From Sydney7629's Wife:

My husband and I are debating what our next dog will be.  To keep it objective, I won't say who wants what.  

Currently we have two German Shepherds.  We won't get another dog until one of them passes, but my husband and I often discuss/argue about the next one we will get.  We've always had German Shepherds and we love them, but one of us really wants a Golden Retriever the next time around and the other wants to stay breed loyal.  Both the German Shepherd and Golden Retriever are beautiful breeds of dogs.  I am the primary/only caregiver for both of our dogs, therefore, I feel I should get to choose.  

We are planning to have children soon, so that must also be considered.

What do you think?

Golden Retriever.  Couldn't ask for a better dog. Smart, good with children, and easy to train.

Grew up with one... she was a great dog to have as a kid.

Golden retrievers are hyper enough to hurt a child, and be annoying as hell.  

yellow lab

If you've already got one aggressive breed (GS), then go with the Lab, IMHO.
When the times comes for me to be a part of my own family, I will have a Belgian Malinois.

Neither. Boxer.

Belgian Malinois or GSD.  Goldens are annoying.  Malinois are just as useful and smart as GSDs slightly smaller and most notablt less hair issues.
Breed info
Rescue shelter

Quoted: If you've already got one aggressive breed (GS), then go with the Lab, IMHO. When the times comes for me to be a part of my own family, I will have a Belgian Malinois.

GSD's are not aggressive.  They are highly trainable and highly motivated. But are not at all an aggressive dog any more than any other breed in the herding group.  Go to a Schutzhund trial and you'll see more Mallys than you think.  4 legged bite machines on crack.  GSDs are very easy to train and control.  If you'll do some research you'll also see that labs are responsible for more bites and injuries than GSDs.  I don't know much about ARs so I keep my mouth shut about them.  Don't be giving breed advice if you don't know any more than that about the breed.  It offends people.

Quoted: GSD's are not aggressive.  They are highly trainable and highly motivated. But are not at all an aggressive dog any more than any other breed in the herding group.  Go to a Schutzhund trial and you'll see more Mallys than you think.  4 legged bite machines on crack.  GSDs are very easy to train and control.  If you'll do some research you'll also see that labs are responsible for more bites and injuries than GSDs.  I don't know much about ARs so I keep my mouth shut about them.  Don't be giving breed advice if you don't know any more than that about the breed.  It offends people.

By your definition Pit Bulls are great family dogs too right?  More Lab bites than GSD bites?  Sure I won't refute that, but that's because most people KNOW that GSDs can be aggressive and they tend to stay away, while they assume that LABs are docile and take them for granted.  Plus the Lab is the most popular breed in America, with the Golden Retriever running second, and the GSD in third.  Your statistical smoke screen doesn't last long when someone accepts the hard fact that MORE DOGS equals MORE BITES.  

I've seen Rottweiler's with the temperament of Bunny Rabbits, and Pomeranian's that attack everyone but their owner.   Aggressiveness is very dog specific and dependant of the training provided by the owner, but I've found that a GSD, ON AVERAGE, is a more aggressive dog than a LAB or GR.  You're experiences at Schutzhund trials indicate that you're around properly trained dogs which tend to be the exception while backyard pets tend to be the norm.   I'm not anti-GSD, I think they are great dogs but I accept the facts about their temperament.  I wouldn't think twice about owning a GSD and it would be my second choice after a Belgian Malinois.

I didn't claim to be an expert on Canis Lupus Familiaris but I don't see where the thread originator limited replies to experts only like you.  If you're truly OFFENDED by a generalized opinion about an entire breed of Dog then you should either not read them or grow thicker skin.

I'd say the GS. A little hyper when they are younger, but once they mature a year or two they are fiercely loyal dogs.

I grew up with GS. They were great dogs for a kid. Protective to the hilt. My current GS is the same way. The neighbor's son is considered part of the pack. My dog will take all sorts of abuse from the 16 month old kid, but if anyone or anything threatens him the dog is all over it.

