Where any of Saddam's military forces prior to the war worth a damn?

Did they surrender in droves because they didn't want to fight, or because they didn't want to fight for Saddam?

Will the Iraqi military that our military is training hold up better than the Iraqi military that our military beat the shit out of?

Yes I believe this military will be better than before.

Not because of training, but rather because now theyare fighting for their own country, not for Sadam's country.

Motivation is key.

only those over there actually doing the training can answer this question with any authority....

ETA.. is something i am very interested in. is key to a successful conclusion to the war. as is the ability of the iraqis to form some sort of government that can maintain order...

Quoted: Where any of Saddam's military forces prior to the war worth a damn? Did they surrender in droves because they didn't want to fight, or because they didn't want to fight for Saddam? Will the Iraqi military that our military is training hold up better than the Iraqi military that our military beat the shit out of?

The Feyadeen(sp) were some of the more elite fighters......as well as the "Republican Guard", IIRC.

The Feyadeen were some of the ones doing the fighting in '03/'04 in places like Basrah, Fallujah, Tikrit, and some in Mosul.  They were very loyal to him.

They surrendered in droves because they didnt get food under Saddam's control.  When we took them as POW's, we gave them food and water and shelter.

It will be a little better but you can't polish a turd.

The Feyadeen more struck me as determined fighters, than elite ones. Kindof like the Italian Blackshirt divisions in WWII. Very enthusiastic, just can't do anything.

The Russian trainers of Saddam's old army apparently categorised even the Republican Guard as hopelessly incompetent. Some of their officers had the right idea on occasion, and weren't completely tacitcally useless, but the overall force was terrible.

The only problem with our attempts to make a decent army out of the Iraqis is in trying to overcome Arabic culture. I posted an article here a while ago called 'Why arabs lose wars', which covers this issue.

That said, the Jordanians are supposed to be quite competent, and I'm not entirely sure how they got around it. Then again, they are also one of the more 'western' arab countries.

NTM