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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:58:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm pretty sure you would die. =)
I'm only in 1st year med school, I'll have to ask about that. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:58:32 PM EDT
[#2]
you'd probably puke most of it up and chew your tongue off
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Posted: 12/16/2005 5:59:20 PM EDT
[#3]
Send me your guns and then try it!
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:00:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I would die. Then again I'm allergic to the stuff.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:04:23 PM EDT
[#6]
No, your body would not go numb. If you take a lethal overdose of novacaine you would have seizures then cardiac arrest.  You have to be careful not to inject a vein directly with the drug when used as a local anesthetic. In diluted IV form it is used as an anti-arrhythmic.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:05:18 PM EDT
[#7]
There is much suffering in your future. 
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:09:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Your throat will go numb and you will choke on your own spit and die a miserable death. Maybe.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 6:16:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Unlikely to kill you. Maybe, if you were allergic to amide type anesthetics.
A dose to affect the CNS is 6 mcg/ml, given average of 5 liters of blood in the typical adult, 30,000 mikes, or 30 grams would need to be introduced to the bloodstream. A lethal dose is even higher than that. So considering that lidocaine is usually 1 or 2% concentration (10 or 20 mg/ml) you would need to drink a shitload, also, systemic absorption from oral injestion is never as high as intravenous administration. Might give you a nice bellyache though. |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:20:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Dude, Not tryin' to be a dick, but will it kill me or not? 4 oz novacaine down the gullet, or not?> |
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:35:15 PM EDT
[#11]
As one who injects a lot of people with it, I'd have to say no, it won't kill you unless you have an allergy to it. Our rule of thumb injectable limit on 2% Xylocaine with 1:100,000 epi is about 10 carpules for someone without heart problems. That's 18ml. It has a relatively high first pass effect and you are unlikely to be affected by it. You won't go numb, but it may make you sick.
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Posted: 12/16/2005 10:37:28 PM EDT
[#12]
try it and post pics
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:05:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Drinking 4 oz. is unlikely to kill you, but I still wouldn't recommend it. If you injected 4 oz, call the morgue first, and reserve a slab, especially if it is intravenous, probably intramuscular or subcutaneous too. Sorry to be confusing in my post above, I was kinda thinking out loud. There is a huge difference between taking most drugs orally, versus injecting them. As a general rule, most drugs can be taken in much higher doses by mouth than injecting. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:09:25 AM EDT
[#14]
I disagree. Novacaine will instantly be absorbed by the mucosal surfaces in the oral cavity and thee blood levels will increase significantly and quickly. I think C-4 has it correctly. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:16:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Interesting post.
Fish223 and C-4, what are your occupations? 
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:20:02 AM EDT
[#16]
When did a shot glass become 4 ounces ? |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:27:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Transmucosal absorption of lidocaine is actually slow, and shallow. Hence the difficulty with mucosal anesthesia with topical application of viscous lidocaine, or even 20% benzocaine. Lidocaine is available at 1% and 2%, so 4 ounces of 2% would contain (120 ml times 20 mg/ml) 2400 mg of pure lidocaine. Assuming perfect, immediate absorption, the plama level of a normal adult would get to 2mg/ml. the oral LD 50 of lido is 459 (346-773) mg/kg, which is 32,130 mg for a 70 kg adult Conclusion is you are less than 1 tenth lethal dose with 4 ounces. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 8:28:09 AM EDT
[#18]
see sig line |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:09:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Nice.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:27:15 AM EDT
[#20]
That is for rats (although I see that you got your numbers from the PDR as well ). The LD50 for humans is most often unavailable because it's difficult to get volunteers. Often, the LD50 dose can be ten times smaller in humans than in rats or mice.According to the PDR, the maximum recommended total subcutaneous dosage of lidocaine with epinephrine is 3.5mg/lb not to exceed 500mg. For lidocaine without epi it's 2mg/lb not to exceed 300mg. Without epi, that translates into 15ml (cc's) of a 2% soln. Now back to the original question: If I drank a shot-glass full of novacaine would my body go numb, or would I just die? A shot glass contains one fluid ounce which is about 28ml. The maximum recommended dose is for lidocaine given by needle injection, not orally. Lidocaine is rapidly metabolized by the liver. You are drinking a dose that if given by injection could kill two people. But since most (some of it will be absorbed in the oral mucosa, esophagus, stomach lining, etc.) of the lidocaine has to pass through the liver before reaching the heart and brain, you are hoping that over half of the drug gets detoxified. Now you'd have to ask a pharmacist exactly how much of the lidocaine actually gets metabolized on its first pass through the liver, but if it isn't over 50%, then you are seriously putting your life at risk. Now if you drank 4 oz, you would likely die. Listen to fish223 and me. Don't do it.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:34:45 AM EDT
[#21]
First of all he said procaine and not lidocaine. Second, I disagree with the shallow absorption. From your mouth all the way to the stomach you going to start absorbing the med. Second even if not in sufficient quantities in you bloodstream, it may make your gag reflex not work and you may choke to death.
