I wonder what the legal penalty for assaulting a Senior Citizen and defacing their flag will be
for someone in this country illegally.........probably the same as usual.........nothing

Clash halts border watch
By Jannise Johnson, Staff Writer  
9/19/2005
www2.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3041539
A clash with a group of protesters in San Diego caused the leader of a volunteer border patrol group to temporarily halt activity Saturday.
Andy Ramirez, a Chino resident and chairman of Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch, said an opposition group confronted members of his organization in San Diego on Saturday afternoon.

Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch is one of several recently organized civilian patrol groups whose members are dissatisfied with the federal government's handling of illegal immigration.

Ramirez said members of Gente Unida, a San Diego-based group, confronted Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch volunteers who were in the area for a training session.

He also said the altercation was caught on tape.

According to Ramirez, members of Gente Unida shouted obscenities, stomped and kicked an American flag, and physically assaulted some of Ramirez's older volunteers.

Gente Unida claims to be a group that believes in peaceful, nonviolent action, Ramirez said. But "there wasn't anything peaceful about shoving a bunch of senior citizens around," Ramirez said during a telephone interview from his home Sunday afternoon.

Enrique Morones, president and founder of Border Angels, one of 65 groups within Gente Unida, denies the claims by Ramirez. But, he said, his group was protesting volunteer patrols in Calexico when the San Diego clash occurred.

"We're not a violent group," he said by phone Sunday evening. "We're autonomous, and we're against the racist vigilantes."

Ramirez said Friends of the Border Patrol volunteers will be out of circulation only for a few days while they figure out what legal action to take against Gente Unida.

"We do plan on giving a copy of this tape," to the San Diego Police Department, he said. "We're taking this through the appropriate channels."

Ramirez said his group has been on patrol at the California-Mexico border since June.

Here was a previous report of the same event

Minuteman-Style Border Patrol Is Over in No Time
Organizers call off the event after a scuffle with protesters and a lower turnout than expected. Counterdemonstrators declare victory.
September 18, 2005
By Anna Gorman and Richard Marosi, Times Staff Writers
www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-minutemen18sep18,1,136974.story?coll=la-headlines-california&ctrack=1&cset=true

SAN DIEGO — After touting their plans for months, organizers called off their Minuteman-style patrol of the California-Mexico border this weekend after a minor scuffle with counterdemonstrators and a far lower turnout than expected.

Friends of the Border Patrol, a Chino-based group, had said that hundreds of volunteers, some armed, would patrol the border along a 100-mile stretch from the coast to Imperial County, modeling their effort in part after April's Minuteman Project in Arizona.
 
Their intention, they said, was to monitor — not apprehend — illegal immigrants and report their presence to the U.S. Border Patrol.

But on Saturday, organizer Andy Ramirez called it off, citing a fear of violence.

He said about 40 volunteers had showed up and, of them, 20 had registered for training at a nearby hotel.

"I can't send them out if somebody is going to try to harm them," Ramirez said.

Pushing and shoving broke out early Saturday after about 20 counterdemonstrators marched into the Scottish Rites Center in San Diego, where Border Watch volunteers had come to register for training, according to witnesses and police. One counterdemonstrator was cited for battery after he allegedly knocked down someone unaffiliated with either group.

Declaring victory, hundreds of counterdemonstrators Saturday evening marched through the streets of Calexico, Calif., with some saying citizen patrols were losing momentum and that they had chased out the few would-be patrollers who bothered to show up.

"It's a disaster," said Enrique Morones, president of the Border Angels, one of the immigrant rights groups that participated in the counter-protest. "The novelty of the minutemen has worn off."

Morones said the low turnout reflected poor organization and the fact that people aren't willing to volunteer for a group of "racist vigilantes."

But Ramirez said the patrollers may regroup and try again next weekend.

The gathering began Friday, when Ramirez and eight others held a news conference at the rusted border fence across from Tijuana.

Even then, they were drowned out by a mariachi band and about 30 jeering counterdemonstrators waving Mexican flags and chanting in Spanish for the "caza migrantes" — migrant hunters — to go home.

The effort was the third in California in the past three months that failed to draw a significant number of volunteers. In Arizona, by contrast, organizers hailed the Minuteman Project as a success because the turnout was greater, media coverage was heavy and illegal crossings, according to the Border Patrol, dropped.

