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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:03:15 PM EDT
 no wonder OPD shot him... |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:04:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Holy crap, wtf is the story?!?!? |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:05:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Tag for more info
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:07:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I thought he was shooting ini the air.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:08:13 PM EDT
[#4]
+1 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:08:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Google News "UCF football game shooting" or else use ARFCOM search to find the thread.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:08:47 PM EDT
[#6]
story 1
story 2-better: thats two of the articles. ya there were lots of reports as to what he was doing, but that is pretty explainatory right there. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:08:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Wow.
Not good. Not good at all. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:10:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Tagged. I know the story that was given by the news, does this have any impact on the original story?
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:14:22 PM EDT
[#9]
supposedly he was firing warning shots in the air. AND now, he was pointing a gun at a students head.
Imagine if someone had pushed the officer or startled him, and he pulled the trigger. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:14:55 PM EDT
[#10]
wow
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:17:26 PM EDT
[#11]
He probably thought he was the only one in the parking lot professional enough ...
What a fucked-up story, from every conceivable angle. Man. 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:18:16 PM EDT
[#12]
few more pics. not mine...
  in the first pic, the guy on the ground in the green shirt is the UC |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:21:37 PM EDT
[#13]
No habla second linky 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:22:17 PM EDT
[#14]
The only way I can begin to rationalize this one is if it got really, really bad with multiple guys on him possibly trying to disarm him. Then firing a shot off to move people out may be OK since that is a valid use of force situation anyway but still, the whole gun to the head thing...
As a plain clothes officer I train often with my gun in one hand and my badge in the other. I have actually trained at times with my belt clip over my index and middle finger on my weak hand which keeps the badge up with the weapon. You have to remember that you don't know all the PO PO and they all don't know you. You have to cover your threats but be aware that you are gonna have to balance that with appearing non hostile and IDing yourself with responding units. Sad and avoidable. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:27:06 PM EDT
[#15]
ya wtf was up with that...fixed |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:33:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Whats the story behind the pictures. The pictures don't explain anything. What was happening at the time that footage was being shot. What is the reason the UC has to hold the gun to that persons head? Sounds like the UC made some bad decisions which in the end cost him his life. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:38:44 PM EDT
[#17]
I was under the impression that a Law Enforcement officer would never discharge his weapon "into the air" just to scatter a crowd or to get everyone's attention. "If you discharge your firearm, you better be killing something" IE - they don't shoot to injure, they shoot to kill, and no officer should draw his gun unless he's ready to use deadly force. - Period. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:43:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Our policy allows for the firing of warning shots if deadly force is justified or if the firing of the shots can immediately avoid deadly force. Certainly a second to last option if an option at all. I'd imagine if I had to do it it would be into the ground if possible... We do not shoot to kill. We shoot to stop. Finally, as far as drawing the gun you are badly mistaken. If I'd shot someone every time I drew my weapon... Geeze! Study up a bit before you make such assertations. - Period. 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:46:34 PM EDT
[#19]
the story hasnt made the paper yet, these pics are from someone's camera that sent them to our school paper. Basically I think he had the gun to the kids head, then someone started a fight, the third pic is everyone watching the fight. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:48:55 PM EDT
[#20]
You obviously dont know what you are talking about |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:49:35 PM EDT
[#21]
I am going to reserve judgement until the FDLE report is issued. A lot of the eyewitness accounts are from people that were involved in accosting this officer as he was attempting to make an arrest for under-aged drinking.
