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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:24:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Why are you putting M-16 magazines in there? Have you had problems with them? I don't know about the others but good USGI mags tend to be very reliable.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:26:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Remember... Gov contracts are awarded to the LOWIST bidder.. Not on quality..
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:33:22 PM EDT
[#3]
One factor in the legendary reliability of the AK-47 and AKM is the robust magazine. You can stomp on them and drive a nail with one and they still function. You can't do that with a flimsy USGI magazine.
Bent feed lips, cracked feed lips, dented mag bodies, weak follower springs are all symptoms of USGI mags. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:34:52 PM EDT
[#4]
USGI M14 mags are crappy?
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Allright, thats it. All of you that have those POS USGI mags just send them on over to me. I'll properly discard of them for you
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:36:52 PM EDT
[#6]
My M14 mags were always solid, M1 mags are not so bad either. My CZ75 mags are not as robust as my 1911 mags.......
SOme countries over do their mags, but the US uses mags as throwaway items, so why overmake them? |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:37:55 PM EDT
[#7]
I never had a problem with the seven magazines I carried around Iraq for a year for the M16. (Now those crappy SAW 200 round plastic drums, we can talk about those.) |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:40:46 PM EDT
[#8]
US magazines are designed for limited life.
I believe 30 round M-16 mags are designed to be loaded 7 times and then descard. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#9]
USGI M-16 magazines were not originally designed to be reused, at least in combat. They were to charged with ammunition, loaded into the weapon, exhausted and discarded. They were meant to be lightweight, easy to manufacture and cheap. I'd say they succeeded.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 12:42:21 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't think it's a matter of US mags being flimsy, but rather other countries are over-built.
Look at my HK-93 for example. Most anal retentive German engineering on the planet. Action more suitable for medium sized artillery. Even has a bottle cap opener. It also does not group, point, or swing half as well as an AR, weighs more, and frankly, the trigger sucks.  Now, AK mags are rugged because you ARE giving them to idiots that would use them for a hammer. You know, this is the first time I've ever heard someone call an M14 mag flimsy.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:00:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Compare your M14 feed lips to the feed lips on a AK47 mag. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Exactly!!!! The AK47 mag is a perfect example. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:05:16 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm talking about combat reliability, not range reliability. Reports from Iraq is that they are bulging and splitting when left loaded with 30 rounds. Take an M16 mag and drop it on it's feed lips and then do the same to a AK47 mag. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:09:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Not exactly true. When putting together a solicitation, a decision is made about how to evaluate sources. Past performance is one option. Cost is another. IIRC, experience with that type of product can also be considered. The important thing is, these have to be put in the solicitation. You can't wait until you have bids to evaluate and then try to pick your criteria.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:13:18 PM EDT
[#15]
You've obviously never stomped on an AK mag or driven a nail with one. If I had any AK mags left I'd do it and post pics of it. othing wrong with GI spec M16 mags. i stepped on two empty D&H mags this weekend, loaded them back up and they both functioned flawlessly. Reliable enough for me. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 1:17:51 PM EDT
[#16]
One thing to remember now, the Govt does NOT have to accept the lowest bidder anymore for Contracts. The Govt can now grant contracts to the bidder who gives the best bang for the buck. Rumsfeld pushed to scrap the old busted method for granting contracts. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:35:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Why is the AR-15 magazine the standard rifle magazine for the civilized world if is is such a POS? Lets see how many other rifles use it L85 (UK) Latter FAMAS (France) Latter AUGS (Austria, Luxemborg, Austrailia, Ireland) Daewoo K1/K2 (South Korea) FNC can accept it, although it uses its own mag (Sweden, Indonesia) FN 2000 (Belguim) G36 with adaptor SC70 (Italy) Tavor |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 5:35:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Well, I am still using WW2 USGI 1911A1 mags which work perfectly fine with the ammo they were designed for. I had no idea they were so crappy. I will toss them out ASAP. NOT! Luger mags were pretty sad, my Sauer and Sohn 38h mags are not the most robust either. Your blanket statement is to encompassing. I have Nam era 20 rounder which still work fine. I do not use them for hammers tho. Steel pots work better for that BTW.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:00:48 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:02:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks for sharing what you think.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:06:38 PM EDT
[#21]
My M1 Carbine mags seem to work wonderfully, at least 5 were still in the original wrapper when I got them. In fact, I had an overpressure round blow out the bottom of one of them, and I just put it back together and it still works just fine.
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:12:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Taiwan too, though people here at ar15.com seem to favor the taiwanese steel mags too. I prefer the USGI stuff, it's light as all hell and durable enough for me |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:27:53 PM EDT
[#23]
I have mags that have been loaded since before we even went to Iraq, no bulging or splitting here. Your right about AK mags being more durable but does it need to be able to get run over by a truck? If this is an issue for you you should probably take better care of your equipment (like not leaving mags under trucks). |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:46:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Magazines with a continuous curve allow for a much more robust, impossible to tilt follower.
New, clean USGI mags work great. I'll wager that continous curve AK mags will fuction far better with debris in them, due to the follower design. older USGI magazine followers nosedived ocassionally, until green followers were designed to try and fix the problem.  I believe HK has yet another follower design, and I brought some tan colored ones from Magpul several years ago, pictured below, which are a recent attempt to improve on the green follower.  Note in the 3rd picture below, the kind of follower that can be used in a continuous curve magazine. No frigging way you can push the front forward and not have the entire follower move in perfect alignment. This makes for very robust feeding. Also included a pic of an M-14 20 round mag follower in this pic.  In summation- my main beef is with the crooked design of the USGI mag, in order to accomodate the longer magwell of the AR. This design will not accomodate a follower as reliable as a continuous curve magazine can. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 7:49:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Two words - lowest bidder
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Posted: 9/20/2005 3:26:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Below is a assessment report describing the shortcomings of weapon systems being used in Iraq.
PROJECT MANAGER SOLDIER WEAPONS SOLDIER WEAPONS ASSESSMENT TEAM REPORT 6-03 OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM 31 July 2003 Link Section I. a. M16 Series of Assault Issue #1: Magazines Discussion: The majority of the issues experienced with the M16 series rifles in theatre were attributable to the magazines. Most problems reported occurred from loading the M16 series magazine with 30 rounds. One problem was that the magazine is difficult to seat in the weapon with the bolt closed and the magazine tends to spread apart at the top, increasing the difficulty with insertion. Most soldiers relieved these problems by loading less than 30 rounds. One soldier recommended 25 rounds to ease the math associated with ammunition status. No one complained about the reduced capacity. Recommendations: In the short term, advise the AOR to fill magazines with a maximum of 28 rounds and provide units with magazines issued with RFI. In the long term, the quality and the design of the M16 series magazine must undergo review. Combat Developers should consider whether 30 rounds per magazine are operationally required. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 5:49:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Simple solution... insert the fully loaded 30 round mag with the bolt open, then chamber the top round.
Problem solved. Duh! |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 5:59:23 AM EDT
[#28]
You don't want to run your gun dry. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 6:21:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Sure you do, in most cases it makes sence, you don't tac load when threats are still presant. |
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Posted: 9/20/2005 6:32:44 AM EDT
[#30]
I've got a WWI issue magazine that I use in my M1911A1...I think it's probably my most reliable magazine.
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Posted: 9/20/2005 6:37:02 AM EDT
[#31]
  and ak mags ares steal, the weigh 2x to 3x over a ar mag, pluse the rust.. no thanks.. just make a 30 round light weight mag that can feed 30 well. |
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