I'm very worried and scared............RFID

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I'm very worried and scared............RFID

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:51:26 PM EDT

All this craziness I'm hearing about RFID, retailers chipping goods and clothing, people getting chipped in the very near future. Man, I'm actually sitting here thinking that this is not going to be a future that I want to be a part of. What can we all do about it?

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:11 PM EDT

[#1]

huh?

ETA Oh THAT chipping!

I had images of people being chipped like in that movie, dontcha' know.

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:22 PM EDT

[#2]

buy more ammo

voice our opinions

ETA:

buy more ammo is usually my advice for any problem. when my wife asks me, "what should we do about such and such", I smile and say..."buy more ammo."

at least if we are heavily armed we can keep some semblance of individuality and independence. It doesn't seem like those are very popular ideas anymore.

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:42 PM EDT

[#3]

Invest in a tin foil plant.

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:52:54 PM EDT

[#4]

Refuse to have a chip installed or to have them installed on your children. That's really about it. This is assuming anything of the like happens before about 1/3 of the human population disappears, in which case you should know exactly what to do.

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:53:15 PM EDT

[#5]

refuse to be chipped as stated by Mauser 101...........I wont let them stick that thing in me.

Posted: 10/6/2005 3:59:47 PM EDT

[#6]

The dead are already being used to sell this in LA. Bodies are chipped when they are recovered to help keep them inventoried. Already there are stories like "If only they had these when they were alive.... we could give their families closure.

They're are gearing up for it.

Voluntary implantation for Children and mandatory for felons is where it will start.

"Chip your kids for their safety!"

"Felons need to be monitored"

Then the first time a crime is stopped the push will be to expand it. The felon list will expand and expand. Then after a while the ability to refuse implantation in children will be denied. And removal of the device by anyone will be illegal.

You probably won't have an RFID, unless you go to jail, but your grandchilden will know a time everyone does.

Do you part now to avoid the hype. Refuse to chip your kids.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:02:01 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
The dead are already being used to sell this in LA. Bodies are chipped when they are recovered to help keep them inventoried. Already there are stories like "If only they had these when they were alive.... we could give their families closure.

They're are gearing up for it.

Voluntary implantation for Children and mandatory for felons is where it will start.

"Chip your kids for their safety!"

"Felons need to be monitored"

Then the first time a crime is stopped the push will be to expand it. The felon list will expand and expand. Then after a while the ability to refuse implantation in children will be denied. And removal of the device by anyone will be illegal.

You probably won't have an RFID, unless you go to jail, but your grandchilden will know a time everyone does.

Do you part now to avoid the hype. Refuse to chip your kids.

Im not chipping myself or chipping my kids, simple enough.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:02:02 PM EDT

[#8]

There is nothing you can do to stop it! Get over it!

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:05:09 PM EDT

[#9]

A chip in my body!?!?!

HELL YES!!! Where do I sign up?

Balming

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:08:11 PM EDT

[#10]

Steel core. I just hope I have the money, to buy what I want before it comes.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:11:01 PM EDT

[#11]

There are instructions on the "HELP" area of ARFCOM to create yourself a Tin Hat.

Patty

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:15:05 PM EDT

[#12]

I wonder how difficult they will be to remove. My bet is that they will have a temperature sensor that activates an alarm if the chip falls below 95 degrees. They'll say it's for "getting help in case of hypothermia", but we know the real reason.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:16:48 PM EDT

[#13]

I just hope that when I get mine (I can't wait!) that it's not rectally inserted!!!

Balming

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:17:15 PM EDT

[#14]

wrap it in cheese and feed it to your dog. look for it again in 2 days. wash and repeat.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:18:03 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
I just hope that when I get mine (I can't wait!) that it's not rectally inserted!!!
Balming

Uh huh! Sure ya' do!

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:21:40 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
wrap it in cheese and feed it to your dog. look for it again in 2 days. wash and repeat.

40 posts in 3 years!!!

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:24:41 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
There are instructions on the "HELP" area of ARFCOM to create yourself a Tin Hat.

Patty

HUH ???

