairies are fed by mountain glaciers, and the glaciers are melting due to climate change.

"The consequences of these hydrological changes for water availability . . . are likely to be severe," said a study published last month in the British science journal, Nature.

Cities like Calgary, Edmonton and Saskatoon are at risk of literally losing the rivers on which they are built over the next generation or two.

"It's a huge problem," says Andrew Weaver of the School of Earth and Ocean Sciences at the University of Victoria. "These glaciers are basically toast. They won't be around by the end of the century, or they'll be around in such insignificant amounts that it won't be a big source of water. You've got to start thinking about adaptation here."

The shrinkage of the glaciers is well-documented. Visitors to Glacier National Park in Alberta can follow the retreat of the Athabasca Glacier over the past century by visiting the cairns that used to mark the toe of the glacier.

"That's fossil water and when it's gone, it's gone," said Tim Barnett of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at La Jolla, California, lead author of the article in Nature. "If you really are glacier-fed in a warming world, you're up the creek without a paddle, no pun intended."

Maude Barlow, chairwoman of the Council of Canadians, argues that a global shortage of water will be the most threatening ecological, economic and political crisis in the 21st century. But she says Canada's apparent abundance of blue gold is illusory.

"There is no water to spare in the Great Lakes. The only place one could go for the kind of massive water they're talking about is up north and all those rivers are flowing north, so you'd have to be undertaking huge engineering projects to reverse the flow of water.

"So this notion that we have lots of water sitting around is absolutely false."

Barlow says the federal government can't legally ban bulk water exports because water is included in NAFTA. Ottawa has banned inter-basin transfers but she questions whether the ban could be enforced against a provincial government determined to export.

She rejects the suggestion that Canada would be doing a service to the world by sharing its water: "I think it would end up going to places that can buy it as opposed to places that need it."

Despite evidence that water is being wasted on a massive scale, municipalities still don't charge residents the real cost of water or effectively promote conservation.

Due to budget cuts in recent years, the federal government has cut back on water research, closing monitoring stations and reducing data collection on water supplies. The underground aquifers that store the nation's groundwater haven't been mapped, so there is no way to know if they are being depleted or contaminated.

"As a society we are largely forging ahead blindly when it comes to our management of water," the Senate environment committee said in a report tabled just before the government fell on Nov. 28. "We are in essence gambling with our most precious but often under-appreciated natural resource."

The committee recommended that Ottawa create a National Water Council to develop strategies on key water issues. But its report went virtually unnoticed amid the excitement of the election call.

Asshats.

Canada better watch out.  Because when the USA wants something, we get it.

One way or another.

Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it?

Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it?

First of all, without water we die.

Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant.

And lastly, man can not destroy the planet.

I'm glad I live close to the great lakes and will probably never have to worry about a shortage of water. We get our own water from our own well here so we don't even use city water supplied by the lakes yet. We do waste a lot of water in this country when we try to turn deserts green. This is going to be a big problem for people all over the world, it will be more important to have water then it is to have oil today.

What the hell is Canada going to do? Send terrorist lumberjacks and maple sugar collectors after us? They ship all their Garbage to the US so I figure we'll take their water for good measure. Oh, and how is it THEIR water?

I think it's sad that there are still people in the world that don't understand the basic issues of finite resources.  

They're trying to dehydrate us.....a slow miserable death......INVADE NOW!!!

Quoted: First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet.

"The International Joint Commission has repeatedly warned about declining water quality in the Great Lakes due to toxic contamination, and water levels in the lakes have dropped to record lows."

We did that.

maybe people should have thought of this before building huge cities like los angeles and las vegas in the middle of the desert....

canadians have no obligation to sell us their water.  that's like france saying that we should sell them our oil drilled from the gulf of mexico, because "they need it and they don't have enough of it themselves"

Quoted: Quoted: First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. "The International Joint Commission has repeatedly warned about declining water quality in the Great Lakes due to toxic contamination, and water levels in the lakes have dropped to record lows." We did that.