ETA: Comparing a GS to a Pit Bull is beyond comprehension. My neighbor's dog was just mauled by a PB. Three hundred bucks in medical bills later, we are hopeful she will recover fully. The PB went into the neighbor's yard and attacked the tied up dog. I've never seen a GS do such a thing. In fact, when my dog is passing another dog's yard it will try to avoid conflict. He knows and understands what is and is not his territory.

Get the German Shepherd. They are the most loyal, protective and smart dogs IMHO.

German Shep hands down are the best dogs.

Quoted: Quoted: GSD's are not aggressive.  They are highly trainable and highly motivated. But are not at all an aggressive dog any more than any other breed in the herding group.  Go to a Schutzhund trial and you'll see more Mallys than you think.  4 legged bite machines on crack.  GSDs are very easy to train and control.  If you'll do some research you'll also see that labs are responsible for more bites and injuries than GSDs.  I don't know much about ARs so I keep my mouth shut about them.  Don't be giving breed advice if you don't know any more than that about the breed.  It offends people. By your definition Pit Bulls are great family dogs too right?  More Lab bites than GSD bites?  Sure I won't refute that, but that's because most people KNOW that GSDs can be aggressive and they tend to stay away, while they assume that LABs are docile and take them for granted.  Plus the Lab is the most popular breed in America, with the Golden Retriever running second, and the GSD in third.  Your statistical smoke screen doesn't last long when someone accepts the hard fact that MORE DOGS equals MORE BITES.   I've seen Rottweiler's with the temperament of Bunny Rabbits, and Pomeranian's that attack everyone but their owner.   Aggressiveness is very dog specific and dependant of the training provided by the owner, but I've found that a GSD, ON AVERAGE, is a more aggressive dog than a LAB or GR.  You're experiences at Schutzhund trials indicate that you're around properly trained dogs which tend to be the exception while backyard pets tend to be the norm.   I'm not anti-GSD, I think they are great dogs but I accept the facts about their temperament.  I wouldn't think twice about owning a GSD and it would be my second choice after a Belgian Malinois. I didn't claim to be an expert on Canis Lupus Familiaris but I don't see where the thread originator limited replies to experts only like you.  If you're truly OFFENDED by a generalized opinion about an entire breed of Dog then you should either not read them or grow thicker skin.

Actually a properly bred, and raised pitbull will show you less aggression than you will ever show it.  They'll also help people break into your house.  Stupid people abusing them and using them for fighting has done horrible things to the breed, the breeding stock, and the reputation of the breed.  You may want to consider further educating yourself about dogs.  www.pitbullforums.com will be a good place to start.  Look up Diane Jessup a noted author of several books on the breed.  People like this www.showstopperkennelsga.com are responsible for making the dangerous pits dangerous.

I had a golden.
I can't think of a breed of dog I'd rather have again.

Quoted: Goldens are the "Cotton Candy" of the dog world...sweet and fluffy but not much substance IMO. My personal breed is, and has been for a long time, the work-bred GSD. No AKC show bloodlines allowed...W.German and Czech preferred with a working history behind them...German style herding, Police work, or Schutzhund are all honorable work, but such dogs NEED a job. If you don't give them one, they will find one...and I can pretty much guarantee that you won't like the one they pick!

Your damn right.  The GSD rescue that I used to work with has that last sentence of your post on their website almost word for word.

Before my wife and I got our dog, we debated back and forth between a GSD and a GR. I wanted the GSD and my wife wanted a GR. Guess who won that battle?

<<<----------***




You don't have to answer, but I bet your in favor of the GR. Being that you have GSD, I would go with a GR. Just remember, they are puppies for two years.

Neither. Boxer.

+1

Quoted: If you've already got one aggressive breed (GS), then go with the Lab, IMHO. When the times comes for me to be a part of my own family, I will have a Belgian Malinois.

Me too.

Quoted: Golden retrievers are hyper enough to hurt a child, and be annoying as hell.

.  Hyper dogs come from either neglect or owners who have never given them a good ass beating.

Quoted: Neither. Boxer.

A big +1.  Great dogs.  I have two.

