Question on selling a gun from your own collection

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question on selling a gun from your own collection

Posted: 9/21/2005 9:49:43 PM EDT

Can you legaly sell one of your own guns without doing the proper paper work on the transaction like you would have to do when buying from a gun dealer? I was told by more then one FFL that as a private citizen you can sell your own legal bought firearm to anyone you want to with out any paper work or background check. Is that accurate info? I always thought it was.

I read in the October issue of American Rifleman that a guy was arested for selling his personel firearms without doing the proper paper work! Thank you!

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:06:15 PM EDT

[#1]

Usually FTF transaction are not a problem. Some states its limited to longguns. Handguns you need to have purchase permits like in Michigan and you need a police inspection card.

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:08:14 PM EDT

[#2]

I can sell mine in Indiana I would get a bill of sale though. Don't know about CO but if thats what your gun dealer is telling you believe it.

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:09:46 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Usually FTF transaction are not a problem. Some states its limited to longguns. Handguns you need to have purchase permits like in Michigan and you need a police inspection card.

I live in Colorado. I want to sell a Handgun to a friend, Can I do it with out doing any paperwork? Where can I find out the law? Thank you!

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:13:16 PM EDT

[#4]

Here's another question: If I buy a gun and then decide to sell it to a friend later, how long do I have to wait to make sure some ATF asshole doesn't make an example of me and book me with a straw purchase?

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:13:55 PM EDT

[#5]

I think as long as you and your friend live in the same state, all your friend has to do is write you a check.

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:19:48 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Here's another question: If I buy a gun and then decide to sell it to a friend later, how long do I have to wait to make sure some ATF asshole doesn't make an example of me and book me with a straw purchase?

Now you are speaking of some thing that would have to legally involve "Intent"

If you "Intended" to buy a gun that was really for your freind you would legally be guilty.
If you Did Not "Intend" to do so you would not.

See, It's all about "Intent" or the ability to prove(beyond a resonable doubt) Intent

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:31:34 PM EDT

[#7]

At www.doingfreedom.com I found that Colorado along with Florida falls under a law that says background checks have to be done when buying from an FFL or at a gun show but no regulations for private sales.

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:33:24 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's another question: If I buy a gun and then decide to sell it to a friend later, how long do I have to wait to make sure some ATF asshole doesn't make an example of me and book me with a straw purchase?

Now you are speaking of some thing that would have to legally involve "Intent"

If you "Intended" to buy a gun that was really for your freind you would legally be guilty.
If you Did Not "Intend" to do so you would not.

See, It's all about "Intent" or the ability to prove(beyond a resonable doubt) Intent

I'm just wondering whether or not you could get in trouble if you buy a gun and decide to sell it to someone a couple months later. The whole "intent" thing is what bothers me: how do you prove a negative?

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:35:03 PM EDT

[#9]

I've done it many times. just did a trade last weak. couldn't tell you the guys name if I had to right now.

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:39:07 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I've done it many times. just did a trade last weak. couldn't tell you the guys name if I had to right now.

So if that guy robbed a bank with your old gun(assuming it has a paper trail to you) and killed someone with it can you get in trouble?

Posted: 9/21/2005 10:44:45 PM EDT

[#11]

Really about how much you trust your friend. If he shoots up a daycare the next day, you may be in trouble if you bought the gun the day before and sold it to him. Other than that, just make sure that the person is able to legally own a gun or more importantly that you know that if they are not allowed to own a gun don't sell it to them.

Posted: 9/21/2005 11:09:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I've done it many times. just did a trade last weak. couldn't tell you the guys name if I had to right now.

So if that guy robbed a bank with your old gun(assuming it has a paper trail to you) and killed someone with it can you get in trouble?

Number one they wouldn't be able to trace it to me as I got it the same way and number 2 it's fairly easy to establish an alibi. Believe it or not cops are pretty good at telling when you are lying or telling the truth.

Posted: 9/21/2005 11:11:13 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Really about how much you trust your friend. If he shoots up a daycare the next day, you may be in trouble if you bought the gun the day before and sold it to him. Other than that, just make sure that the person is able to legally own a gun or more importantly that you know that if they are not allowed to own a gun don't sell it to them.

How? it's not against the law to sell my property and I have no duty to determine if someone is able to "legally own a gun".