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:26:38 PM EDT

[#18]

A greater and more harmful problem in these times is how we are so quick to abbreviate words and even sentences. Sometimes Im left wondering what a person is talking about when they abbreviate something. Its very confusing and leaves me wondering. Makes me feel like Im not hip.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:28:11 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
A greater and more harmful problem in these times is how we are so quick to abbreviate words and even sentences. Sometimes Im left wondering what a person is talking about when they abbreviate something. Its very confusing and leaves me wondering. Makes me feel like Im not hip.

Your new chip will alleviate that problem. Get in line.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:30:12 PM EDT

[#20]

The only fucking thing they'll be giving me is a toe-tag.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:38:36 PM EDT

[#21]

Perhaps I will return the favor and implant some .308 caliber chips of my own.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:38:54 PM EDT

[#22]

ehh...

www.rf-dump.org/

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:39:00 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Invest in a tin foil plant.

This is very real do some research.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:44:12 PM EDT

[#24]

hope they never have a recall on the chip after they put it into you.

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:45:31 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
refuse to be chipped as stated by Mauser 101...........I wont let them stick that thing in me.

They will not need to. The new national I.D. that is coming, many state drivers licenses and inspection stickers(thats going nationwide soon) State I.D.s, passports, military IDs, and newly printed cash already have them. You are likely already tagged. Face it we are catalogued meat that pays taxes.

Here is the thus far definitive book.
Link SPYCHIPS

Posted: 10/6/2005 4:53:32 PM EDT

[#26]

Research is not the ARFCOM way

Tinfoil? Don't bet on it. This will be sold to everyone right under their very noses. And then it will be increased under the guise of convenience. Someday, way into the future, someone who saw Demolition Man will think using an embedded chip to pay for things is a great idea.

Here's an old, but interesting article -

http://news.com.com/2010-1069-980325.html

RFID tags: Big Brother in small packages
By Declan McCullagh

Published: January 13, 2003, 6:26 AM PST

Could we be constantly tracked through our clothes, shoes or even our cash in the future?

I'm not talking about having a microchip surgically implanted beneath your skin, which is what Applied Digital Systems of Palm Beach, Fla., would like to do. Nor am I talking about John Poindexter's creepy Total Information Awareness spy-veillance system, which I wrote about last week.

Instead, in the future, we could be tracked because we'll be wearing, eating and carrying objects that are carefully designed to do so.

The generic name for this technology is RFID, which stands for radio frequency identification. RFID tags are miniscule microchips, which already have shrunk to half the size of a grain of sand. They listen for a radio query and respond by transmitting their unique ID code. Most RFID tags have no batteries: They use the power from the initial radio signal to transmit their response.

You should become familiar with RFID technology because you'll be hearing much more about it soon. Retailers adore the concept, and CNET News.com's own Alorie Gilbert wrote last week about how Wal-Mart and the U.K.-based grocery chain Tesco are starting to install "smart shelves" with networked RFID readers. In what will become the largest test of the technology, consumer goods giant Gillette recently said it would purchase 500 million RFID tags from Alien Technology of Morgan Hill, Calif.

Alien Technology won't reveal how it charges for each tag, but industry estimates hover around 25 cents. The company does predict that in quantities of 1 billion, RFID tags will approach 10 cents each, and in lots of 10 billion, the industry's holy grail of 5 cents a tag.

It becomes unnervingly easy to imagine a scenario where everything you buy that's more expensive than a Snickers will sport RFID tags, which typically include a 64-bit unique identifier yielding about 18 thousand trillion possible values. KSW-Microtec, a German company, has invented washable RFID tags designed to be sewn into clothing. And according to EE Times, the European central bank is considering embedding RFID tags into banknotes by 2005.

That raises the disquieting possibility of being tracked though our personal possessions. Imagine: The Gap links your sweater's RFID tag with the credit card you used to buy it and recognizes you by name when you return. Grocery stores flash ads on wall-sized screens based on your spending patterns, just like in "Minority Report." Police gain a trendy method of constant, cradle-to-grave surveillance.

You can imagine nightmare legal scenarios that don't involve the cops. Future divorce cases could involve one party seeking a subpoena for RFID logs--to prove that a spouse was in a certain location at a certain time. Future burglars could canvass alleys with RFID detectors, looking for RFID tags on discarded packaging that indicates expensive electronic gear is nearby. In all of these scenarios, the ability to remain anonymous is eroded.