Quoted: Actually a properly bred, and raised pitbull will show you less aggression than you will ever show it.  They'll also help people break into your house.  Stupid people abusing them and using them for fighting has done horrible things to the breed, the breeding stock, and the reputation of the breed.  You may want to consider further educating yourself about dogs.  www.pitbullforums.com will be a good place to start.  Look up Diane Jessup a noted author of several books on the breed.  People like this www.showstopperkennelsga.com are responsible for making the dangerous pits dangerous.

You make an excellent point Dusty_C.  I would like to put emphasis on the "properly bred, and raised" part.  Nothing matters more than proper training of a dog, but instincts come into play as well, and some breeds have vastly different insticts than others.

GRs are the HOs of the dog world.  We have 2 and the damn things are nice to have around but I really think they would care less who was around as long as they were fed and someone played with them.  Not much in the loyalty department.

I have seen GS that would not eat a chunk of beef in front of them until their owners said it was OK.  One of the CRNAs was a Canine handler in Vietnam.  His GS was loyal beyond belief.  He said it save his bacon on 3 occasions.  He cried like a little baby when he had to leave it behind when he was rotated home.  He tried for months and lobbied all sorts of people but couldnt get it done.  He even tried bribing a C5 crew to smuggle it to the US but got caught.

Get a Lab.  You can train them to be search and rescue dogs.  When the kids walk off the dog will find them.  We have a Lab and a Chihuahua.  When the Chihuahua was a puppy it freaked out during a bad thunder storm and ran away.  The Lab tracked the dog for about 1.5 miles through the woods and we were able to find the dog.  Labs are perhaps the most tolerant of children.

Neither.  I find all dogs annoying as hell and do not understand why some people are so adamant about owning one.  

SM

If you're lucky as I was eleven years ago you'll find a 'golden lab' also known as a 'yellow retreiver'. One could not ask for a better all 'round canine.

No, not a pure breed but that Golden Retreiver/Yellow Lab mix can't be beat!

Get a working Golden from a good breeder. You can have a great family dog and a hunting partner .The golden would be a great companion to the GS as well.

I have had a Golden Retriever in the past. She was a wonderful dog. Smart, loyal to a fault, and very gentle with children. I currently have a German Sheperd and he is also quite a dog. Keeps good watch over the property, has a character all his own and knows how to get what he wants.

I personally would go with the Golden where small children are concerned. Not because I think that a Sheperd would necessarily be bad around kids just that they tend to let their instincts take over a little to quick sometimes.

Golden Retrievers are a bit hyper when they're young, but if you have a kid, the kid will love it. If anything, the kid will wear the dog out  I haven't had a German Shepard though a neighbor did when I was a kid...great dog, too. Again, hyper, but being a kid with a hyper dog, we're both gonna get bruises, part of the game.

Both are very protective of their family.

Personally I'd go for a retreiver because I grew up around 'em, but a coin toss would be as accurate....Get Both!

Look into Shiloh Shepherds -- perfect German Shepherds times two.

Best of the GSD line bred for large size (100+ pounds for females, 120+ for males), soft temperament for families, good hips, and high intelligence. They don't have that silly sloped back that American GSDs do, either.

I shopped for a GSD for two years before I bought mine. I went with a Shiloh because I was unhappy with most of what I found in US-bred GSDs.  For intelligence, I doubt if they can be beat. Mine did all the basic commands by either hand or verbal signals at three months old without training.  You can read about him at www.druglibrary.org/chopper

Find a cross bread between a lab and and shepard.  Best dog ever.  Smart, sweet tempered, but able to be bad to the bone when pushed.  Mutts are the best.

Be forewarned that the retriever mentality is totally different from what you are used to, The shepard is a working class dog and the retriever is a retriever.
The shepard will patrol the yard and the retriever will bring you anything it can find for you to throw!
Both dogs will protect the family and act as an alarm but it can get tiring having a dog drop a ball in your lap eighteen million times n a row.
I have a yellow lab and love him to death but my shep is much more perceptive as to what I want.

Don't get a Golden Retriever, take mine for example, he casually stalks the children:







Then, he pounces on his prey(notice all four paws are clearing air):







After stalking all day, he rests for the next round;

Shepherd.

AB

GSD, and not just because one is at my feet.