Minuteman-like groups are pressuring federal lawmakers to change immigration laws and bolster enforcement along the border. Border Watch had planned to send the volunteers, including former police officers and Border Patrol agents, to homes and ranches near the border, where they would call the Border Patrol if they spotted border crossers.

"This issue of border security has grown into a national emergency," said Ramirez, who calls his group the "ultimate Neighborhood Watch."

Arizona is the main corridor for illegal immigration into the U.S.; hundreds of thousands are apprehended annually. Illegal activity along California's border has declined significantly in recent years.

Still, the illegal border traffic rankles many on the U.S. side, especially those living in the rugged backcountry east of San Diego.

Donna and Ed Tisdale, who live on a 400-acre ranch about a mile from the border, said they had planned to let Friends of the Border Patrol use their home as an observation post. Illegal migrants and drug smugglers cross their ranch regularly, and the U.S. Border Patrol doesn't have enough agents to stop the flow, said Donna Tisdale.

"This is organized crime at work in our neighborhood. We're desperate for help," she said, adding that the volunteer group would have provided more "eyes and ears in the area."

Tim Whitney, 50, a Chula Vista construction worker who attended the training session, said he was disappointed with the low turnout. "I was hoping for something more, for more Americans."

This isn't a repeat of the Baldwin Park episode, is it???

If they were assaulting defenseless Citizens..........yes

The problem is that the citizens of Kalifornistan are not permitted to arm themselves.  The BGs are well aware of this, so when there aren't any lawmen around why not beat up the old dudes...they can't fight back.

Come on out here and try that shit with me sonny...and we'll see who gets OWNED!

.

Quoted: The problem is that the citizens of Kalifornistan are not permitted to arm themselves.  The BGs are well aware of this, so when there aren't any lawmen around why not beat up the old dudes...they can't fight back. Come on out here and try that shit with me sonny...and we'll see who gets OWNED!

Its worse than that, I don't know about the other groups
but, if you are in the Minutemen you are absolutely NOT allowed
to respond to any provocation by the illegals or the illegal supporters
That includes assault, threats and the multiple other actions that are
being used by the illegals.........who have nothing to fear from authorities

One of the Citizen border watch groups has found it neccessary to avoid the publicity to avoid the violence of the illegals
WHERE ARE THE POLICE WHEN THE CITIZENS ARE BEING ASSAULTED?

Border Watch Group To Go Underground After Heavy Opposition
09-19-05
www.kfmb.com/stories/story.23735.html
The organizer of an anti-illegal immigration group that has attempted to launch a border-watch effort over the weekend said he may take his operation underground, it was reported today.

Andy Ramirez, organizer of Friends of the Border Patrol, told the San Diego Union-Tribune that he was worried about his and participants' safety after a run-in with protestors during a training session Saturday.

"We're not scared," Ramirez told the newspaper. "If it means that we put our people out there quietly, then that's how we do it."

Ramirez says his plans to stage civilian border patrols have not been canceled despite the low turn out of only 25 participants at the training session at the Mission Valley Resort Hotel.

Some participants have told the Union-Tribune other prospective participants were scared away after a confrontation with a small crowd of protestors at the Scottish Rite center, where sign-ups were held Saturday morning.

Both sides accused the other of shoving, and one protestor was cited.

For the last few months, Ramirez has promoted his plans to stand up to immigrant smugglers and drug runners my monitoring the border with Mexico in San Diego and Imperial counties.

Last week, Ramirez told the Union-Tribune he had trained 125 people, and that 30 to 40 had conducted secret patrols this summer.

Yesterday, he said there was just a skeleton crew guarding private property where they had planned to stage patrols.

I got this in an email last night.

