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Posted: 7/23/2001 12:30:33 PM EDT
[#1]
i agree 100%
What we need is a hunting season on lawyers. The bastards are ruining this country. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 12:35:25 PM EDT
[#2]
GoatBoy for NYC Mayor!!!!!
I (and I'm sure many other LEO's) agree with what you're saying...[beer] |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 12:36:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Sorry, GoatBoy, but I disagree with your methods if not your intent.
Our problem isn't that our punishments aren't tough enough, it's that they come too late to make a difference. If you have a puppy that messes on the floor, or eats a shoe, or tears up the carpet, do you speak to it sternly and lock it in the bathroom over and over until it reaches adulthood? Then when it does it one more time, kill it? No, you punish it effectively when it is a puppy so that it knows what it did, that it was wrong, and that doing it again will result in further unpleasant and possibly painful punishment. Pain is a sense given to us by nature to tell us that we've just screwed up. People who commit serious crimes don't just wake up one day and decide to be armed robbers, or murderers, or whatever. Almost without exception they have LONG histories of crime starting from childhood. You want to stop serious crime? Figure out how to reach them as children. Punish juvenile crime consistently and effectively, and I guarantee you that the level of serious crime in this country will fall. Caning seem to me to be a pretty damned good idea. But it is SO un-PC. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 12:58:08 PM EDT
[#4]
It will never happen.
Too many lawyers and demojackasses. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 1:26:38 PM EDT
[#5]
I have to agree with Kbaker .
Punishment should be severe but it should be quick . Why is it that someone convicted of murder and sentenced to death doesn't receive his punishment till after sitting on " death row " for ten years or more ? Reinstate Public Hangings on Mainstreet for the whole town to see and make it within one year of the crime and then people will take notice . Severe ? yes . but what is the crime if not severe ? |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 2:11:52 PM EDT
[#6]
You don't mean to sound cold or ruthless? How would you word it if you did? [:d]
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Posted: 7/23/2001 2:29:56 PM EDT
[#7]
The so called "civilized" society we live in does not allow for eye for eye/tooth for tooth type of justice...add a degree of corruption, and you have a nice "cushy" mix of freedom for the criminal element....what really sucks, is the amount of "pitty"...."sorry"...."victim of a bad society"...."rehabilitation"....type of mindset that exists out there, that only helps to fuel the criminal mind further.....certain politicians will jump this bandwagon, to boost thier own personal goal (as THEY seeit) and further support the "man doin` the time" and the attitude of the inmate becomes MORE criminal, making the false idea of rehab nothing more than another way to waste money on what should be dealt with in a more stringent manner. There is also a Prisoners Legal Service, at least in n.y., and they are there to make sure the inmate is treated with RESPECT......NOW....how is the law enforcement community as a whole supposed to overcome these obstacles, when too many times, the sentence does not fit the crime to begin with, and as soon as the inmate hits the street, he`s going right back to his way, cause that`s the life he knows!....this is only PART of the story, but a good insight on some of what america is today.....freedom?.....YOU BETCHA`......[shotgun]
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Posted: 7/23/2001 2:39:34 PM EDT
[#8]
I've gotta go with KBaker on this one. I really don't think thugs/rapists/molester are thinking about punishment when they commit their crimes. Even if the punishment was death by hot poker in the eye done at high noon in town square, these brainiacs assume they are not gonna get caught, or don't really care. Some don't really have all that much to live for, so figure what the heck. The only benifit to severe punishment is that the criminals that get caught won't be around to violate somebody else.