He said water is a constant...he is correct. The amount of water on earth doesn't change in a meanigful way. When you add up what is in the waters, atmosphere, bound up in ice, etc. it doesn't change.

How pure or usuable it is, is another subject. The amount of water contained within the confines of earth hasn't really changed since 1906 or 0006.....generally speaking....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. "The International Joint Commission has repeatedly warned about declining water quality in the Great Lakes due to toxic contamination, and water levels in the lakes have dropped to record lows." We did that. He said water is a constant...he is correct. The amount of water on earth doesn't change in a meanigful way. When you add up what is in the waters, atmosphere, bound up in ice, etc. it doesn't change. How pure or usuable it is, is another subject. The amount of water contained within the confines of earth hasn't really changed since 1906 or 0006.....generally speaking....

We need better basic science classes in grade school so people can understand these things.  We have got to bring basic scientific literacy into the curriculum.  I can't understand why Heather Has Two Mommies is in our school system and basic chemistry is nowhere to be found.

Quoted: canadians have no obligation to sell us their water.  that's like france saying that we should sell them our oil drilled from the gulf of mexico, because "they need it and they don't have enough of it themselves"

You make no sense at ALL. It is not Canadas water, it is on a shared border if you look at a map.  

Quoted: We need better basic science classes in grade school so people can understand these things.  We have got to bring basic scientific literacy into the curriculum.  I can't understand why Heather Has Two Mommies is in our school system and basic chemistry is nowhere to be found.

Are you disputing that the overall water quality is deteriorating ?

Quoted: Quoted: We need better basic science classes in grade school so people can understand these things.  We have got to bring basic scientific literacy into the curriculum.  I can't understand why Heather Has Two Mommies is in our school system and basic chemistry is nowhere to be found. Are you disputing that the overall water quality is deteriorating ?

No, not at all.  There just seem to be so many people that don't understand basic things about how the world operates in a physical manner.  You dump toxic crap into the water, sooner or later the water is going to be unsuitable for drinking.  It's so basic, and there's so many people that don't understand.

It's so weird to me.  It's like they couldn't care less about what happens to their children.

Quoted: Quoted: canadians have no obligation to sell us their water.  that's like france saying that we should sell them our oil drilled from the gulf of mexico, because "they need it and they don't have enough of it themselves" You make no sense at ALL. It is not Canadas water, it is on a shared border if you look at a map.

then we can pump it ourselves.  and if the northern states make agreements with the canuks to not sell great lakes water to the desert states, then the people in the dry states can either cope with it, or move.  so much water is wasted, just take a stroll through the las vegas strip to see for yourself.    a simple roof rainwater catchment system with storage tanks can also supply a large amount of a home's water needs, even in the desert.  

That's crap!  I just read they send Michigan something like 20 million cubic yards of garbage, but won't send water?

I can't believe the government lets other countries send garbage to the US without taxing it out the ass.  Any private company that makes it's money importing garbage should make maybe 1% of what their paid and the other 99% goes back to the areas that have to live near, and smell the shit.  If it's coming from other states within the US, I honestly have absolutely no problem.  If Illinois, Ohio, Indiana wants to send Michigan their garbage, it doesn't really bother me.  Though, taking Canada's trash is just bullshit.

I don't even buy the need to import water.  Have you seen the Great Lakes???  Go drill a well, or drink from lake Superior.  I just moved to Michigan and it sucks now, we have city water that literally tastes like chlorine.

I saw a show on the history channel some time ago where it was predicted that water will be a natural resource that will be in sort supply of sometime in the future. Currently one of our strong points is the food we produce. We feed a huge part of the world. Even while we are doing this we still drive framers to bankruptcy. Then we take the farmers land for shopping malls restraints hotels, and etc. This leaves us with less food produced and less food in reserves. A farmer’s yield is based entirely on the weather and we know how unpredictable the weather can be.