I had a lab/brittney mix.  Grew up with me a my 3 younger siblings.  Never let a growl at us no matter how rough we played.  

Now I'm in a house by myself and want more of a protective bigger dog.  Like the poster above, I'm going to get a Shiloh.  The regular GSD's don't appeal to me anymore when comparing to the Shiloh's.  Now hopefully the one I'm waiting on will breed and my puppy will be here in time for spring.  Can't wait, I'm pretty excited to see how my new dog will turn out and how much I can teach it.

Quoted: I had a lab/brittney mix.  Grew up with me a my 3 younger siblings.  Never let a growl at us no matter how rough we played.   Now I'm in a house by myself and want more of a protective bigger dog.  Like the poster above, I'm going to get a Shiloh.  The regular GSD's don't appeal to me anymore when comparing to the Shiloh's.  Now hopefully the one I'm waiting on will breed and my puppy will be here in time for spring.  Can't wait, I'm pretty excited to see how my new dog will turn out and how much I can teach it.

As we have discussed, I think you will be astounded.

The intelligence of the Shilohs is amazing. Mine has picked up lots of things with only one training session. He comes from wherever he is if I just snap my fingers. He learned that the first time I tried it.  He is so smart and observant that I have to be careful how I do things. If I do something twice in a row the same way, he will pick up on the pattern by the third time I do it.  

Shiloh owners typically report that Shilohs are "intuitive". They pay attention to you like no dog you have ever seen. Mine will do lots of things just as I am getting ready to give him the command. They seem to know what you want even before you tell them.

However, there are limits on what I can teach mine. He has no interest in playing ball or doing anything else that would take him away from my side.

GSD.

nothing against retrievers, I would prefer a german shepherd of those 2 breeds.
If you must have 1 of those so be it, you also might consider a rescue from the humame society who's days are numbered.
Myself I have a lot of dogs, some are pure breds, and some are mixes, we all make a great pack. I've had german shepherds and I have 1 now and I always enjoy having a shepherd because they seem to be more human like in thought than most any other dog, I honestly think they are on a slightly different level intelligence wise. But again all dogs are beautiful and awesome! I'd have them all if I could. But I always prefer to have 1 german shepherd in the pack.

I got our most recent shepherd from this breeder in montana and I'd highly recommend them for a very well socialized gsd puppy raised with children and with a very sound temperament and ability to protect.

go to puppies available

sapphireshepherds.com/

this is fenris who I bought from there, he's only 1 1/2, about 90 pounds which is what he'll weigh






this is thor my other pure bred german shepherd, who passed away along with mafausa in july '03.

Quoted: Neither.  I find all dogs annoying as hell and do not understand why some people are so adamant about owning one.   SM

Because those of us that do own them don't find them "annoying as hell".

Assuming you are willing to spend an equal amount of money, that's easy - Golden Retriever.  I've seen some real trash German Shepards that bark until they are exhausted.  Then they sleep for a few minutes and bark till exhausted, etc.  I've also seen a couple of very expensive GS that were so smart it was scary.  They were great.  My Golden is the best dog I've ever had seen.  He rarely barks unless there is something very unusual going on.  He is very easy to train.  We live on a farm and he gets put to work running errands.  He will carry parts or notes back and forth from house to barn.  The intelligence is unbelievable so I won't bother bragging anymore.  However, we have friends with a Golden 'that they got a good deal on' who is worthless.  The dog has no positive traits whatsoever.

Temperment & intellegence is going to be specific to the bloodline. I've seen Goldens that were as laidback as a pothead. The Golden that I had, was too smart for his own good. Very gentle, would chase the cat and hold her down and slober her up from nose to tail. Never chased our ducks or geese. Taught him as a pup to chase armadillos and he was pure hell on them.  Was born housebroken, never once had an accident. But he demanded 24/7 attention. If you weren't there touching him all the time, he'd go find someone that would. More than once I'd get a call and have to drive 2 miles to pick him up because he had worn out a group of kids playing. I swear, I was too the point of asking the vet for Ritlan. Best dog that was ever part of my family, kept you entertained for hours if you had the time. Downside was the hair. They shed year around. He was AKC registered and bloodlines were for temperment.

