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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:36:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Last night on the news I saw protesters at their "base of operations" donning home made riot-body armor. Just in case of altercations with the police. I thought that if you protested peacfully then you shouldnt need body armor. just my .02
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Posted: 7/20/2001 9:00:09 AM EDT
[#2]
I saw a great story on 60 Minutes last year. One of the reporters was interviewing a group of vegan anarchist that had prostested in Seatle. By defenition this group is opposed to any form of government. How long do you think that group would last if there was no one, no state local or federal government, around to prevent some less friendly group from having their way with them? Bear in mind the largest member of this vegan clan probably only weighted 110 lbs.
I am not a supporter of a incredible large controlling government, but we need some basic minimums to remain civilized. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#3]
Don't believe these anarchy now types aren't organized: check out this link [url]www.ruckus.org[/url]
It's a training camp for "non-violent" protesters. The only problem is that, like the famous "School of the Americas," the school doesn't have any control over the actions of the students once they leave the school with their new knowledge. FMCDH Semper Fidelis Jarhead out. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 9:32:58 AM EDT
[#4]
People, you better recognize these protestors, you better see what works for them, you better learn their methods, thats going to be us in 10 years. Maybe sooner.
It won't start as a shooting war fellas, we are going to try to get our point across the same way these people are. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 9:59:14 AM EDT
[#5]
most of the so called Anarchists dont even know what anarchy means they think anarchy is just a excuse to blow up sh*t and be general a holes
anarchy is a total system of TRUE self goverment. in theory it sounds great but people being the morons some of them tend to be cant handle that kind of responsiblity thats why TRUE anarchy isnt possible |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:01:39 AM EDT
[#6]
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20010720/mdf26681.jpg[/img] GENOA (Reuters) - A protester died after being shot in the head on Friday by an Italian paramilitary trooper while a big power summit was under way in Genoa, witnesses and authorities said. A Reuters photographer saw a group of anti-globalization demonstrators attack a Carabinieri van with stones. A protester was hit by two gunshots from the van after throwing a fire extinguisher at the vehicle. The demonstrator fell to the ground and then was run over by a Carabinieri jeep that backed over him, the photographer said. The man, dressed in a white tee shirt, blue jeans and a black balaclava, lay in the street, blood pouring from his head. A police spokesman in Genoa confirmed that the unidentified man had died but did not provide any details. A medic who had been following thousands of protesters rampaging through Genoa during the day said the demonstrator was shot twice in Piazza Alimonda, about 1.2 miles from the Renaissance palace where Group of Eight leaders were meeting. ``He was hit twice, once in the forehead and once on the left cheek,'' Valeria Valerio, a medic with the anti-globalization Genoa Social Forum, told Reuters. ``He had blood pouring from his mouth.'' The body lay in the square, a white sheet over it and surrounded by police. Something to be said for non-lethal rounds. Two head taps in response for thrown fire extinguisher doesn't seem quite right. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:31:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By DVD Tracker: Something to be said for non-lethal rounds. Two head taps in response for thrown fire extinguisher doesn't seem quite right. except that if the thrown extinguisher had hit some one it could have killed them. its a heavy object with force behind it. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:32:00 AM EDT
[#8]
The long and short of it....Throw a fire exstinguisher at ME and see if I only shoot you twice.
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:41:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Yep, you can quite clearly see tyre tracks across his t-shirt.
Boy those Carabineri get really get pissed... This puzzles me too. Gun control is part of the globalist agenda, yet I dont like the people who are out there rioting and protesting against them. I cant decide, which if any to support. I cant even feel sorry for this kid, best I can muster is "what a stupid waste, idiot". For some reason this feels like a suicide, not a homocide... |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:48:10 AM EDT
[#10]
hey if someone attacked me with a fire extingusher id shoot him to. and i would be justified (assualt with a deadly weopon
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Posted: 7/20/2001 11:15:09 AM EDT
[#11]
This is gonna be US? I don't think so. I ain't about to leave my den/warren/foxhole/cabin in the event of this kind of civil unrest!