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Posted: 7/23/2001 3:10:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I really don't think thugs/rapists/molester are thinking about punishment when they commit their crimes. Exactly. They DO fear being *caught*, though, especially by ARMED CITIZENS. They fear this far more than the police. And if they know that it's illegal for citizens to be armed (or worse, to defend themselves at all, ala England), they're emboldened to the point of ruthless violence. The first problem is that we've delegated the responsibility for our safety to the government (in the form of the police, primarily). I know that many of you have and use your CCW, but I'm talking about society as a whole. Not taking the responsibility for our own defense is our biggest failing regarding crime. Then, there are all the people in prison on manditory sentences for mere possession of drugs, guns, or other non-violent charges. These people clog the jails until the violent criminals are given early release. Another issue is that, despite what many seem to believe, our prison system is NOT designed to reform anyone's behavior. That's something that could be examined. Finally, I couldn't agree more in regards to the weak juvi system we have, which probably causes more harm than good. -Troy |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 3:18:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Sorry, GoatBoy, but I disagree with your methods if not your intent. Our problem isn't that our punishments aren't tough enough, it's that they come too late to make a difference. If you have a puppy that messes on the floor, or eats a shoe, or tears up the carpet, do you speak to it sternly and lock it in the bathroom over and over until it reaches adulthood? Then when it does it one more time, kill it? No, you punish it effectively when it is a puppy so that it knows what it did, that it was wrong, and that doing it again will result in further unpleasant and possibly painful punishment. I agree with this to some degree. If the child is not properly raised then it will think the world is theirs. Discipline is definitely in order, but by the time the kid is 12+ he knows what is right or wrong, and if that kid pulls a gun on another kid and blows his brains all over the cafeteria floor, well then it's time to pay for it. Think of how quickly the lesson would be learned as a kid by ONE school showing of public executions or when the news reports fly about so and so who shot some guy who had an affair with his wife and was put to death 24 hours after being caught. I think the puppy at that point would see that life is harsh and if his parents won't teach him right from wrong, then the world will. People who commit serious crimes don't just wake up one day and decide to be armed robbers, or murderers, or whatever. Almost without exception they have LONG histories of crime starting from childhood. You want to stop serious crime? Figure out how to reach them as children. Punish juvenile crime consistently and effectively, and I guarantee you that the level of serious crime in this country will fall. Caning seem to me to be a pretty damned good idea. But it is SO un-PC. Again agree with this to some degree. BUT these criminals also learn from an early age that crime pays. So you go to jail for a year or two, big deal! You network in there, make some contacts, work out, free meals, free clothing, free room and board, come out and bam! Ready to go once more... The only thing is, my way you come out with one less hand... or foot if they stole a car... (Think how quick you'd learn not to steal with one less hand and foot...) It's not a perfect world where we can catch and punish kids for crimes. That's not societies job anyhow, its up to parents to raise their kids. Perhaps with public CANING or some sort of deterrent for youth criminals that is well known, then maybe we'd start getting into their heads, but if they see that a life of crime does NOT pay, then they'll think even harder. -- GB |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 3:40:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Goatboy, I didn't know you had it in you! I like your attitude. If people really had to pay for their crimes society would be much better. Like these women who kill their kids or men who molest children, these people deserve a $1.00 bullet behind the courthouse. There isn't any help for these soul-less POSs and as far as the liberal idea of helping them young well you would have to take the kids away at 1 yr. old for that to work. An idea I had would be to form a penal colony on an island like the French did except let the convicts run it themselves and kill anyone who tried to escape. This would be a place for those that did not get shot behind the courthouse. And for drugs, some of these people are the worst, when did we start feeling sorry for drug dealers? Kill em all and let God sort them out! I wish you hadn't got me going like that but I feel better now.
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Posted: 7/23/2001 4:18:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Boy GoatBoy who put a burr under your saddle?
Not that I have a problem with it, I agree with you, I'm just not used to seeing you express yourself like you have of late. Let it out, don't hold it in. I enjoy reading people letting off steam, that way when I feel the need to I don't mind venting. People should be held accountable for their actions. PERIOD! |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 4:20:32 PM EDT
[#13]
A $1.00 bullet???? Why shoot 'em with a .50? Last time I checked you could get a milsurp .223 for $0.10 in bulk! Jeez, talk about overkill! [B)]
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Posted: 7/23/2001 4:23:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Allows for bad marksmanship!
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Posted: 7/23/2001 4:23:25 PM EDT
[#15]
...tonight, on pay-perview, Junkyard SaltGun Justice Wars !!!
seriously, i think both sides of the issue come into play. early in life, it is the responsibility of the parent/guardian to ensure not only the safety and well being of the child, but the guiding of the child's growth into an adult. but parents are too (insert excuse here) to properly carry out their duties. and very often, the govt. steps in to take over their responsibilities in various forms. the politicos have it in their best interests to continue a system which rewards criminals with victim status. they also have a place for all of us...its called DEPENDENCE. the more responsibility the govt. can take from us, the bigger and more necessary the govt. becomes for us. sure, an eye for an eye will have a certain shock value, but if people are starving, the law of the land isn't worth squat... ...i am in no way supporting criminal act(s) and i agree that everyone as an adult is responsible for their own actions, but i think a great way to reduce crime is to 1) reduce govt. (50% of crime right there!) 2) increase the proper raising of the young'uns |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 4:42:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: It will never happen. Too many lawyers and demojackasses. Hey! I resemble that comment! Goatboy, Don't believe the hype. Year to year, we enjoy about a 96-98% convtiction rate in this country. That's pretty damn good. The OJ's of the world are anomolies. People go to jail every day for stupid shit, even with representation. Every once in a while, there's a travesty, but it's not the norm. When it comes to advantages in the legal system, it's all on the prosectutors' side of the isle, especially in federal court. Due process and all of the protections found in the Constitution, like the 4th, are there to protect us as a whole against the type of "governing" that goes on in other countries where abuse and subjective law enforcement [i]are[/i] the norm. The problem, as I see it, is not enough prevention and individual self reliance. Look at the states that enact CCW laws, their crime rates plumet. Remember the Tallahassee rape case years ago? What about the town in Georgia that required gun ownership by households and had something like an 85% drop in burglaries. It all points to a real correlation between armed citizens and reduced crime. My .02 cents. PS: The China example is bad. Would you trade "security" for freedom? Besides, who has time to commit a crime when you're getting raped by your own government. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:00:45 PM EDT
[#17]
I think the Chinese have a pretty cool way of cunducting business - after you're executed they send a bill for the ammo and the burial cost to your next of kin.