I'm torn between getting another golden, spayed female next time or a retired GS service dog. Told a friend at a kennel to lmk if he hears of a retiring service animal. Tough call, no guarantees.

Quoted: Neither.  I find all dogs annoying as hell and do not understand why some people are so adamant about owning one.   SM

The question was, which one, not should I. Your opinion means nothing.

Quoted: Be forewarned that the retriever mentality is totally different from what you are used to, The shepard is a working class dog and the retriever is a retriever. The shepard will patrol the yard and the retriever will bring you anything it can find for you to throw! Both dogs will protect the family and act as an alarm but it can get tiring having a dog drop a ball in your lap eighteen million times n a row. I have a yellow lab and love him to death but my shep is much more perceptive as to what I want.

Mine must of been sleeping during that class. He rarely retrieves anything. He is obsessed with water/swimming and chasing squirrels.

Quoted: Quoted: Be forewarned that the retriever mentality is totally different from what you are used to, The shepard is a working class dog and the retriever is a retriever. The shepard will patrol the yard and the retriever will bring you anything it can find for you to throw! Both dogs will protect the family and act as an alarm but it can get tiring having a dog drop a ball in your lap eighteen million times n a row. I have a yellow lab and love him to death but my shep is much more perceptive as to what I want. Mine must of been sleeping during that class. He rarely retrieves anything. He is obsessed with water/swimming and chasing squirrels.

My GSD used to retrieve anything and loved swimming. Oh and motoguzzi, GSDs are in the herding group, not the working group.  And a lot of them will try to herd you on walks.  A damn good trainer is an absolute must for a GSD.

Quoted: Quoted: If you've already got one aggressive breed (GS), then go with the Lab, IMHO. When the times comes for me to be a part of my own family, I will have a Belgian Malinois. GSD's are not aggressive.  They are highly trainable and highly motivated. But are not at all an aggressive dog any more than any other breed in the herding group.  Go to a Schutzhund trial and you'll see more Mallys than you think.  4 legged bite machines on crack.  GSDs are very easy to train and control.  If you'll do some research you'll also see that labs are responsible for more bites and injuries than GSDs.  I don't know much about ARs so I keep my mouth shut about them.  Don't be giving breed advice if you don't know any more than that about the breed.  It offends people.

Just curious - is that strictly on a by-occurence basis or a per-capita basis.  Given that Labs are the most popular breed in the US, that stat doesn't mean much on its own if it isn't a dogs/bite stat.

It's a generic stat based on people walking into an ER, Clinic, or DR's office for a bite and them asking "What kind of dog bit you?"  What it does not show at all are circumstances.  I'd bet that a lot of them are people that weren't bit, but were wrestling and caught a tooth.  Just like a lot of people will get bit by a boxer, or mastiff, or bull dog, or lots of other breeds, and tell them it was a pitbull.  The stats are no where close to %100 but they are the best thing out right now.

We've owned 2 Goldens.  We got the first one when our son was a year and a half old.  After rusty died (11 years old) we got another one (Toby).  

Goldens are great with children of all ages.  All around fantastic dogs.  Easy to train, loyal, friendly, and loving.

Good luck with your next dog.  I hope it takes awhile (that way your current dogs live longer).

- CD

Cause of injury  Emergency room incidents annually
Baseball/softball  404,364
Dog bites 333,687
Playground accidents  268,810
All-terrain vehicles, mopeds, etc. 125,136
Volleyball 97,523
Inline skating  75,994
Horseback riding 71,162
Baby walkers 28,000
Skateboards 25,486



FWIW:


Dog Bite Statistics


www.dogexpert.com/HomePage/DogBiteStatistics.html


In the last several years a surfeit of statistical informaton about dog bites have been generated by epidemiologists. This information has become widely disseminated on the internet, partially in an attempt to lessen the extent of the problem through education and increased public awareness about the circumstances and the kind of dogs known to be associated with attacks on people. Collecting dog bite statistics is certainly an important and valid area of public health inquiry: the frequency of dog bites is high and the emotional and physical damage inflicted onto a human, particularly a child, from an attack by a dog can be great. A better understanding of the epidemiology of dog bites thru description with statistics may help in the prevention of this widespread phenomenon.