Second, it tastes like shit. Third, I have seen a women get a direct infusion of lidocaine and the cardiovascular effects made you shit. And we are not talking about the patient. After her heart was back in rthyhm we had to bag her for a loonnng time. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:39:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Why ask? Planning on swallowing a shaved gerbil?
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:53:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Sorry, I had a brain fart. Novocaine = procaine which is 3 times less toxic than lidocaine. I wonder if there is a recreational use for desensitizing someones gag reflex. Hmmm . . . . |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Beat me to it! 
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#25]
C-4 I didnt mean to correct you. Not at all. But I think in this case it may make a difference. We had a hooker come in and she couldnt feel her mouth. She thought something was wrong. It turned out the guy is a ICU nurse. He got some lidocaine gel and put it on his dick because he didnt want come too fast. So we have this hooker with a numb mouth. The jokes were flying in the ER that night. 
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:18:48 AM EDT
[#26]
A “GI Cocktail with Lidocaine” consists of:
A. Maalox Plus 30cc P.O. B. Elixir Donnatal 10cc P.O. C. Viscous Lidocaine 5cc P.O. About 100cc in 4 ozs. When we do digital/foot/ankle injections it is normally <20cc 1% Lidocaine (Xylocaine) plain (without Epi). That is injected into the soft tissue, avoiding the blood vessels. Per the ER Doc--someone gets a metallic taste in their mouth from the lidocaine, grab the Valium because they are going to have a siezure. I would go with ARDoc--that much will be absorbed and would exceed a toxic dose. PS--Novacaine is not used much anymore (it is an Ester, as was pointed out before--they cause more allergic reactions than the Amides--Lidocaine, Marcaine, Carbocaine). AFARR Edited to add: Your dentist probably used Carbocaine (per a classmated of mine that was a dental assistant before going back to school). Probably only used <3cc of the stuff to numb you up. Stock bottles of injectable Lidocaine normally come in 10cc or 20cc bottles). |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 4:45:19 PM EDT
[#27]
I discussed lido because when he said he went to the dentist and got novocaine, I knew he really meant lidocaine. Dentists haven't used actual novocaine in years, decades even.
In any event, ARDOC is right, it tastes like shit, and I don't think anyone would voluntarily drink it. Also, C-4 is correct in pointing out the LD 50 is studied in rats, and humans can be much more sensitive. So there probably isn't the saftey margin that I mentioned, but still, injesting 4 oz is probably not gonna kill a healthy 70kg adult. Wolffie pointed out that dentists stay under 18ml 2% injected, but that is not intravenous, and also, most dentists use lido with epi for vasoconstriction, and as such, the epi component has its own set of issues. Lastly, geezhound, although we all arrived at similar conclusions for various different reasons, we all agree that it is not a good idea. So unless you were planning on maybe getting a Darwin Award in the 2005 presentations, lets keep this academic, and not try it out. Fish |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:37:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Not to bring this up again, but if I remember right Lido has a 70% first pass effect. Carbocaine (Mepivicaine) has a much shorter duration of action, and is generally more expensive than Xylocaine (Lido). Depending on the procedure, I'd guess that he had Lido. The limit for Mepivicaine is 4 carpules for your average 70Kg patient.
