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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:32:38 PM EDT
[#1]
In before the JBT defenders.....
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:33:23 PM EDT
[#2]
I forecast another shitstorm in this thread.
IBTL  |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:33:50 PM EDT
[#3]
In before the religious wacko defenders.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:34:15 PM EDT
[#4]
i'm sure the JBTs will say that" they brought it on themselves/it's there own fault/they were law breakers"
and "We're just here to help" |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:35:33 PM EDT
[#5]
How sad
 there is honestly not much that I see that makes me sad and sick inside, but these pics do |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:36:02 PM EDT
[#6]
The BD's shouldve hada better defense plan, but I guess this is what happens when youre not looking for a fight.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:38:00 PM EDT
[#7]
what a bunch of scumbags......looking at that makes me sick.......
Goddamn you Janet Reno and Bill Clinton too, burn in hell! 
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:38:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Yes Koresh was a wacko, but last I checked this is supposed to be a free country. You did read that texas DPS investigated Koresh and found that the people there were happy and healthy, right? His sins were certainly not sufficient to justify those charred girls by the hand of government agents. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:40:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Real Americans dont work for the BATFE.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:41:17 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't know about that. Like any other job, I'm sure there are a few good guys. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:41:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Friends dont let friends work for the BATFE.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:44:06 PM EDT
[#12]
damn, thats a pretty shitty way to die.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:44:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Maybe the ones who focus on alcohol, tobacco, and explosives related offenses. Anybody who supports firearms regulation shouldnt be allowed to touch a firearm or enforce any law within our borders, regardless of how "nice" they appear. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:48:53 PM EDT
[#14]
I was too young then to pay attention to the news.
What was the Governments motives behind this event? |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:49:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Noob question: What does JBT stand for?
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:49:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Jack boot thug |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:50:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Jack Booted Thug, think the Nazi SS with their tall black boots stomping all over defenseless civilians all over Europe with no regard to civil liberties or rights, same concept.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:50:48 PM EDT
[#18]
I posted this last week on the huge Waco/Ambush topic.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:52:31 PM EDT
[#19]
The important thing is those burnt up little girls aren't being molested by a religious wack job anymore. Yay government. 
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:53:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Waco was a bunch of bullshit followed up by a typical bureaucratic clusterfuck.
Unless he was threatening to kill everyone, he should have been waited out. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:57:07 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:01:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Upcoming budget hearings. ATF was going to be downsized. And the Clinton administration was really hip on "militias" and "domestic terrorists", they were really looking for an opportunity to send a message. They raided Mt. Carmel under the pretext that he possessed illegal hand grenades. However, he actually had demilled ones and they made those "Complaint dept - take a number" desktop grenade props with them. He sold them at gunshows. Another charge was that he possessed illegally converted AK47's. I don't think that was ever proven. They had actually hung out and shot at the range with Koresh, and I think they knew he would fight if the opportunity presented itself in a certain way. So they called up the media in advance, and brought them to Mr. Carmel, giving them a front seat view, then gave him those circumstances and then fired up the building until they started to defend themselves. Once the fight was on, all semblance of reason was lost, and obviously it became a "must win" for the ATF and FBI forces on scene. After all, when was the last time you met even a street cop that would "back down" from resistance? When the ATF stopped trying to make entry and pulled back, the Davidians stopped firing back.....textbook defensive mode IMO. There were women calling 911 from inside the compound pleading for help. ATF then enlisted help from SFOD-D including Psy Ops, a Bradley I believe it was, and a Blackhawk. They besieged the Davidians while they fed the media unsubstantiated rumors and interviewed the neighbors long enough to let them turn Koresh into a meth dealing, baby abusing, child raping brainwashing cultmaster, and once it had gone on long enough to convince the entire country that the Davidians were Satan incarnate, they went in with a tank, pumped CS gas into the place, and threw in incendiary gas grenades while firing up the back door to prevent anyone from escaping the inferno. To cap it off....on top of the building and the dead bodies you see in those pics, they hoisted the ATF flag on the smoldering ruins. Very proud they were. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:02:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Disturbing pictures of the collateral damage....
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:06:47 PM EDT
[#24]
And some of them are really "good guys"... 
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:09:38 PM EDT
[#25]
I don't know that the ENTIRE ATF was involved, most likely just the leadership people and agents from that area. And perhaps there are guys like us working there, trying to change them from the inside. Ya know? Never mind, you probably don't.......