Don't get me wrong. RFID tags are, on the whole, a useful development and a compelling technology. They permit retailers to slim inventory levels and reduce theft, which one industry group estimates at $50 billion a year. With RFID tags providing economic efficiencies for businesses, consumers likely will end up with more choices and lower prices. Besides, wouldn't it be handy to grab a few items from store shelves and simply walk out, with the purchase automatically debited from your (hopefully secure) RFID'd credit card?

The privacy threat comes when RFID tags remain active once you leave a store. That's the scenario that should raise alarms--and currently the RFID industry seems to be giving mixed signals about whether the tags will be disabled or left enabled by default.

In an interview with News.com's Gilbert last week, Gillette Vice President Dick Cantwell said that its RFID tags would be disabled at the cash register only if the consumer chooses to "opt out" and asks for the tags to be turned off. "The protocol for the tag is that it has built in opt-out function for the retailer, manufacturer, consumer," Cantwell said.

Wal-Mart, on the other hand, says that's not the case. When asked if Wal-Mart will disable the RFID tags at checkout, company spokesman Bill Wertz told Gilbert: "My understanding is that we will."

Cantwell asserts that there's no reason to fret. "At this stage of the game, the tag is no good outside the store," he said. "At this point in time, the tag is useless beyond the store shelf. There is no value and no harm in the tag outside the distribution channel. There is no way it can be read or that (the) data would be at all meaningful to anyone." That's true as far as it goes, but it doesn't address what might happen if RFID tags and readers become widespread.

If the tags stay active after they leave the store, the biggest privacy worries depend on the range of the RFID readers. There's a big difference between tags that can be read from an inch away compared to dozens or hundreds of feet away.

For its part, Alien Technology says its RFID tags can be read up to 15 feet away. "When we talk about the range of these tags being 3 to 5 meters, that's a range in free space," said Tom Pounds, a company vice president. "That's optimally oriented in front of a reader in free space. In fact if you put a tag up against your body or on a metal Rolex watch in free space, the read range drops to zero."

But what about a more powerful RFID reader, created by criminals or police who don't mind violating FCC regulations? Eric Blossom, a veteran radio engineer, said it would not be difficult to build a beefier transmitter and a more sensitive receiver that would make the range far greater. "I don't see any problem building a sensitive receiver," Blossom said. "It's well-known technology, particularly if it's a specialty item where you're willing to spend five times as much."

Privacy worries also depend on the size of the tags. Matrics of Columbia, Md., said it has claimed the record for the smallest RFID tag, a flat square measuring 550 microns a side with an antenna that varies between half an inch long to four inches by four inches, depending on the application. Without an antenna, the RFID tag is about the size of a flake of pepper.

Matrics CEO Piyush Sodha said the RFID industry is still in a state of experimentation. "All of the customers are participating in a phase of extensive field trials," Sodha said. "Then adoption and use in true business practices will happen...Those pilots are only going to start early this year."

To the credit of the people in the nascent RFID industry, these trials are allowing them to think through the privacy concerns. An MIT-affiliated standards group called the Auto-ID Center said in an e-mailed statement to News.com that they have "designed a kill feature to be built into every (RFID) tag. If consumers are concerned, the tags can be easily destroyed with an inexpensive reader. How this will be executed i.e. in the home or at point of sale is still being defined, and will be tested in the third phase of the field test."

If you care about privacy, now's your chance to let the industry know how you feel. (And, no, I'm not calling for new laws or regulations.) Tell them that RFID tags are perfectly acceptable inside stores to track pallets and crates, but that if retailers wish to use them on consumer goods, they should follow four voluntary guidelines.

First, consumers should be notified--a notice on a checkout receipt would work--when RFID tags are present in what they're buying. Second, RFID tags should be disabled by default at the checkout counter. Third, RFID tags should be placed on the product's packaging instead of on the product when possible. Fourth, RFID tags should be readily visible and easily removable.

Given RFID's potential for tracking your every move, is that too much to ask?