Public Alert by FBP... Please alert your volunteers, supporters, and mailing lists. Unarmed volunteers attacked and terrorized in San Diego, US Flag desecrated By Andy Ramirez, FBP Chairman September 18, 2005 Dear Fellow Americans, It is with a heavy heart today that I write and ask for your support. Yesterday, September 17, 2005, a few of our unarmed volunteer citizens of Friends of the Border Patrol were attacked by the so-called peaceful humanitarians of Gente Unida [Enrique Morones' goons] in San Diego, California, as they were meeting at a gathering point for an orientation and training session. As many people know, our organization has spent many months training volunteers, including sector leaders, and last month, rank and file volunteers. Though we have been operational for some time, we officially launched on September 16th. We must emphasize that the choice of September 16, which is Mexican Independence Day was not a slap against Mexican citizens. However, can it really be a day of independence for the people of Mexico? Yes, they should celebrate their independence from a colonial power. However, they are less independent today then at any point in their history. Just consider the ever-growing poverty, and increasing violence along the borders, which clearly are controlled by the smugglers of humans and narcotics. FBP wants the smugglers put out of business. With that in mind, we have been training our volunteers and engaging in tactics that have minimized opportunities for conflict. We have utilized private properties going back to June of this year, in order to lower the dangers that our volunteers may be confronted by. In doing so, we also chose to be unarmed while along the borders so as to present an operation that was based in all ways on the community-based neighborhood watch program. We have coordinated every public appearance with law enforcement agencies. However, I must personally apologize to my volunteers, and take responsibility for what took place in San Diego. I have spent so much time trying to respond to the responsibilities I have had as the launch neared, that I did not set that extra time aside to notify the law enforcement agencies, which would have prevented our volunteers from being assaulted. This includes a few senior citizens, and people who have served our nation through prior service in our armed services. For this, I apologize to each of our volunteers who were personally assaulted, especially the Captain, whom is a man that everyone in my organization respects immensely, and cares about. No veteran of the US Armed Services should ever have to be confronted by what several cowards did to our fellow citizen and friend. I also apologize to the San Diego PD for not having properly notified them of particular location. I hope everyone knows how much respect I have for law enforcement. It is truly a great burden I hold for what happened today. A leader has to always consider these things for this is how certain segments of the public behave. However, as a leader, the buck stops here. Here's what happened. The Captain instructed our volunteers where to meet up and was almost immediately confronted by an angry mob. An American flag was immediately desecrated by being torn away from our volunteers, off its pole, and onto the ground where it was stomped on and kicked. This vile act was committed by an individual who had concealed his face from cameras. We do have video footage, which was released by the volunteer to the media and shown in San Diego on their television newscasts. Individuals on tape were also assaulting and battering a number of senior citizens. Here's something to consider. These young people assaulted our volunteers, many of whom have served our nation in the military with distinction, which includes senior citizens. To show the footage, which we'll post asap on our website, will absolutely leave you speechless, and angry. The protesters stalked our volunteers around the site, screamed in their ears, were cursed at, physically assaulted and battered, trespassed on private property, and participated in crimes of hate and acts of terrorism. Again, we will post the tape as soon as possible. However for now, we ask for your help, assistance, and prayers for our volunteers' safety. We have spent several days under siege, and we need your help. Won't you help us put an end to this national emergency at the border? We need you to contact Congress and let them know we need our borders secured, so that unarmed American (senior) citizens do not have to do the job that our government refuses to allow. We need your help to put the smugglers of humans and narcotics out of business. We would like to provide legal aid for our volunteers that were assaulted. Won't you help us provide legal assistance so that those brave volunteers can take these domestic terrorists to court and sue them and their sponsoring organizations? It will take your donation, which may soon be written off on your taxes as we have applied for our non-profit status, to help provide the assistance of an attorney, who can represent people who are victimized by these domestic terrorists. We need your help, so we can assure our volunteers that they will have an attorney that will defend their rights in court. The opposition can post on their website, that the Minuteman training was disrupted. However, that was a lie and the media will attest to the fact that we still had several volunteers who were able to train. With your help and support, we'll train many more and together we shall not back down from the supporters of illegal immigration, smuggling, terrorists, murder, and other vile lies. Most important, thank God that none of our volunteers were injured. Join FBP today and stop the smugglers, secure our borders, and support the US Border Patrol, and our fellow US citizens living along America's borders. God Bless America. Andy Ramirez, Chairman Friends of the Border Patrol Andrew M. 'Andy' Ramirez, Chairman Friends of the Border Patrol P.O. Box 2685, Covina, CA 91722 Office#: (909) 613-9211 Website: FriendsOfTheBorderPatrol.com FBP Border Watch - The Ultimate Neighborhood Watch

Quoted: Come on out here and try that shit with me sonny...and we'll see who gets OWNED!

We could save them the fuel, and you the expenditure of energy...by having them stop in Texas first.

