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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:09:36 PM EDT
[#1]
They buy in bulk. This makes the cost cheaper. Or so I was told. A few of my anchors came from there, and before that trajic accident, they all ran fine.
Scott |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:11:21 PM EDT
[#2]
I seriously doubt they have custom made guns made shittier than normal.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:13:06 PM EDT
[#3]
It's the same exact guns because if there's a problem you need to contact the manufacturer past the retail return period. It's too much trouble to have a separate line just for Wally World.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:17:02 PM EDT
[#4]
They buy so many at one time they can afford to sell them cheaper. They might make less of a profit but they make up for it in the amount they sell.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:17:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Everyone else has said it already. The deals come because of bulk buying. One thing you will see at Wal-Mart every once in awhile is a "Wal-Mart" only model. I remember a couple including the early laminated stock Ruger 10/22, a 20inch barrel 10/22, the Beretta 3901 (or whatever it was), the 11-87 with Sam Walton's image inlaid in Gold (yeah, that was a good idea), and there have probably been a few others. I think some of the Remington ADL package deals may have been unique to Wal-Mart.
shooter |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:18:36 PM EDT
[#6]
I've never had a problem with any rifles I've purchased from WalMart.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:19:12 PM EDT
[#7]
I worked at Wal-Mart sporting goods many many years ago. (God why didn't I invest!)
Anyway, we heard "Wal-Mart sells a poorly made version of (fill in the blank)" of just about every higher priced item we sold from tools, to guns, to fishing/camping equipment, etc. When you have a small store that can't compete with the volume buying of Wal-Mart, you have to come up with some story to try to keep your customers. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:20:40 PM EDT
[#8]
I remember reading somewhere that Walmart will buy guns manufacturers catch in quality control and thus gets a discounted price on them. I have no idea if that is true or not though.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:22:17 PM EDT
[#9]
I heard that the stocks on Walmart guns are particleboard for wood and the metal used in the barrel and reciever is the same kind as used in the hotwheel cars.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:24:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Yeah, I have one of those. It's a Ruger 10/22-22. It's a stainless steel 10/22 with a 22" barrel and nicer stock. It's only sold at Walmart, I think it was just over $200. I don't see it on their website any more. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:27:14 PM EDT
[#11]
As long as they take standard ammunition, and they chambers aren't made to "Chinese Standard" measurements...  (If you need to ask, you've never tried fitting a US made 10/32 screw into a Chinese "10/32" fitting... they're actually 9.89/31... and no, they're not made to metric standards either...  )
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:32:06 PM EDT
[#12]
I also heard that no matter what brand the firearm is they are all really made in a firearms plant in Costa Rica by sweatshop slave children for 5 cents an hour while the Walton clan whips at them yelling to pledge their loyalty to the Wal-Mart.
I swear. Really. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:37:09 PM EDT
[#13]
oh come on now... 
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:40:05 PM EDT
[#14]
A few 500's our local got had finish blems.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:40:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Of course there are differences. Some members here don't believe certain things even when shown the facts. They have their own preconceptions and don't let facts change them. Besides the wood, a member on falfiles.com posted pictures of the finishing marks on the inside of a Remington rifle from Wal-Mart versus one from anywhere else both purchased the same month. It was obvious that they skipped the final step for the cheaper Wal-Mart version. It was nothing that would affect function, so it wasn't a big deal but it was obviously different.z |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:41:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Wal-Mart has low prices because of HUUUUGE volume. They have guns for sale that my ffl guy probably can't get that cheap. I suspect that's all there is to it. Wal-Mart is going to want to fart around with intentionally crappy guns, that means returns, which means lost profits on items which I suspect have a small market up.
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:44:03 PM EDT
[#17]
You guys do know that Wal-Mart bullets don't even have gun powder in them right? They have the same filler as those Snap-n-Pop baggies that you throw on pavement to make a poping sound.