Biography
Declan McCullagh is CNET News.com's Washington, D.C., correspondent. He chronicles the busy intersection between technology and politics. Before that, he worked for several years as Washington bureau chief for Wired News. He has also worked as a reporter for The Netly News, Time magazine and HotWired.

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:02:17 PM EDT

[#27]

Who gives a shit? Change what's on the tag to your liking. Also, they aren't that hard to find, it's about 1.5" square and flat, not some tiny microchip.

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:06:18 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Who gives a shit? Change what's on the tag to your liking. Also, they aren't that hard to find, it's about 1.5" square and flat, not some tiny microchip.

"The computer will never catch on. It is the size of a bedroom and far too large for American homes."

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:08:38 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Who gives a shit? Change what's on the tag to your liking. Also, they aren't that hard to find, it's about 1.5" square and flat, not some tiny microchip.

"The computer will never catch on. It is the size of a bedroom and far too large for American homes."

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:12:34 PM EDT

[#30]

I was thinking about this when I saw the IBM business add. When the chips on the packages showed they were lost, 15 feet my ASS

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:13:17 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I just hope that when I get mine (I can't wait!) that it's not rectally inserted!!!

Balming

The standard location is the back of your right arm, halfway between shoulder and elbow

Posted: 10/6/2005 5:45:33 PM EDT

[#32]

Chipped consumer goods are already a reality. We're all familiar with the visible and easily removed anti-theft chips. Obviously these aren't a threat. I assume the OP, however, is talking about the nano-sized variety that are used for tracking purposes. These little beasts are, plain and simply, Evil. With a capital "E." Short of a successful boycott or congressional legislation, both of which are equally unlikely to occur, expect their use to continue and become far more widespread in the days ahead.

As for chipping consumers themselves, obviously The Powers That Be would prefer this be undertaken voluntarily. The trick, then, is to market them as offering genuine benefits to the consumer/citizen. Said benefits, however, are going to have to be more than discounts on groceries or less time waiting in line at airport security.

Make the claim that the chips produce, say, the ability to maintain 3-day erections, however, and the picture changes entirely.

The point being, good marketing is the only thing standing in the way of making the leap from products to humans.

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:30:25 PM EDT

[#33]

Enough people already think that this is a good enough idea that several clinics in Houston will implant a chip in children. Some dumb fuck sheeple mom called our hospital last year and wanted to know if we provided this service. I could not believe someone was seriously asking about this so I did a search and found that there are a couple of corporations making the chips and one had a website listing the clinics where the chips could be implanted. Several of the clinics were in Houston.

This shit is real. As sure as there will always be taxes, our government will find a way to make this practice mainstream. Probably something like "For safety purposes you can't enroll your child in school without a chip." They will think of something.

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:41:06 PM EDT

[#34]

What do I do when they start putting RFIDs in the tinfoil?

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:41:58 PM EDT

[#35]

Within two generations it will be commonplace.Like has been stated,you start with felons and children-"If your child is lost or kidnapped,we can find them in minutes".Done deal.

There are always ways around things like this-remember how Wesley Snipes escaped in "Demolition Man"?Retina scan-woo hoo!

I have seen pics of the newer ones that are about the size of a grain of rice.

Been to the dentist lately?

And maybe a tiny drop of some super poison inside-Hmmmmmm,Balma is thinking bad thoughts today-Bye bye!

1984 is upon us.

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:49:13 PM EDT

[#36]

Soylent Green-- - - - - - - -

It's PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:50:38 PM EDT

[#37]

Hey, If I decide to get chipped and I installed this I wonder if it would screw the "overlookers" up?

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:50:40 PM EDT

[#38]

[borg]You will be assimilated, resistance is futile[/borg]

Posted: 10/6/2005 6:56:24 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Who gives a shit? Change what's on the tag to your liking. Also, they aren't that hard to find, it's about 1.5" square and flat, not some tiny microchip.

I volunteered at a Humane Society in Leon County, Florida, for some extra credit in a class. The RFID chips they put in the new strays they receive are TINY, small enough to be injected hypodermically. In fact, whenever a stray was found by them, first thing they would do is pass a scanner over their bodies to see if an RFID was already implanted, so as to track down their owners. I wonder how long it will be before schoolchildren will be given vaccines with RFID stowaways.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I'm very worried and scared............RFID

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