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Posted: 7/27/2001 10:36:42 AM EDT
[#1]
A bayonet lug is only 1 of the 5 evil features. You have to have 3 or more to make a rifle configured preban. You can only put one more evil feature on it. If you loose the bayonet lug and keep the fixed mag you can put a pistol grip and folding stock on it.
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Posted: 7/27/2001 10:37:24 AM EDT
[#2]
The Romainian SKS's are not pre-ban, in the sense that they were not imported before the ban. They are allowed to retain the Bayonet because they are classified as a curio and relic. A folding stock on one is a no-no. Also, a bayonet lug on a true pre-ban SKS does not always make it pre-ban, as it has to have had 2 of the evil features before the ban, Since the SKS uses a fixed magazine it has only one.
You will run into the same thing on the M-1, unless it has a bayonet lug (most of the Universal copies did not) it is not a pre-ban. Confused yet? |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 10:41:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: A bayonet lug is only 1 of the 5 evil features. You have to have 3 or more to make a rifle configured preban. You can only put one more evil feature on it. If you loose the bayonet lug and keep the fixed mag you can put a pistol grip and folding stock on it. A folding stock does not count on the evil features list, they are: Pistol grip Detachable mag Bayonet Lug Flash hider Grenade launcher A folder on any post-ban is a no-no, period. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 10:58:26 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the replies. Heres a couple more questions.
*You will run into the same thing on the M-1, unless it has a bayonet lug (most of the Universal copies did not) it is not a pre-ban.* So if the M1 Carbine doesnt have a bayonet lug it is postban? If I get an M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug this makes it preban? Then would I be able to put the M1A1 folding stock on it? Private_Joker |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 11:09:08 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm not a lawyer, but AFIK, an M-1 carbine, made in 1944, and arsenal retrofitted with bayo lug, should be ok to recieve a folding stock. Anybody know anything to the contrary?
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Posted: 7/27/2001 11:12:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Thanks for the replies. Heres a couple more questions. *You will run into the same thing on the M-1, unless it has a bayonet lug (most of the Universal copies did not) it is not a pre-ban.* So if the M1 Carbine doesnt have a bayonet lug it is postban? If I get an M1 Carbine with a bayonet lug this makes it preban? Then would I be able to put the M1A1 folding stock on it? Private_Joker Nope. Just because it has a bayonet lug does not make it pre-ban, as the newly made IAI ones do. Bayonet lug + Detachable mag is still post ban legal. If you want to make a folding stock carbine do it with a real USGI. The ATF would ahve a hard time proving that it had never in its 50 year life had either a folding stock, grenade launcher, or flash hider attached. I actually erred in my first post, it would have had to have had a bayo lug and one of the above to be pre-ban. But since you could argue that almost every USG carbine had a grenade launcher used on it at soem tim in its life that it is a pre-ban. Even if it was put on in 1944, it's still pre-ban. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 11:41:10 AM EDT
[#7]
That makes more sense. So who are the USGI manufactures? Inland, Winchester ? What about these Blue Skies imports?
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Posted: 7/27/2001 11:51:38 AM EDT
[#8]
I was given a Universal carbine in 1989 from my uncle,no yellow form thank God. I also bought a Choate folder for it in 1992. I do not know how I could prove it to the BATF that it is pre-ban except for Choate no longer makes a folder for the carbine.
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Posted: 7/27/2001 11:57:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: That makes more sense. So who are the USGI manufactures? Inland, Winchester ? What about these Blue Skies imports? The imports are USGI, but find a non-import.. wroth the extra $$$. Just off the top of my head, USGI manufacturers are: Inland (Most of the original M1A1's were Inland) Winchester Saginaw Rock-Ola IBM Quality Hardware National Postal Meter |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:10:43 PM EDT
[#10]
uhhh...someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but I thought AW ban only applied to those w/ removsable mags. removable mag didn't count as an evil feature but was the deciding factor itself whether 922r or whatvewr it;s called applied. I would *think* as long as you kept the fixed mag on an sks you could add in addition to the bayonet a folder even a flash suppressor, but add a removable mag and the bayonet lug itself counts as your one allowable "feature". since the m1 doesn't have a pistol grip already could not you remove the flash suppresor and/or lug whichever it has (if it has both it's preban could you do anything to it?) and trade those features for a folder? or on an sks remove the bayonet lug add the removable mag and add a non-pistol gripped folder (no such thing that I've seen anyway) as your one feature?
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:16:42 PM EDT
[#11]
I may be wrong, but I don't think you can ad a folder to anything that is post ban, although you may be on to something with the SKS since teh mag is fixed.