Really. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:44:50 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:45:25 PM EDT
[#19]
I've got one too. The only link I can find is this guys rinky dink sight. I think my owners manual says "walmart exclusive" on it. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:47:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Then it is the most elaborate scheme EVER. Wal-Mart deals with the same distributors who stock virtually every other sporting goods store on the planet. When I was sporting goods department manager if I wanted a gun (special order or regular stock) I called a distributor and they shipped a gun. For Wal-Mart guns to be inferior the distributor would have to get a special shipment for Wal-Mart, keep distinct inventories (complicating their own processes and raising costs), and maintain that system with integrity or avoid breaking the price deals with Wal-Mart. I think that what you see is there are MANY examples of poor quality control on lower end firearms but so many are from Wal-Mart because they sell the majority of those guns. I also think that if you take a look at the entire gun room stock of any store you would see the same number of quality control issues as a percentage. shooter |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:50:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Wish they'd turn the economies of scale onto EBRs,
wonder how much a FN-F2000 would cost if you werre buying 4000 at once... |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:54:03 PM EDT
[#22]
UPDATE
Well, we sure have enough wise asses here.............can anyone explain why the noticable difference in wood quality/appearance betwee DICKS and Walmart then? Especially on an American made gun? I mentioned a Marlin in my post, which are made in USA. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 2:59:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Because they are from a different lot or assembly line? They may have two machines for the same job on two lines side by side. I have seen wood of a different hue because.....get this.........it came from two different trees. There are a million different reason as to why they could look differently and it may be as simple as they employ two different inspectors with different QC opinions. They are really the same as far as the manufacturer is concerned. Really. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:08:31 PM EDT
[#24]
I will explain it when you explain why every major mass producer out there also has variation. Why didn't every Chrysler 4 speed electronically controlled transmission crap out? Why only half? Let's be honest here. Anytime you deal with nature or manufacturing (especially in the entry-level price range) there is variation. When I buy handguns I ask the dealer if they have a couple I can pick from of a model because there is VERY often difference between different guns. It isn't so much that there is a difference between Dick's and Wal-Mart as there is a difference between two Wal-Mart guns of the same model. When I was at Wal-Mart customers frequently asked me to pick out the best looking of a model of gun for them (most noticable wood grain....whatever). shooter |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:08:48 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:11:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Call up Marlin. Ask them. Tell them what you've noticed and have them explain it.
Couldn't hurt, and it might be fun. ------------------------------------------ www.marlinfirearms.com/FAQs/index.php#Q01 FAQ 1. Q) What is Marlin's address and telephone number? A) For Mail: Marlin Service P.O. Box 248 North Haven, CT 06473 For Product Returns: MFC 100 Kenna Drive North Haven, CT 06473 Telephone Number for Service: 800-544-8892 ---------------------------------- |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:11:21 PM EDT
[#27]
I agree with Shooter220. If they really go through normal distributors then there's no way their could be a legitimate discrepancy. It has to be simply that flaws are more noticeable with the higher volume of low-price guns that WalMart moves.
The wood differences you observed were more than likely simply because wood varies from one production run to the next- I'll bet if you went from DICKS to Sportsman's Warehouse the wood would look a little different there as well. The guns were no doubt made months apart and from totally different wood sources, even if they were observed in the stores on the same day. Unless WalMart is getting the guns shipped straight to them without going through the normal distributors, as Shooter220 observed while working there, I just don't see how a difference could be possible. ETA: Also, it seems as mentioned below and as referenced in the Ruger 10/22 -22 thing, WalMart is pretty up-front about their WalMart special guns. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:12:33 PM EDT
[#28]
There will be no difference in quality there may be a difference in features… Wal-Mart does sometime have extras nobody else gets. Wal-Mart can be selling a gun with different features than you can find anywhere else, Wal-Mart has special model of some firearms made just for them. Wal-Mart for years has had a Wal-Mart only special Ruger 10/22, it different from the standard 10/22 by having a longer barrel and a NICER walnut stock, beach stocks are normal 10/22. Wal-Mart also sold several other 10/22 variant available through them only all of which were upgrades from the standard 10/22. So Wal-Mart can sell a model of gun with features found no where else. But if someone tell you Wal-Mart sell guns of lesser quality or seconds that person is ignorant or lying. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:12:48 PM EDT
[#29]
No, they are not made cheaper. Can you imagine the legal liability of selling a 'cheaper' firearm? One or two suits would destroy them, especially with the crazy damage awards being given from jurys. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:16:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Wal-Mart deals direct with the manufacture normally and as I explained above Wal-Mart gets special runs made just for them (just like Sears used to do) so there can be differences in appearance like wood… but the quality is the same. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:18:20 PM EDT
[#31]
 BTW: I never did this, but I did wipe the metal surfaces down with a silicon cloth. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:20:30 PM EDT
[#32]
Not quite, they negotiate special MODELS that are sold through normal distribution channels. I checked in THOUSANDS of guns at Wal-Mart, including logging the distributors. NEVER did one come straight from the manufacturer. shooter |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 3:21:00 PM EDT
[#33]
2 years ago, Walmart sold me a beaut of an 870 Combo, 26" rem-choke barrel, 3 chokes, 18" iron sight, fully rifled barrel, sling, case, 12 guage cleaning kit for $279 + tax...