What I'd like to know is why the OPD officer saw it necessary to shoot this guy in the back. With his back turned to the officer, the officer was not in any danger. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 7:51:20 PM EDT
[#22]
finally some common sense. Lets get some hard facts here before judging a man than cannot defend himself. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:07:14 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:20:36 PM EDT
[#24]
  That's rich!Oh, wait. You're serious when you suggest that an officer shouldn't shoot an unidentified goofball in plainclothes firing a gun in the air in a crowded place and pointing it at non - LEOs. Good call. I guess you're OK with paying 4 mills a year for a group of armed men devoted to protecting. . . themselves. What the shooting suggests most strongly is that the decedent was not conducting himself in a way that suggested to nearby cops he was an LEO. Link to original thread. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:31:33 PM EDT
[#25]
In the officers eyes he thought that it was a random shooter and to save the lives of people around him he shot him in the back before he could shoot anyone. It's sorta like shooting a guy with a gun to someones head, he didn't point the gun at you but you thought he was going to kill the hostage so you shoot to save that person life. Look at the officers point of view. We have time to sit back and look at the situation, but the officer only had seconds to react to a person shooting in the parking lot. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:34:46 PM EDT
[#26]
So what if this situation was involving a CWP holder? A guy was defending himself aginst a bunch of drunk college kids throwing beer bottles at him and a cop just comes up and shoots you because you have a gun.
And yes I know it is illegal to have a gun at a sporting event. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:42:05 PM EDT
[#27]
The short answer, you can use force to protect yourself or OTHERS. So if you happen across a shooter firing rounds in the food court of the mall, you would be justified in shooting him from whatever perspective you were at to make him stop shooting at other people. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:54:54 PM EDT
[#28]
A plainclothes cop was shot by uniformed cop while waving and firing a gun during a confrontation secondary to investigating underage drinking at a stadium during a college ball game. Therefore, we must consider limiting or ending tailgating and alcohol sales at the stadium during college games. Oooooooooooookay.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:57:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Perhaps if they didn't make it such a big deal to drink underage, none of this would have happened.
Oh...yeah...the War on Some Drugs. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 8:59:13 PM EDT
[#30]
it really isnt a big deal.. Cops mostly give out NTA's to offenders, which lead to small fines. Kids under 18 have to be arrested. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:00:16 PM EDT
[#31]
So you think this had nothing to do with alcohol? oooooookay |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:03:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Alcohol has something to do with it, but it's like charging Ford Motor Company as an accessory to drunk driving, when someone gets arrested out of a 1988 Ford Escort. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:04:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Walk me through it. Show how the cop was killed due to alcohol - and most especially how a ban on alcohol sales and tailgating would reduce the need to investigate underage drinking - the illegality of which won't be increased by such a ban. Come on. It should be easy. 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:10:29 PM EDT
[#34]
that is the worst analogy I have ever heard. Does Ford's products alter a persons behavior? |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:11:54 PM EDT
[#35]
OK, which of the gunmen was drunk?
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:12:59 PM EDT
[#36]
Did I argue with you about how it would affect things? No I didnt.. What I am saying was thinking this didnt have anything to do with achohol is wrong. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#37]
and you, you jump to soo many conclusions I have to wonder do you take classes on this? You must be a lawyer |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:14:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Using rational thought, reasoning and logic will not stop the "ban it all to save lives" mentality.
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:25:39 PM EDT
[#39]
Newsflash: conclusions are where facts lead. This is not a complicated cause-and-effect question, unless one is somehow compelled to play the common Arfcom "hold your peace until you know which cop to blow" game. The cop was killed because he was seen by another cop behaving in an objectively dangerous and life-threatening way with a firearm. Because he was not objectively recognizable as an LEO, he got the same consideration an ordinary taxpayer would get under the circumstances, and was shot dead. Had he been recognizable as an LEO, he would almost certainly be alive. Whoever decided to enforce the minimum drinking age by deployment of UC officers at the game has blood on his hands. On reflection, the only reason I can see for using UC rather than uniformed officers for such duty is that the approach of a uniformed cop would cause underaged drinkers to dump their booze, sometimes dispelling PC altogether, and always leaving weaker and perhaps unprosecutable cases. While this would enforce the law, it would not boost anybody's numbers. This suggests that a cop died over stats. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:33:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Lets just cut the crap and call this what it is.