I also like the Japanese prisons where the prisoners are not allowed to talk to anyone - not guards, not other inmates. You are basically never allowed to socialize during your prison stay. But I also think they said it pretty good when they said "Don't tell me the death penalty will work to deterr drug cartels, they live under a constant death threat from their own organizations, and their executions are a quit a bit nastier than ours." |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:00:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Steve I don't mind lawyers (that much!), you excluded of course, [=)] but I do think the system isn't where it should be. The ability for criminals to postpone and delay trials is ridiculous. If it's a crime where there is a serious doubt at stake fine, no need to put an innocent man to death, but the process now where if you have the money you can get off is pure garbage.
The rules regarding the gathering of evidence need to be adjusted as well. Pure evidence no matter how it's gathered should be admissible in a court case, while suspect information gathered from people should be weighed considerably less. As for China, we can always take the good things they do and adopt them into our own systems... kind of like shopping the world for what works. ]=) -- GB Oh and who needs even a $.10 bullet when a baseball bat or large rock works just as well... not to mention a simple slit of the throat or good old fashion rope... cheap, reusable, and just as effective. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:02:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Goatboy,
Your feeling, while normal, won't really deter crime. As someone said before (quite well I might add) punishment comes too late to change someones actions. I'll bet 99.9% of criminals didn't think they'd get caught. So what do they care what the punishment is? I share your frustration, but it's not the total answer. Did you know in midevil times there would be public hangings and burning of criminals, and cutpurses would decend on the crowds to pick pockets from the distracted audience.. Sorry, Francis |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:04:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Goatboy for mayor hell, Goatboy for President!!!!!
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:10:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Sure it may not have a large immediate impact, but it would sure as hell would rock common criminals. Think of all the young kids who would grow up fearing the punishments for crimes. With less crimes, more people would live without fear and I think would also come forth to turn people in or to add evidence without fear for their lives.
There are those criminals (drug dealers come to mind) who would still risk their lives for the chance at a great life, but if that was our major focus imagine the resources we could throw at it! There is no one answer to this problem, but you have to start somewhere and cleaning out our prisons and using the space and food for the homeless and the needy is a much better beginning than banning guns. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:25:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Heres another one for you.
Capitol Punishment should be mandatory in every State Period..... [sniper] |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:29:02 PM EDT
[#23]
This reminds me of the Rodney King deal, when I was a kid in the 60s if you ran from the law in the manner he did you knew you would get an ass kicking. Now its all about excuses well fu@k excuses if you do the crime you should pay in relationship to the level of your crime .
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Posted: 7/23/2001 5:53:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Most of the people that believe in the criminal's rights have not had a family member murdered by one. Two years ago my father in law was killed by his next door neighbor who was stealing his money from checks that he had stolen. This fine upstanding member of society was a convicted felon, 9 to be exact. Can anyone tell me why this p.o.s. was still on the street? He and his wife had planned the murder shortly after they began writing the checks. He told his wife not to worry because my father in law would not live to file charges. One bright and cold day in December the murderer asked my father in law, an avid shooter, to go shooting with him. Keep in mind my father in law had no reason to fear this man. As a matter of fact my father in law had the American Legion pay for Thanksgiving dinner for the killer and his family as they did not have the money for one. Once alone, the killer shot my father in law point blank range in the face and stood over him unil he stopped moving. He then buried him in an eighteen inch deep grave.
It would be four months before the body was found and my then pregnent wife could saay goodbye to her father forever. The state of Indiana found the killer guilty and gave him 65 years for pre-meditated murder. So don't tell me about crime and punishment untill you walk in my shoes a bit. I'm sorry this went a bit long, but as a former LEO myself I say it's time we worry about the victims and to Hell with the criminals. |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 6:06:12 PM EDT
[#25]
GB I agree 100%. I know if an asshole stole something and got his grubby paw chopped off then he wouldn't steal anymore shit.
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Posted: 7/23/2001 6:24:51 PM EDT
[#26]
[b]
Quoted: Heres another one for you. Capitol Punishment should be mandatory in every State Period..... [sniper] You'd like the same Government that we don't trust to do the right thing concerning gun legislation, teach our kids or just do the correct thing period....The same Government that is populated by people like Fineswine, Schumer, Clinton, Condit and Kennedy et. al..ad naseum..... You'd like this same Government to cast judgement for life and death? If we as individuals can't or shouldn't decide who should live and die then why should we give that same power to a Government we don't trust to lesser tasks? |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 6:25:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Can anyone tell me why this p.o.s. was still on the street? Largely due to the War On (Some) Drugs, and the manditory sentences associated with it. Some guy caught with a few onces of pot was in this POS's cell on a manditory charge, so they had to let this guy out. -Troy |
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Posted: 7/23/2001 8:57:29 PM EDT
[#28]
the only punishment that works the first time is exicution and that isnt popular these days
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