I'm happy with that. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:01:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Maybe we should start by explaining statistics and the scientific method. How many Walmart and Dicks did you go to? What were your criteria for measuring quality? Did you measure the same points on each weapon? Did you consider doing a blind test where you examine the weapons for quality but don't know which dealer they were from? Were they randomly sampled. etc. etc. The fact that you feel that you found one or two "good" guns at Dicks and one or two "bad" guns at Walmart doesn't mean squat. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:03:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Got a few dumb ones too. Check the model or catalog number if it is the same, the guns are the same. If it isn't there might be some cosmetic differences. In any case you really think that the mfrs are going to put out faulty guns on purpose? They just have to pay to get them fiexed later. Does Wal-Mart have WM only models, yes and they are generally advertised as such. Different length barrels, different finish combinations, etc. Several 10/22 versions were WM only. Some plained down and others fancied up. Big 5 does it too, and if you go to gun shows where the factory reps are, they will show you the differences and label them as such in the displays. For example the Winchester "Ranger" guns sold at Big-5 are examples as I recall. The "Ranger" 94s or (whatever the Big-5 diferential is, and I was told it was the name "Ranger") have birch instead of walnut and no checkering. Does Marlin do the same thing for Wal-Mart. Who knows? In anycase it won't be a second. Unless you prefer to believe your local gunstore employee and we all know how smart and honest some of them are. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:07:55 PM EDT
[#36]
I worked for three different textile companies that sold to Wal-Mart. We did special runs for just Wal-Mart since Wal-Mart had different requirements than our other customers. They had special requirements to meet certain price points, different labeling requirements, and different bulk packaging requirements. For example, the Sara Lee hose sold to Wal-Mart skipped an inspection, used a different more expensive printer for barcodes(since Wal-Mart charges so much when the clerk has to the key the UPC), and used slightly different packaging so you could stack more of the product on the same depth shelf. When I did contact work for Kayser Roth (makes L'eggs brand hose) in Yadkinville, NC, they did special much lower-quality runs just for Wal-Mart to meet Wal-Mart's price point. Wal-Mart dictated the price, so the manufacturer had to adjust accordingly. Why is it so hard to believe that guns work the same way as other products that Wal-Mart sales?z |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:32:04 PM EDT
[#37]
Wal-Mart's pricing advantages are due mainly to their buying in bulk. Because they are the world's largest retailer, they DO have the power to specify how products are made and the cost they will pay. Lots of manufacturers of all sorts of items make Wal-Mart only items specifically to meet Wal-Mart's stringent pricing requirements.
That being said, I am unsure how Wal-Mart buys firearms. I know that they deal with the same firearms wholesalers that other gunshops use for some firearms like special orders, but I don't know if they buy high volume models directly from the manufacturer. If they do buy directly from the manufacturer (which some of their Wal-Mart only guns like the Ruger 10/22 and some of the Marlin semi-auto .22s seem to indicate....) then it is entirely possible that manufacturers have special production for guns bound for Wal-Mart. That being said, you will find that quality of fit and finish varies widely on lots of products. If you have ever worked on the line in a plant that makes finished products (I worked QC in a plant for a while...) that many factors go into producing a quality finished product. Machines can go out of spec or be set up improperly, sub-contracted components can be exceptionally good or exceptionally bad, and individual employees can be sloppy or very good in what they produce, as can entire shifts.... Wood itself is a bad judge of quality because wood itself varies so widely. Veteran guitar buyers can testify to this. Wood varies wildly from tree to tree. Take the Remington 870 Express, for example. I have seen some specimens (a good many) that have extremely ugly wood, and seen others that actually have very nice wood. It really is a luck of the draw kind of thing. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:32:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Because guns have a liability and serialized production that water hoses, t shirts, and cologne doesn't have. Who gets hurt if a cheap t shirt fades? Who gets hurt if a gun kabooms? |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:35:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Indeed. I don't think most people are familiar with how Wal-Mart does their buying. They sit the manufacturer in a room and tell them what price they are going to pay for the product, what packaging it will be in, and the like. The people representing the manufacturer try to negotiate and occasionally get a concession or two from Wal-Mart, but that is RARE. It is not at all uncommon for a manufacturer to come up with shortcuts just to try and meet Wal-Mart's price. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:38:44 PM EDT
[#40]