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:32:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: I may be wrong, but I don't think you can ad a folder to anything that is post ban, although you may be on to something with the SKS since teh mag is fixed. No you may not add a folding stock to an SKS. SKS rifles are imported and come under another set of rules enacted by George Bush in 1989. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:40:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: Quoted: A bayonet lug is only 1 of the 5 evil features. You have to have 3 or more to make a rifle configured preban. You can only put one more evil feature on it. If you loose the bayonet lug and keep the fixed mag you can put a pistol grip and folding stock on it. A folding stock does not count on the evil features list, they are: Pistol grip Detachable mag Bayonet Lug Flash hider Grenade launcher A folder on any post-ban is a no-no, period. That too is incorrect. For the rifle to come under these rules it must [b] A)[/b] be semi-automatic and [b]B)[/b] have a detachable magazine. If your rifle does not have one of those features It can have all the EVIL features it wants (providing it is considered US manufactured - imported rifles have another set of rules that are more strict) If A&B apply Then you are limited to 1 of the following else it is an ILLEGAL semi automatic Assault Weapon Evil Features List: Bayonet Lug Grenade Launcher (37mm launchers don't count by the feds - just CA) Flash supressor or threads for a flash suppressor Folding or Telescoping stock Pistol Grip To have a folding stock you need to have a pistol grip therefore there is no way to get a folding stock on a post ban rifle. Come on guys the law is pretty black and white if you take the time to actually [b]READ[/b] it! [url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/semi.htm[/url] Its also posted up in the Law section of the Maryland AR15 Shooters Site. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:40:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: I may be wrong, but I don't think you can ad a folder to anything that is post ban, although you may be on to something with the SKS since teh mag is fixed. No you may not add a folding stock to an SKS. SKS rifles are imported and come under another set of rules enacted by George Bush in 1989. u can add a folding stock if u add enoough US made parts to qualfy as being no longer impoter witch is why sar 1,2,3's have a pistol grip and can take impotred ak mags with out violating the 89 import ban |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:43:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Originally Posted By Garand Shooter: I may be wrong, but I don't think you can ad a folder to anything that is post ban, although you may be on to something with the SKS since teh mag is fixed. No you may not add a folding stock to an SKS. SKS rifles are imported and come under another set of rules enacted by George Bush in 1989. u can add a folding stock if u add enoough US made parts to qualfy as being no longer impoter witch is why sar 1,2,3's have a pistol grip and can take impotred ak mags with out violating the 89 import ban SAR's are assembled in the US I think. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:46:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: u can add a folding stock if u add enoough US made parts to qualfy as being no longer impoter witch is why sar 1,2,3's have a pistol grip and can take impotred ak mags with out violating the 89 import ban [b]NO YOU CAN'T[/b] Jeez you guys are going to get someone in trouble. As soon as you add the 5 parts in the 'imported' Romanian AK it becomes just like a US rifle. Then it comes under the rules of the 1994 Crime Bill. Add the Folding Stock (you already have a pistol grip) and you have just created an 'Illegal Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon'. Hey if don't mind doing time with Bubba in Club Fed that is your business (not that there is anything wrong with that...). But please don't try to inform others until you have actually spent the 10 minutes to READ the darn law. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 12:58:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Forest -
Take it easy on Cyrax; I know he knows better than that. I think he just had a brain fart there. [img]www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/shaggy.gif[/img] |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#18]
The fixed mag changes it from an assault weapon to just a rifle. You can do anything you want with it w/a fixed mag (20 rounders are available). If you have detachable mags, 3 evil features are the limit (unless it was 'like that when you got it') wink wink nudge nudge.
SlackO |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 1:38:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: u can add a folding stock if u add enoough US made parts to qualfy as being no longer impoter witch is why sar 1,2,3's have a pistol grip and can take impotred ak mags with out violating the 89 import ban [b]NO YOU CAN'T[/b] Jeez you guys are going to get someone in trouble. As soon as you add the 5 parts in the 'imported' Romanian AK it becomes just like a US rifle. Then it comes under the rules of the 1994 Crime Bill. Add the Folding Stock (you already have a pistol grip) and you have just created an 'Illegal Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon'. Hey if don't mind doing time with Bubba in Club Fed that is your business (not that there is anything wrong with that...). But please don't try to inform others until you have actually spent the 10 minutes to READ the darn law. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 2:18:47 PM EDT
[#20]
I think some may be in denial or rebeling against a really stupid law? If the SKS lug is the evil feature, why did they make us remove just the bayonets, leaving the evil lug? (Chinese) And if you remove the gas piston, making it like a straight pull bolt action, is it still classified as a semiauto? Sounds dumb, just wonderin'.
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Posted: 7/27/2001 5:05:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Ok there is obviously a reading comprehension problem here.
1) Romanian AK's (the SARs) Can have a pistol grip because they have the requisite number of US made parts. No other evil features can be had without violating the 1994 Crime Bill. 2) Romanian SKS may have a Bayonet & Lug because they are listed as Curio and Relics. THEY DO NOT HAVE THE PARTS NEEDED TO BE CONSIDERED A US RIFLE. So they are covered under the earlier law dealing with imports and that limits the number of evil features even more strictly. So you cannot add the Pistol Grip & Folding stock (Ever wonder why they stopped making & selling folding stocks for SKSs??). IF (and that is a big 'IF') you could get the US Part count up high enough then 'Yes' you could add all the evil features you want. Unfortunetly I know of no US producers of SKS parts (not a big enough market with import parts so cheap). Got it straight? Good! Class Dismissed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2001 5:52:51 PM EDT
[#22]
all your Universal Carbines are belong to us: ATF. [;)]
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Posted: 7/27/2001 10:07:08 PM EDT
[#23]
You can add what ever you want to what ever rifle you want. The laws that you are talking about are clearly unconstitutional. You might want to read the 2nd Amendment. And while your at it, might as well read the whole constitution, the Federalist Papers, the Anti Federalist papers, and any and all writings my the Founders. Of course, state laws may vary, but if your in one of the northern states, the 14th amendment applies(it doesn't in the South, since they never properly ratified it), and states can't violate rkba, or any related rights.
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Posted: 7/28/2001 12:07:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Thanks for all the info. Anyone know a good place to pick up a USGI M1 Carbine?
Private_Joker |
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Posted: 7/28/2001 2:46:44 PM EDT
[#25]
BTT
Anyone? Private_Joker |
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