Back to the point

Politics is the easy part of it. It just takes someone with balls. If the Canadians want to eat American produced food will trade food for water, their money for our food just will not do.  

Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it? First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet.

Water DOES go away! it is not a constant. First off you have to take into consideration the population. The more people there are the more water is needed. Second while the system is self recharging it takes time to recharge and if you drink it faster than it can recharge........you do the math. Third Salt water dont count! try to live on salt water for 10 days. therefore if the glacial caps melt it will end up in the ocean not fresh. Lastly i think people have to realise that global warming is a reality. Every Ice capped mountain in the whole world is shrinking, is that pure coinincidence? The "habitation belt" of all species is shifting towards the North. For example Lobsters are now found less and less at their southern extreme habitation belt but are now found in areas farther north than they ever were before.

Also, man may not be able to "destroy" the planet as in cockaroaches and dandilions will still be around but it might become really bad for humans as they are unable to sustain their food and water which will lead to contraction of population and war. And they will take similiar species with them like apes, bears and other large mammals.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it? First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. Water DOES go away! it is not a constant. First off you have to take into consideration the population. The more people there are the more water is needed. Second while the system is self recharging it takes time to recharge and if you drink it faster than it can recharge........you do the math. Third Salt water dont count! try to live on salt water for 10 days. therefore if the glacial caps melt it will end up in the ocean not fresh. Lastly i think people have to realise that global warming is a reality. Every Ice capped mountain in the whole world is shrinking, is that pure coinincidence? The "habitation belt" of all species is shifting towards the North. For example Lobsters are now found less and less at their southern extreme habitation belt but are now found in areas farther north than they ever were before. Also, man may not be able to "destroy" the planet as in cockaroaches and dandilions will still be around but it might become really bad for humans as they are unable to sustain their food and water which will lead to contraction of population and war. And they will take similiar species with them like apes, bears and other large mammals.

You do realize that the water we drink was at one time dinosaur piss, right?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it? First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. Water DOES go away! it is not a constant. First off you have to take into consideration the population. The more people there are the more water is needed. Second while the system is self recharging it takes time to recharge and if you drink it faster than it can recharge........you do the math. Third Salt water dont count! try to live on salt water for 10 days. therefore if the glacial caps melt it will end up in the ocean not fresh. Lastly i think people have to realise that global warming is a reality. Every Ice capped mountain in the whole world is shrinking, is that pure coinincidence? The "habitation belt" of all species is shifting towards the North. For example Lobsters are now found less and less at their southern extreme habitation belt but are now found in areas farther north than they ever were before. Also, man may not be able to "destroy" the planet as in cockaroaches and dandilions will still be around but it might become really bad for humans as they are unable to sustain their food and water which will lead to contraction of population and war. And they will take similiar species with them like apes, bears and other large mammals. You do realize that the water we drink was at one time dinosaur piss, right?

Yes. Maybe i should clarify. I meant Fresh water goes away. The amount of water on the planet is fixed. But a fat lot of good it does us if it's filled with salt, piss,shit and Benzene.

ETA: whoa, i think i just accidently came upon the secret formula for Coca-Cola.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it? First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. Water DOES go away! it is not a constant. First off you have to take into consideration the population. The more people there are the more water is needed. Second while the system is self recharging it takes time to recharge and if you drink it faster than it can recharge........you do the math. Third Salt water dont count! try to live on salt water for 10 days. therefore if the glacial caps melt it will end up in the ocean not fresh. Lastly i think people have to realise that global warming is a reality. Every Ice capped mountain in the whole world is shrinking, is that pure coinincidence? The "habitation belt" of all species is shifting towards the North. For example Lobsters are now found less and less at their southern extreme habitation belt but are now found in areas farther north than they ever were before. Also, man may not be able to "destroy" the planet as in cockaroaches and dandilions will still be around but it might become really bad for humans as they are unable to sustain their food and water which will lead to contraction of population and war. And they will take similiar species with them like apes, bears and other large mammals.