The information presented below has been gathered from numerous sources, many of which include news reports on the internet. The reader should assumed the information below is accurate, although no attempt at independent validation has been made by this author.


Facts & Stats about Dog Bites & Dog Aggression
There are approximately 4.5 million reported dog bites annually in the United States (nearly 2% of the American population). The majority of dog bites are never reported to local authorities.

40% of American dog owners acquired pets primarily for protection-including German shepherds, Rottweilers, mastiffs and Doberman pinschers. (Source: New York Times, 2/26/01)

Nationwide, U.S. Postal Service carriers suffered 3,423 dog attacks and bites in 2003.


According to the American Medical Association, dog bites are the second leading cause of childhood injury, surpassing playground accidents.

Dog bites to people of the male gender are approximately two times greater than the incidence involving females.


Dogs that are licensed with an identifiable owner are implicated in the vast majority of dog bites (compared with strays).


Dogs not known to the victim account for approximately 10 - 20% of all reported dog bites.


Dog between one and five years are involved in more dog bite incidences than dogs older than 6 years. Male dogs are more frequently involved when compared with female dogs.

Mixed breeds and not pure bred dogs are the type of dog most often involved in inflicting bites to people. The pure-bred dogs most often involved are German shepherds and Chow chows.



The list of breeds most involved in both bite injuries and fatalities changes from year to year and from one area of the country to another, depending on the popularity of the breed.



The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention document that a chained dog is 2.8 times more likely to bite than an unchained dog. Click here for a news story about a mauling of a 4 year old child by a chained pit bull



Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.



Of the estimated 4.7 million people who were bitten by dogs in 1994, 800,000 sought medical care. Of these, 332,000 needed treatment in emergency rooms, and 6,000 were hospitalized. The average hospital stay for a dog-bite injury was 3.6 days.


Emergency room costs for dog bite victims in the United States was about $102 million in 1994, and overall direct medical costs was about $165 million.


The majority of dog bites to adult humans are inflicted to the lower extremities followed by bites to the upper extremities including the head, face and neck. For children, 77% of dog bite injuries are to facial areas.

According to the Insurance Information Institute, dog bites accounted for about one-quarter of all claims on homeowner's insurance, costing more than $321 million in 2003. In 2002, the latest year for which numbers are available, the average claim for a dog bite was $16,600.

Dog attacks account for one-third of all liability claims on homeowners' insurance policies. According to the Western Insurance Information Service, the insurance industry paid out more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims in 1998 alone.



From 1979 to 1996, dog attacks resulted in more than 300 human dog bite related deaths in the United States. Most of the victims were children.



Approximately 20 people die every year as a result of a dog attack in the United States. By far, the majority of the victims are children.



In the two year period from 1997 to 1998, twenty-seven people died as a result of dog bite attacks (18 in 1997, and 9 in 1998).



Annually in the United States there are approximately 20 human fatalities directly resulting from a dog attack; this number is miniscule compared with human fatalities caused by gunshot (approximately 12,000 annually), accidents (approximately 100,000 annually) or health related disease processes (click here for table) (Click here for commentary on this subject)


The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.



In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.


Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks in 1997 and 1998, 67% involved unrestrained dogs on the owner's property; 19% involved unrestrained dogs off the owner's property; 11% involved restrained dogs on the owner's property; and 4% involved a restrained dog off the owner's property.


Of the 27 people who died as a result of dog bite attacks during 1997 and 1998, 67% involved an attack by one dog; 19% involved an attack by two dogs; and 15% involved an attack by 3 or more dogs.


From 1979 to 1998, at least 25 breeds of dogs have been involved in bite related deaths. Pit Bulls and Rottweilers were involved in more than 50 percent of these incidences.



In a study reported by a retired professor from California State University at Chino, Robert Plum, it was found that one dog in 55 will bite someone seriously during the course of a year. With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds.



Dog Bite Statistics from: Texas, 1997, 1998; Australia (pdf file);