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:10:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Sometimes, when mommy and daddy are doomsday cultists, shit happens.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:10:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Yup. Exactly the same. I don't want to get into a whole LEO/JBT/ATF/Waco/etc. debate. But anyone who honestly thinks the Nazi SS is comprable to American LEO's either knows nothing of history or has thier tinfoil on too tight. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:11:46 PM EDT
[#28]
ok thanks for the sum up. All I knew was that there was a standoff, shooting, fire, armored vehicles. Bunch of he said she said. I didnt do it they did. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:13:45 PM EDT
[#29]
My bumpersticker for several years:
Is Your Church BATF Approved? |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:14:00 PM EDT
[#30]
All I can hope for is, like the Weaver stand off, take at least one of the bastards with ya'.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:14:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Reminds me of a bumper sticker I used to have:
"Is your church ATF approved?" |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:15:40 PM EDT
[#32]
FOAD  this is not just "shit happens" this is horrible. Children never deserve anything of this nature. When it does it is a tragedy, not "shit happens" |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:18:02 PM EDT
[#33]
If you havn't yet, read this. and then watch Waco: Rules of Engagement |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:20:24 PM EDT
[#34]
Only change that should be made is disbandment, with the alcohol and tobacco being pushed to the DEA and explosives to the FBI. The city/state/federal govts have no right or authority to impose any restriction or regulation on any type of firearm and is what causes the BATFE to be a criminal element within our own govt.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:21:13 PM EDT
[#35]
What a world we live in...
Makes you wonder just how correct the Tin Foil hat guys are...
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:23:56 PM EDT
[#36]
And mommy and daddy dont have a right to be doomsday cultist in the US? I think if you knew what me and many other mainstream christians believe you would think we were doomsday cultists too right? You are a very cold hearted individual that lacks the basic understanding of liberty. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:27:06 PM EDT
[#37]
Tomislav, do I have to follow you over to this thread to keep you in line?  Sometimes, when mommy and daddy are JBTs, they are going to burn little girls and boys.... |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:33:00 PM EDT
[#38]
I never said that they do not. But like Waco, Heaven's Gate, and Jonestown demonstrate, shit indeed does sometimes happen with those folks. Not a damned thing that can be realistically done about it.
Actually, that is also true, as the Nazis and other malcontents have shown. Shit happens a lot, but we are nowhere near having state-sanctioned deathsquad cops running around. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:35:58 PM EDT
[#39]
But should it be a government orginisation that causes this "shit"? |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:36:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Maybe so but what is worse? Being stuck in a doomsday cult or being burned alive? |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:44:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Refer To OKC, Daycare Im not saying it was right. If you read my FOAD reply in this thread(page 2) you know how I feel about kids being harmed. It is merely a flip of the coin for some people here to think on |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:47:23 PM EDT
[#42]
oh really?  Lon Horiuchi |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:51:24 PM EDT
[#43]
As PISSED as I get about Waco, the fact that these threads keep coming back like a festering sore for the FBI/ATF makes me feel warm and fizzy inside.
Dave |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:53:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Don't try logic it will just confuse some people. BigDozer66 |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:55:06 PM EDT
[#45]
ATF was only in charge for the initial raid. After that FBI was called in. Equal blame IMO.
Dave |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Until your sitting in the big chair at the top of the organization, youre not going to have much effect. Best bet is to find a new organization, like the FBI, DEA, Border Patrol; stay away from the souless tax collectors agency. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:59:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Oh boo freaking hoo.
Both sides fucked up bad, Lots of people made stupid decisions, if their parents had decided that getting out of Dodge when the shit hit the fan they might have lived to fight or pray or sue in court another day. Read about what some of the idiots around here say they will do if a search warant ever gets served, do they try and get it fixed the way they should, in a legal manner after the fact? or do they intend do die in their own little fart of glory. |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 9:02:19 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 12/29/2005 9:11:17 PM EDT
[#49]
children are dead at the hands of the US gov i hope you never have or will breed |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#50]
I'm not happy at all about what the government (particularly Janet Reno and Bill Clinton) did at Waco, there is no denying the fact that David Koresh was an Grade A screw ball and a dangerous one at that. He bears some of the responsibility for those photographs as well. But I can comfort myself with the knowledge that he is roasting in hell for his part.
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