But all of those salt water oceans evaporate under the sun, the moisture forms clouds and then those clouds move over land and drop unsalinated rain (whoa, instant drinking water!!)  The amount of water on the planet has not changed one ounce since the earth was formed

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pretty sad day when we'd think about taking WATER of all things by force. Maybe a little conservation and maintenance of what we have within our borders is called for. But of course,there are people here who say that humanity doesn't have any measureable impact on the planet,so why try to conserve or protect any of it? First of all, without water we die. Seond of all, water does not go away, it is a constant. And lastly, man can not destroy the planet. Water DOES go away! it is not a constant. First off you have to take into consideration the population. The more people there are the more water is needed. Second while the system is self recharging it takes time to recharge and if you drink it faster than it can recharge........you do the math. Third Salt water dont count! try to live on salt water for 10 days. therefore if the glacial caps melt it will end up in the ocean not fresh. Lastly i think people have to realise that global warming is a reality. Every Ice capped mountain in the whole world is shrinking, is that pure coinincidence? The "habitation belt" of all species is shifting towards the North. For example Lobsters are now found less and less at their southern extreme habitation belt but are now found in areas farther north than they ever were before. Also, man may not be able to "destroy" the planet as in cockaroaches and dandilions will still be around but it might become really bad for humans as they are unable to sustain their food and water which will lead to contraction of population and war. And they will take similiar species with them like apes, bears and other large mammals.

.

Taking water from the Great Lakes to give to a buch of morons who want to live in the desert, water their lawns and keep their pools filled is just flat out ridiculous. This would have disastorous consequences to the Great Lakes ecosystems and be very costly to towns that are on the lakes as water levels diminish.

Per capita water use in parts of the soutwest is as high as 500 gal/day. Get a fucking clue already.

If you want to live in the desert, then you live in the desert. If you want more water, desalinate ocean water and pipe it in. That is an almost infinite resource.

Fresh water is not as renewal a resource as some would have you believe.

This is a none issue.

The US has billions of gallons of water at its disposal....it has the Pacific Ocean on one side and the Atlantic on the other.

All it will take it for the cost of fresh water to increase to make it profitable to desalinate.  

Problem solved.

Quoted: Taking water from the Great Lakes to give to a buch of morons who want to live in the desert, water their lawns and keep their pools filled is just flat out ridiculous. This would have disastorous consequences to the Great Lakes ecosystems and be very costly to towns that are on the lakes as water levels diminish. Per capita water use in parts of the soutwest is as high as 500 gal/day. Get a fucking clue already. If you want to live in the desert, then you live in the desert. If you want more water, desalinate ocean water and pipe it in. That is an almost infinite resource. Fresh water is not as renewal a resource as some would have you believe.

+1

Quoted: I think it's sad that there are still people in the world that don't understand the basic issues of finite resources.

Wait a minute......water is finite?

Since when?

And...hows that flooding doing in NorCal right now?

Quoted: It's so weird to me.  It's like they couldn't care less about what happens to their children.

I have 2 children.

How many do you have junior?

Quoted: I don't even buy the need to import water.  Have you seen the Great Lakes???  Go drill a well, or drink from lake Superior.  I just moved to Michigan and it sucks now, we have city water that literally tastes like chlorine.

It isn't the people who live near the great lakes that want the water. It is people who live in the desert south west. How do you feel about building giant pipelines from the great lakes we have here so we can supply the people out in the desert 2000 miles away? Do you mind if that makes the lakes unusable for us then?

Fuck Canada.

Canada will sell anything to anyone, they just have not heard the magic$$$ amount.

Quoted: It isn't the people who live near the great lakes that want the water. It is people who live in the desert south west. How do you feel about building giant pipelines from the great lakes we have here so we can supply the people out in the desert 2000 miles away? Do you mind if that makes the lakes unusable for us then?

Some parts of the country should simply be seen as uninhabitable. If you have to go to that length to make it habitable, why go to that extreme? It is sand and nothing else. Live somewhere where you don't need to pipe water in that far.