THAT SHIT WILL NOT FLY HERE IN TEXAS.

Quoted: I wonder what the legal penalty for assaulting a Senior Citizen and defacing their flag will be for someone in this country illegally.........probably the same as usual.........nothing Clash halts border watch By Jannise Johnson, Staff Writer   9/19/2005 www2.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_3041539 A clash with a group of protesters in San Diego caused the leader of a volunteer border patrol group to temporarily halt activity Saturday. Andy Ramirez, a Chino resident and chairman of Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch, said an opposition group confronted members of his organization in San Diego on Saturday afternoon. Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch is one of several recently organized civilian patrol groups whose members are dissatisfied with the federal government's handling of illegal immigration. Ramirez said members of Gente Unida, a San Diego-based group, confronted Friends of the Border Patrol Border Watch volunteers who were in the area for a training session. He also said the altercation was caught on tape. According to Ramirez, members of Gente Unida shouted obscenities, stomped and kicked an American flag, and physically assaulted some of Ramirez's older volunteers. Gente Unida claims to be a group that believes in peaceful, nonviolent action, Ramirez said. But "there wasn't anything peaceful about shoving a bunch of senior citizens around," Ramirez said during a telephone interview from his home Sunday afternoon. Enrique Morones, president and founder of Border Angels, one of 65 groups within Gente Unida, denies the claims by Ramirez. But, he said, his group was protesting volunteer patrols in Calexico when the San Diego clash occurred. "We're not a violent group," he said by phone Sunday evening. "We're autonomous, and we're against the racist vigilantes." Ramirez said Friends of the Border Patrol volunteers will be out of circulation only for a few days while they figure out what legal action to take against Gente Unida. "We do plan on giving a copy of this tape," to the San Diego Police Department, he said. "We're taking this through the appropriate channels." Ramirez said his group has been on patrol at the California-Mexico border since June.

you know I wouldn't mind betting that Andy Ramirez is Hispanic. so does this make him a self-loathing Hispanic or what? how can he be acting racist when he's presumably the same race as the illegals?

I know, the border watchers can HIRE off duty cops to protect them

.Gov is gonna fiddle-fuck around with this, and a 'border watcher' is gonna get killed.

Then all the 'border watchers' will be forbidden to monitor the borders.

Just watch.

I think a border watcher is going to get hurt and all the "overzealous" people
that the illegals, aclu, bush, dems, lulac, airamericaradio and aztlan supporters
claim are ALREADY border watchers will actually show up......and there will be problems

www.friendsoftheborderpatrol.com/site/ California-- There has been a lot of speculation over the past day about what our organization was going to do due to the attack by lawless terrorists on September 17th. There has also been an incredible level of support from our fellow American citizens. However, there has also been some idiotic comments over at a certain website that I have long denounced for patent stupidity, and providing fodder that long ago should have been better moderated. We have taken a time out to re-assess the situation, but are going to Fight On! Let me address a couple things before I continue. One thing that really offended me on Saturday was when I said that the situation was too hot for those property owners, a few scribes didn't respect my concern for safety. Since my mind was on what had taken place, having seen partial clips at the time, I was more concerned with our volunteers well-being then the field operation. I was deeply offended by one particular reporter who insinuated I was using the publicity to run for office, and was quite insensitive to what took place and happened to our volunteers. This scribe actually said, and I am paraphrasing... come on Andy, it wasn't that bad. That's what happens at a protest. I'll tell you this, for that insensitivity and lack of concern, that reporter will not be going out to any of our properties. But then again, it wouldn't be the first time that I've been offended by the publication that we nicknamed the Soviet Union-Tribune. I want to thank my operations team for making the decision to delay deployment, while I was concerned about what had taken place. Thank you to one particular print scribe, and those tv stations for your kind words and concern for our volunteers. Thank you to an SD station I did an in-studio interview with for allowing me to review the tape at your station. The concern and compassion I was shown was greatly appreciated. Here's where we stand. We have not cancelled our FBP Border Watch. We did not tuck tail and hide. We did not shut anything down, or scam anyone. We did not run away in the face of those cowardly terrorist thugs. We took a pause to assess what happened, to begin looking into the appropriate legal response, and to confer with our leaders of the secure borders movement. In fact, we are going to fight on. As if those bloody cowardly terrorists were going to shut us down. Hell will freeze over before that happens. We will announce at a time later this week, specifically what and when as soon as a few logistics can be properly arranged. To the thugs over at Gente Unida, and Indymedia... think you won? Think again. We're Americans and all you did was just show our nation what cowards and terrorists you truly are. I can't stress it enough, hell will freeze over before we cower down to you criminals. In fact, we've just begun to fight! Let's see those cowardly terrorists take on a few US Marines and see who wins that contest. No, we didn't panic and quit. We didn't rush out with guns in hand making a situation worse. We certainly didn't panic. We called time out, reviewed the opposition and are ready to resume play. The terrorists don't control the play and tempo, we do. The fact remains that we dicate the flow and tempo of this match and are in this war for the long haul. Thank you all again, and God Bless America, Andy Ramirez, Chairman Friends of the Border Patrol