Posted: 9/21/2005 11:25:57 PM EDT

[#14]

It will be a problem if you know that they can't own a gun and you sell them one anyway.

Edit: My main point is to cover your ass. Don't be stupid.

Posted: 9/22/2005 6:14:54 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

I read in the October issue of American Rifleman that a guy was arested for selling his personel firearms without doing the proper paper work! Thank you!

Are you referencing the guy in TN who did this? If so, there is MUCH more to that story than what the American Rifleman printed. Without getting bogged down here, this guy and several of his friends were selling a LOT of guns at local flea markets. They had been warned by the ATF that they were more like "engaged in the business of selling firearms" than just selling personal guns. They were doing this without a FFL and some of the "customers" were from out of state and some of the guns were ending up in crimes.

The main reason the judge did not sentence him to the federal guidelines was due to his extreme age and bad health.

There is a lot more to this story than what was printed.

Posted: 9/22/2005 10:46:54 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

I'm just wondering whether or not you could get in trouble if you buy a gun and decide to sell it to someone a couple months later. The whole "intent" thing is what bothers me: how do you prove a negative?

A couple of months would not send up a red flag for a straw sale, IMO. A couple of minutes would, but not months.

Posted: 9/22/2005 10:47:34 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I've done it many times. just did a trade last weak. couldn't tell you the guys name if I had to right now.

For the last several years, I get a guy's DL info who buys a gun from me. YMMV.

Posted: 9/22/2005 10:49:18 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Are you referencing the guy in TN who did this? If so, there is MUCH more to that story than what the American Rifleman printed. Without getting bogged down here, this guy and several of his friends were selling a LOT of guns at local flea markets.

They stood on chairs at guns shows & yelled out "No paperwork at this table on sales." Pissed off a lot of dealers. I have NO sympathy for these retards.

Posted: 9/22/2005 10:52:21 AM EDT

[#19]

check your state laws.

Private party transfers are perfectly legal in Tx.

There might be some federal laws to adhere to as well if the gun crosses state lines...

Posted: 9/22/2005 10:56:27 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's another question: If I buy a gun and then decide to sell it to a friend later, how long do I have to wait to make sure some ATF asshole doesn't make an example of me and book me with a straw purchase?

Now you are speaking of some thing that would have to legally involve "Intent"

If you "Intended" to buy a gun that was really for your freind you would legally be guilty.
If you Did Not "Intend" to do so you would not.

See, It's all about "Intent" or the ability to prove(beyond a resonable doubt) Intent

The eligibility of your "friend" to purchase a handgun legally (convicted felon, under21, etc.) would come into play as well.

Posted: 9/22/2005 11:01:55 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I read in the October issue of American Rifleman that a guy was arested for selling his personel firearms without doing the proper paper work! Thank you!

Are you referencing the guy in TN who did this? If so, there is MUCH more to that story than what the American Rifleman printed. Without getting bogged down here, this guy and several of his friends were selling a LOT of guns at local flea markets. They had been warned by the ATF that they were more like "engaged in the business of selling firearms" than just selling personal guns. They were doing this without a FFL and some of the "customers" were from out of state and some of the guns were ending up in crimes.

The main reason the judge did not sentence him to the federal guidelines was due to his extreme age and bad health.

There is a lot more to this story than what was printed.

Yes and thank you!

I only sell to friends once in a while. I just worrie that if they ever sell it to someone.

Posted: 9/22/2005 1:42:05 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I read in the October issue of American Rifleman that a guy was arested for selling his personel firearms without doing the proper paper work! Thank you!

Are you referencing the guy in TN who did this? If so, there is MUCH more to that story than what the American Rifleman printed. Without getting bogged down here, this guy and several of his friends were selling a LOT of guns at local flea markets. They had been warned by the ATF that they were more like "engaged in the business of selling firearms" than just selling personal guns. They were doing this without a FFL and some of the "customers" were from out of state and some of the guns were ending up in crimes.

The main reason the judge did not sentence him to the federal guidelines was due to his extreme age and bad health.

There is a lot more to this story than what was printed.

Yes and thank you!

I only sell to friends once in a while. I just worrie that if they ever sell it to someone.

You worry too much. Believe it or not this IS still the United States of America.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question on selling a gun from your own collection

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