I'm still in school, so my pt. base is pretty small, but the last time I used Carbocaine was to avoid drug interactions with a cocaine user. Moot point, it's still not a good idea. Macumazahn: If I can offer one piece of advice: Oh, Oh, Oh, To Touch And Feel A Vigin Girls Vagina And Hiney Some Say Money Matter Most, But Brother Says Big Breasts Matter More Just curious if anyone else recognizes that?
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Posted: 12/17/2005 10:39:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Cranial nerves
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:53:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Here's another way of asking it (by someone who knows nothing about it);
Would it croak the dude if it was actual Novocaine, and was straight rather than all the % per ml and stuff you guys were saying? (Totally discounting whether it's in common use or he could actually get it. Not mixed with anything or diluted, but just plain ol' Novocaine). 
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:40:01 AM EDT
[#31]
That's a bit like asking if your car will run on crude oil if you go to the gas station and get some to try.... He would have to go to the manufacturer to get it--I'd guess that is is a crystaline solid usually provided in suspension, but I don't have a PDR handy to check. That would be like eating a shotglass of salt. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 8:38:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Wolffie, check the books. Its Oh, OH, OH, to touch and feel virgin girls vagina and hiney (you added an extra "A" after feel.) olfactory, optic, oculomotor, trochlear, trigeminal, abducens, facial, vestibulocochlear, glossopharyngeal, vagus, accessory, hypoglossal and the other one is some say marry money but my mother says big boobs matter most if you do it your way you get some sensory and motor mixed up and don't forget, "as she lay flat, oscars penis slipped in" let me know if you can't figure it out. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 8:59:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Fish223 - check the books as well:
Facial nerve is sensory & motor - change "mother" to "brother" I learned the other one a bit differently, but branches of ECA. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 10:05:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Its the max dose that will kill ya, not the number of oz's, need to know the concentration selected first. Max dose for Novacain in a 70kg pt is 800mg. With that said, there is a fair safety margin. Ingesting it would most likely break down the protiens and render most of it ineffective. Its pKA 8.9 and stomach acid is a LOT lower than that, so even if it survived, it would move very slowly accross the gut mucosa.
Plastic surgeons routinly laugh at me when I tell them the max dose of Lidocain is 500mg, as they inject upwards of a thousand, with epi of course, but still! Esters are still used, I use them for spinals all the time, they work great for hypobaric spinals. Wally |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:00:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Wally,
The way I learned it is that the max dose of Lidocaine is based on intravascular injection. Injecting into the soft tissue leaches into the vascular system a bit more slowly (allows it to clear). Epi increases the max dose bay about 1.5x (slower vascular absorbtion).. AFARR |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#36]
First of all Novacaine is no longer used because of allergic reactions with the preservatives in it.
If you are talking about lidocaine, the answer is nothing if you are not allergic to it whick I would doubt. I give 30 ccs (1 ounce)of it all the time to people with stomach/troat pain. Numb mouth, throat and gut, posssible elevated heart rate but I doubt it with oral solution.. It will stay numb about 30-40 minutes. ETA carbocaine is only used in cardiac patients. Carbocaines hal life if fat too short as it has only neocobefrin as a vasoconstictor. There are 2 types of local anesthesias, amides and esters. Drink away. Bob RN, 1st sx asst, Former Dental Hygienist |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 6:13:20 PM EDT
[#37]
My Bad. I guess I got sloppy and it's been a while. After a while they started to click and I haven't relied on it since my gross final. But, I'm glad you straightened it out, because I've got the NDBE Part I tomorrow.  I've been putting it off.I don't know the other one. |
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Posted: 12/18/2005 7:56:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Closest I could find is the branches of the External Carotid:
Sally Superior Thyroid Ann Ascending Pharyngeal Likes Lingual Flirting Facial On Occipital Philidelphia's Posterior auricular Main Maxillary Street Superficial temporal |
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