Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.  

Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves

Quoted: Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.   Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves users.otenet.gr/~alvemm/images/su-37d.jpg

You cannot kill what you cannot see with radar.  This is a showpiece plane simply for the fact it will never get close to an F22.  Interested to see what it would do Vs. Eurofighter or Viggen though

Stunt planes.  Cool for plowing grass at the Paris Air Show, but not even a close match in real combat.  You have to cut the nuts off the F-15C just to give the SU-37 a fighting chance, and the F-15 is over 30 years old.

It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.

when 10 f-15 pilots get there ass kicked by a single 22 so bad that they say it is unfair, and your saying they aren't worried

6 pages

Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22.

In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.  


That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit.


Even more interesting the SU-47

So how many of them do the Chinese have?  And how competent are their pilots?  If the Indians have respectable pilots ..............



-K

Quoted: So how many of them do the Chinese have?  And how competent are their pilots?  If the Indians have respectable pilots .............. -K

Check Janes.  IM Vito113 he is good with this stuff.

Quoted: So how many of them do the Chinese have?  And how competent are their pilots?  If the Indians have respectable pilots .............. -K

Remember Wang Wei??? lol

Quoted: Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22. In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.   That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit. www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg Even more interesting the SU-47 es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg

SU47?"??

There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC

Russians sure copy well (When the copy the *right* plane... When they don't, you get the SU-25 (which was the 'YA-9', contract competitor to the A-10))....



P.S. It's not the russian PLANES to worry about, it's their !#%!#%!% MISSILES....

Quoted: Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22. In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.   That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit. www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg Even more interesting the SU-47 es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg

The US F-15C pilots were handcuffed by the rules of that Indian exercise.   Also this exercise JUST happened to coincide right about the time the F-22 program was before Congress on whether there should be more cuts or cancellation.   In the press releases, the USAF went on how our pilots are now overmatched but FAILED to mention the rules of the exercise heavily favored the Indians.

tag

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22. In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.   That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit. www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg Even more interesting the SU-47 es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg SU47?"?? There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC Russians sure copy well (When the copy the *right* plane... When they don't, you get the SU-25 (which was the 'YA-9', contract competitor to the A-10)).... P.S. It's not the russian PLANES to worry about, it's their !#%!#%!% MISSILES....

X-29

Quoted: There was a US X-plane that looked just like that thing... X-31, IIRC.

The X-29, built in the 1980's on the airframe of an old F-5 Freedom Fighter using then new composite and microprocessor technology.

Composites gave the forward swept wings strength. On board computation capability allowed for fine control of an otherwise unstable aerodynamic design.

The plane performed beyond expectations on it's first test flight and IIRC the chief test pilot for the project, Chuck Sewell, got himself taken off the project when he went beyond the flight profile and rocked the wings in victory.

ETA: Who remembers the Northrop F-20 Tigershark?

Quoted: Quoted: Was watching the military channel and they had a short piece about the Russian SU-37 fighter.   Those Russians aren't too worried about stealth but boy they can build a plane that moves users.otenet.gr/~alvemm/images/su-37d.jpg You cannot kill what you cannot see with radar.  This is a showpiece plane simply for the fact it will never get close to an F22.  Interested to see what it would do Vs. Eurofighter or Viggen though

All the stealth in the world on the Raptor doesnt stop IRSTS systems. I dont know the effective range of these systems, but if its very far then stealth becomes a nifty catch phrase.

As for not hitting what you cant see....Welcome in the Gardenia pod. I dont know the extent of the pod, and obviously the Chinese arent telling us. But a Chinese flanker with IRSTS and Gardenia pod equipped could be a very dangerous adversary for a Raptor to engage.

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the Raptor. But the Chinese cant be ruled out as a threat ust because we have Raptors. Especially since we dont know (Or "we" (The people) havent been told) the capabilities of the Chinese equipment. The Gardenia pod is sold to them is probably not Russias most advanced electronics suite, but that doesnt mean its ineffective and more to the point it doesnt mean China has modified it for its own uses and requirements.
If China has modified or improved the Gardenia pod, pair that with IRSTS as well as targetting information uplinked from other systems to the Flanker it gives the Flanker a definate helping hand in engaging American assets.

But, until we know the full capabilities of Chinas equipment its all speculation.

Let's not be so cocksure and bada** about ourselves.  Remember when two Eagles jumped a RAF trainer and the trainer trounced them.

Quoted: Let's not be so cocksure and bada** about ourselves.  Remember when two Eagles jumped a RAF trainer and the trainer trounced them.

Haha! i never heard that story!

Soooo....Tell me a story......

Those russkie planes sure look a lot like our old designs...........

Quoted: Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22. In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.   That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit. www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg Even more interesting the SU-47 es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg

You are very badly misinformed, they can track and shoot us down. They cant track stealth by radar but they can with IR.  The little bubble thing on the nose of the SU in front of the cockpit is the IRST.  They can track objects as far as 90 miles away and guide missiles to intercept.   Euro allies have been tracking our stealth aircraft for a long time even thought its not widely known.  Vito will atest to this fact.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's a pretty plane and a dancer, but not much for really having a bite, compared to the F-15 or F/A-22. In capable hands a Sukhoi 30(no thrust vectoring) is more than a match for an F-15 in a dogfight as evidenced by Indian pilots.  So the SU-37 in well trained hands is more than sufficient.   That pic above is aspparently 27s or 30s, this is the 37.  Notice the cunards towards the cockpit. www.kitsune.addr.com/Robotech/Robotech-Vehicles/EBSIS_Su-37.jpg Even more interesting the SU-47 es.geocities.com/breakmeya/images/su47bottom.jpg www.airsceneuk.org.uk/airshow01/zhukovsky/Berkuttop.jpg You are very badly misinformed, they can track and shoot us down. They cant track stealth by radar but they can with IR.  The little bubble thing on the nose of the SU in front of the cockpit is the IRST.  They can track objects as far as 90 miles away and guide missiles to intercept.   Euro allies have been tracking our stealth aircraft for a long time even thought its not widely known.  Vito will atest to this fact.

Beat you to it.
See my post above about the IRSTS.
What i didnt know was the range. Does the 90 miles include the use of an optical zoom or is that the base unit?

The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles.  Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.  

Quoted: The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles.  Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.

Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success?
Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards?

Quoted: Quoted: The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles.  Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.   Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success? Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards?

There is actually a nice article on this somewhere. I cant find the link. But they were discussing Chinese abilities.  It was very interesting but extremely full of speculation.  We will never really know until we start shooting or we get our hands on one.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The new 77 radar in the Raptors can also pick out other Raptors frontally at 20 miles.  Thats within range of the AIM 120 and Sidewinders.   Do you know, could PCL (Passive Coherent Location) be used to track aircraft with any degree of success? Do you think this is something China would implement or is working towards? There is actually a nice article on this somewhere. I cant find the link. But they were discussing Chinese abilities.  It was very interesting but extremely full of speculation.  We will never really know until we start shooting or we get our hands on one.

Well, I think its safe to say theres a good deal of marketing involved with the Raptor, and a little bit too much trust placed in that marketing.
I just hope that marketing doesnt end up getting our boys killed.

In our recent history, thats the MO of the USA in the big wars. We initially are unprepared and get out butts spanked in the initial battles.  Then we wake up the giant and kick some butt.  Due to politics we are never truly prepared until sometime after the bullets start flying but then many of our boys will be gone.