Should've shot at the illegals.

Quoted: Should've shot at the illegals.

Yeah. THAT will help the cause.

If the border advocates want to make a point and illustrate their motives, being non-violent is the proper way to do it.

Let the other side look like the goons that they are.

Quoted: Quoted: Come on out here and try that shit with me sonny...and we'll see who gets OWNED! We could save them the fuel, and you the expenditure of energy...by having them stop in Texas first. THAT SHIT WILL NOT FLY HERE IN TEXAS.

didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested?

Quoted: didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested?

I don't know.

Ranch Rescue worked here for a bit, and everyone knows how that worked out...

Quoted: didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested?

Most of the border in Texas is private land, so it would be more difficult for militia groups to patrol or monitor the border than in Arizona or New Mexico.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Come on out here and try that shit with me sonny...and we'll see who gets OWNED! We could save them the fuel, and you the expenditure of energy...by having them stop in Texas first. THAT SHIT WILL NOT FLY HERE IN TEXAS. didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested?

actually I believe they have texas operations planed for october ,,

one of the radio hosts here is going down for a week ..

www.570klif.com

I really believe that groups like Border Angels and Gente Unida should be dealt with more severely. I don't believe in trying to maintain the "higher moral ground" over adversaries. That's what the French did in WWII. We need to get thugs out there beating down those groups of illegals. The hammers should be hitting the high nails.

The fact that they feel like they can assault US citizens supporting the laws of the land speaks volumes. It is as if they have already won the invasion and have infiltrated our institutions that should be meting out justice.

Quoted: Quoted: didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested? Most of the border in Texas is private land, so it would be more difficult for militia groups to patrol or monitor the border than in Arizona or New Mexico.

Wouldn't it be easier, because the illegal aliens and their supporters cannot harrass
the "militia groups" on property that the landowners have given permission to set up camp
because they are desperate for any help they can get due to the criminal negligence of the .gov?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested? Most of the border in Texas is private land, so it would be more difficult for militia groups to patrol or monitor the border than in Arizona or New Mexico. Wouldn't it be easier, because the illegal aliens and their supporters cannot harrass the "militia groups" on property that the landowners have given permission to set up camp because they are desperate for any help they can get due to the criminal negligence of the .gov?

Should be much easier because if one group has the property owners permission to be there and the other doesn't, makes it real easy for the uninvited interlopers to be arrested for tresspassing or other offenses.

Don't we always have Texans on here telling us about how legal it is to shoot folks on your property after dark if involved in nefarious activities?

It's time to start shooting back.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: didn't border watch try to start a group in texas but no one was interested? Most of the border in Texas is private land, so it would be more difficult for militia groups to patrol or monitor the border than in Arizona or New Mexico. Wouldn't it be easier, because the illegal aliens and their supporters cannot harrass the "militia groups" on property that the landowners have given permission to set up camp because they are desperate for any help they can get due to the criminal negligence of the .gov? Should be much easier because if one group has the property owners permission to be there and the other doesn't, makes it real easy for the uninvited interlopers to be arrested for tresspassing or other offenses. Don't we always have Texans on here telling us about how legal it is to shoot folks on your property after dark if involved in nefarious activities?

I have only seen people from other states commenting on that
theoretically, at night, it is legal to shoot someone in the back if they are escaping YOUR
property while in the act of stealing YOUR possessions.......or in self-defense anytime

In reality, our da recently announced that even though the legislature passed a law
allowing concealed carry in ANY law abiding citizens vehicle.......he would still insist on their arrest