A well meaning guy made a very bad mistake under pressure. Turned out ugly for everyone involved. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:40:54 PM EDT
[#41]
I don't think the uniformed cop made a mistake given the circumstances. I feel sorry for the anguish that cop is going to feel for the rest of his life when all he was trying to do was do his duty. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 9:49:26 PM EDT
[#42]
I go to UCF, was at the game too. It wasnt found out he died until later when the game was over. They have him on the front page of the school paper, i'll pick one up tommorrow scan it and post it on here. I think OPD did the right thing
  as much as it sucks to say that, the area it took place at is a complete shit-hole and if it was a bad guy that got killed it wouldnt be any suprise; again considering the area. He made a bad call dischargin his weapon, and I didnt see the first pic in this thread where he had his gun to the back of the dudes head. WTF? I will be waiting to hear about that.I cant see how he could justify discharging his gun and (what it looks like) taking a hostage(im guessing for the others to back off...?) There were TONS of OPD there. Fuck, they had paramedics and the OPD Bombsquad out there showing off their vehicles and all! Bad call, i just hope OPD can learn from this. Maybe more uniforms at the game next time. Lots of frat guys got pretty crazy just in the stands, let alone pre-game. Bottom line is they didnt have enough manpower. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 10:18:43 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm going to go out on limb here and with the very limited amount of info from the articles take a wild stab as to what happened.
University Officer is in plain clothes doing alcohol enforcement. For some reason he is alone and does not have a radio. Attempts to bust some one and is out numbered and the crowd begins to turn on him. Maybe he holds one of them at gunpoint to the head to try to back off the others ( way bad idea but .. ) Now he's alone and the crowd is not buying his "I'll shoot this guy bluff" so in a desperate attempt to get some back up he fires shots into the air in hopes it will attract other officers to back him up ( bad idea again) Either the shots in the air worked or some one called about the fight but now you have a city unit show up that may only have the call as shots fired. He gets on the scene sees the ULEO and has no idea who he is and uses deadly force to stop what he saw, man with a gun threatening bodily harm to another. Something any of us would have done. Now my attempt at Monday morning QB: When we do UC alcohol enforcement at the games, NO GOES ALONE. Also if the crowd turns on you and there is no close back up RUN. It's not cowardice it's common sense. When back up arrives you can always go back into the area and find the people. No UAC/open container cite is worth anyone getting hurt officer or suspect . Oh well take that for what it's worth. We may all find out that this went down a totally different way. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 10:24:32 PM EDT
[#44]
I used to work Auburn football games when I worked for the SO there. The students made drinking a big deal. Tons of fights, vandalism and other pretty major problems on a regular basis. The administration had to tighten it up. Ever try fighting two drunk frat boys in steep stadium seating? I have. It ain't fun. I agree with whoever said that the use of UC to make cases as opposed to uniforms to prevent and deterr the problems was a poor choice. Even if you want to use UCs have them call in a uniform before approaching drunk college age idiots. Tragic. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 10:37:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Do guns turn me into a serial killer? 
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Posted: 9/28/2005 10:44:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Yes a Ford automobile allows a person to go much faster then they could on foot, the may feel more protected in a car than they would while on foot, in traffic. If they go careening off road they will do much more damage in an autombile than on foot. It's like they did here, there were several drunk driving crashes along a section of road. They lowered the speed limit 10 mph, and put up signs asking that people "share the road". Alcohol played a part. But blaming alcohol is like saying lower speed limits will cut the number of drunk driving crashes. |
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Posted: 9/28/2005 10:53:04 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 9/29/2005 12:52:58 AM EDT
[#48]
Tag for the video.
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:15:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Escorts don't. Mustangs, on the other hand... 
I'm pretty sure he was referring to the plainclothes UCF officer who was shot, not the uniformed OPD officer. |
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Posted: 9/29/2005 5:22:45 AM EDT
[#50]
Wow some really bad errors in judgement all around.
 As for tailgating, we get sloppy drunk at Tech games but I have yet to hear of any problems. |
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