The raw materials are going to be essentially the same. I can make a Marlin 336 with equisite attention to detail, or I can make one as quick and cheap as possible but use the same raw materials for either weapon. To make one cheap all I have to do is use lower grade wood, spend fewer man-hours on items like polishing and machining. The end result is that I can produce a weapon that is mechanically just as strong as the higher end weapons I produce, but that has a rougher overall fit and finish and that has far less invested in it. The 870 Express, for instance, wasn't made out of different materials than the 870 Wingmaster when they were both in Remington's lineup. The difference was in the quality of wood used on them, the finish, and the ammount of hand work like polishing that went into making the weapon. I don't believe you will find manufacturers using Wal-Mart only steel, as that would be complicated and problematic for production. You may indeed find that they use Wal-Mart only wood, and have a Wal-Mart only manufacturing process that might not have as much attention to detail as their normal production. Think of Wal-Mart mandating a larger than normal strike zone..... |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:44:01 PM EDT
[#41]
This is the key, right here. WalMart does not say 'Build us shittier guns that will blow up.' WalMart says 'Build us 17,000 Remington 700 ADL rifles for X cost.' WalMart is part of the reason that many manufaturers, not just of guns, have beguns to use shittier materials in their products. Aluminum where steel used to be. Plastic where aluminum used to be. Pot metal where plastic used to be. Products as a whole have begun to go downhill. Not just the things found in WalMart. Obviously none of these manufaturers is going to turn out a gun that will KB on somebody. Nor is Wally World asking them to. But the manufaturers will cut corners when their biggest customer calls up, and says 'We want another 14,000 this year, shipped through RSR, but we need to cut costs by 14 cents per unit.' Do they tell WalMart to suck hind tit? I doubt it. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:47:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Im not gonna say they are sub par but they come through the store fairly often as trade ins and fuinction fine but the fit and finish seems just a tad lower IMO.
Call me a lying gunshop commando if you wish but there seems to be a pattern especialy with Remingtons and 700 ADLs particular  
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Posted: 9/21/2005 4:57:02 PM EDT
[#43]
You see this pattern with all the big box stores,Home Depot,Walmart Etc. HD might sell a Pease door but it is in a HD frame, has no magnetic weather stripping and other short cuts. Same thing applies to cabinets,windows and I believe tools. Same name, same basic parts but the detail work and special features get dropped. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:11:47 PM EDT
[#44]
You beat me to it. I have read some interesting articles about how Wal Mart does business. They dominate the market on so many items and have the ability to dictate what they will pay. An article I read had an interview, I think it was with Vlasic pickles. In it, the head of Vlasic stated that they had run out of ways to cut costs and were losing money on every 5 gallon jar of pickles they sold to Wal Mart because Wal Mart wouldn't pay any more for them. In order to keep other Vlasic products that actually carried a margin on the shelf in the chain that accounts for 70% of sales, they had to eat that loss. IIRC the name of the article referenced pickles if someone wants to try and dig it up. Now, let's say Wal Mart says to Remington (just to use an example, it could be any gun company), "we want 250,000 870 Express shotgun at $50 per unit, and we want them shipped at the end of the quarter", what are they going to do? I say it's entirely plausible that they order and stock cheaper wood that they set aside for that run, and cut a final polish out of the finishing process on that run in order to cut their own cost and deliver on time to such a large customer. It's still the same gun. It's in no way ore or less safe. I am also willing to bet that the paperwork MIGHT be handled by a distributor, but the guns themselves are drop shipped to Wal Mart. You can't meet Wal Mart's price point by shipping and inventorying them an extra step. I guarantee it. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:11:52 PM EDT
[#45]
UPDATE 2 Guys, I am not talking about faulty or mechanically inferior guns...........I am only talking about fit and finish and perhaps a cheaper cosmetic part or two. Things like wood finishing, butt pads, rear sights, etc. By the way the rear sights on the DICKS sporting goods were different than the Wal Mart ones............not inferior, just different. Would it be plausible that Walmart could have gone to Marlin and said we need a 30-30 rifle made that will be at this price point? |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:13:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Read the above. That is exactly how Wal Mart does business. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:28:07 PM EDT
[#47]
I worked in the clothing industry. What zoom says exactly coincides with my experiences. In fact, Walmart even dictated how much we were allowed to mark our goods up! We kept two sets of books: one with "cooked" COGS to show the Walmart executives, another with our true COGS that allowed us to track our true profitability. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:38:10 PM EDT
[#48]
so if they made a gun for walmart that met a particular price point, would it have a different model number?
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:40:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Yes... or at least a different catalog/part number. |
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Posted: 9/21/2005 5:40:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Did you read the thread? No, not necessarily. |
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