There will be major wars fought over water.

I doubt it will be between the US and Canada though.  I think it will probably be between North America and a lot of the rest of the world.

Quoted: Quoted: Taking water from the Great Lakes to give to a buch of morons who want to live in the desert, water their lawns and keep their pools filled is just flat out ridiculous. This would have disastorous consequences to the Great Lakes ecosystems and be very costly to towns that are on the lakes as water levels diminish. Per capita water use in parts of the soutwest is as high as 500 gal/day. Get a fucking clue already. If you want to live in the desert, then you live in the desert. If you want more water, desalinate ocean water and pipe it in. That is an almost infinite resource. Fresh water is not as renewal a resource as some would have you believe. +1

+1

Who cares if Canada does not want to sell water.  

The oceans don't have fresh water, but they can't be totally discounted as water sources. A few years ago I heard they were building a desalination plant attatched to a nearby power plant. I'm pretty sure they finished building it by now, I think it uses some kind of selectively permeable membrane to let water through but not the salt.

So salt water does count as drinking water. There's just an extra desalination step in there added to purifictation and any chemical treatments.

geocities.com/kfuller2001/tmyths.htm#myth3

Quoted: This is a none issue. The US has billions of gallons of water at its disposal....it has the Pacific Ocean on one side and the Atlantic on the other. All it will take it for the cost of fresh water to increase to make it profitable to desalinate.   Problem solved.

Ahh, supply and demand. Yea that's right, I (who lives right next to Lake Michigan) should pay double or triple for water because Californians want to practice socialism in the desert?

Quoted: Quoted: I don't even buy the need to import water.  Have you seen the Great Lakes???  Go drill a well, or drink from lake Superior.  I just moved to Michigan and it sucks now, we have city water that literally tastes like chlorine. It isn't the people who live near the great lakes that want the water. It is people who live in the desert south west. How do you feel about building giant pipelines from the great lakes we have here so we can supply the people out in the desert 2000 miles away? Do you mind if that makes the lakes unusable for us then?

Good call... but, I see it as better they take water from the Great Lakes and it's really fucking expensive (to the point that they don't water their lawns with it), than they all abandon the desert states and jam into Great Lake states like hippies flocking to the Pacific Ocean, or old people flocking to Florida.

Quoted: Taking water from the Great Lakes to give to a buch of morons who want to live in the desert, water their lawns and keep their pools filled is just flat out ridiculous. This would have disastorous consequences to the Great Lakes ecosystems and be very costly to towns that are on the lakes as water levels diminish. Per capita water use in parts of the soutwest is as high as 500 gal/day. Get a fucking clue already. If you want to live in the desert, then you live in the desert. If you want more water, desalinate ocean water and pipe it in. That is an almost infinite resource. Fresh water is not as renewal a resource as some would have you believe.

+1.

The Great Lakes shouldn't be gutted to keep some goddamned lawn in Arizona looking green.

Quoted: Quoted: I think it's sad that there are still people in the world that don't understand the basic issues of finite resources.   Wait a minute......water is finite? Since when? And...hows that flooding doing in NorCal right now?

Yes, water is finite.  Since... well, since now, anyway.

Water is finite.  Water is also renewable.   Two different issues.  

If you take a bucket of water and piss in it, you can no longer drink from that water.  If you let half of that water evaporate and then add half a bucket of clean water, do you want to drink from that bucket?

I'm surprised nobody noticed the bit where the envirobimbo said that they didn't want to sell their water to those who could afford to buy it, but only to those who would "need" it.

Furthermore, I didn't notice anyone claiming that the U.S. was going to start peeing in (or otherwise polluting) Canadian lakes and rivers, only that the Canadians didn't want to sell clean water to the U.S. under any circumstances.

But whatever.  Over here in the Renegade Province, we've gotta use RO filters on tap water to make it drinkable.  Works fine for us.

News flash, wars are fought over resources.