This is what the [b]non-gunowners[/b] are going to be doing ([u]if[/u] they do anything at all). The powers that be can come do a Waco number on me and several thousand more just like me. Who knows, maybe we're here to buy you youngsters a little time! I'm too old to be dragging my sh|t all over the damn creation! Don't wait for marching orders, just ride to the sound of the gunfire! Eric The(ListeningForTheLastTrump-HereOrThere)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 11:26:59 AM EDT
[#12]
GW cozing up to Tony (The 3rd Way 4th Reich) Blair called these guys
left wing anti-globalists...seems to me this was a good object lesson to all anti globalists.... DK-Prof if it was a shark laying there ...you would have been real upset no?:) |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 11:32:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: DK-Prof if it was a shark laying there ...you would have been real upset no?:) That's right - I would have been outraged! [:D] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 12:12:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Looks like another minimum wage job just opened up.
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Posted: 7/20/2001 12:16:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: hey if someone attacked me with a fire extingusher id shoot him to. and i would be justified (assualt with a deadly weopon According to the story, he threw the extinguisher at a van and was shot by someone in the van. How much cover did the van offer? How far away was this guy when he trew it? What sort of riot gear (if any) did the "Italian paramilitary troopers" have on? I might not have responded the same way in this situation. At a decent throwing range, an extinguisher should be fairly easy to avoid. If they're using a larger one and had to get up close to hit me with it (or a smaller one with more accuracy up close), then I'd definitely drop them if they didn't listen to orders to stop. I'm not trying to defend this guy, just trying to analyze the situation a bit more. That being said, there was likely a lot of other stuff going on that wasn't reported. What else was this guy doing? Molotov cocktails? Attacking cops or other civilians on the street? Who knows... He looks a bit scrawny to be throwing *anything* around. [:)] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 12:19:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: This is gonna be US? I don't think so. I ain't about to leave my den/warren/foxhole/cabin in the event of this kind of civil unrest! The powers that be can come do a Waco number on me and several thousand more just like me. Who knows, maybe we're here to buy you youngsters a little time! I'm too old to be dragging my sh|t all over the damn creation! Don't wait for marching orders, just ride to the sound of the gunfire! Eric The(ListeningForTheLastTrump-HereOrThere)Hun[>]:)] Just a little suggestion: defending ground is a baaaaad idea. You are too valuable to be roasted alive. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 12:38:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Italy has at least a dozen different varieties of LEOs it seems.
The Carabineri are almost a military force. They ride around in squads with automatic rifles and military-type uniforms. Closest comparison here is the military police. Not exactly the types who have been trained for dealing with rioting civilians. I wouldn't have pushed them. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 12:43:42 PM EDT
[#18]
NPR just reported that he was trying to break the window of the van when someone inside shot him. Sounds like it may have been justified.
Hielo, I am not sure I would hold these guys up as an example of how supporters of the second amendment should oppose the anti-gun crowd. A lot of people consider them to be extremist freaks and they don't seem to be gathering the support of the general public. I think the best thing that gun owners can do is just be responsible gun owners and try to get others interested in shooting sports. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 1:10:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Amidst the black and red flag waving idiots exists a group of people concerned with the effects of globalization. This is the salient issue, although it seems to get lost as the media tends to focus solely on the flag waving idiots. But you have to ask yourself: how will globalization affect my life? The UN and one-world types are, of course, for globalization as it increases their power base. The multinational corporations want it because it would set up a system if international law as to how they do business. For instance, they desire the ability to conduct business under one set of environmental rules. No longer would they have to abide by the host nation’s laws. If the international law states it’s okay to emit 100 ppm. of dioxin into the local river, than that rule applies to all nations in which the multinational has plants. They also desire a common set of labor laws. The ability to operate under one set of rules no matter where the plant is located would for the most part, make your local union obsolete. I’m not a union man, never have been, but I do see the need for them. They would argue that the ability to trade freely, without barriers of any kind, is a proven method for bringing rogue nations into the international community. They tout this policy of “engagement” as being the correct thing to do. It’s obviously worked quite well with China, right? In any case, the bottom line is they want the ability to treat employees as commodities and the right to enter the market of their choice free of trade barriers. Now ask yourself: how does this make your life better?
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Posted: 7/20/2001 1:14:36 PM EDT
[#20]
How does globalization make my life better?
1) Cheaper goods 2) better, cheaper transportation and communication anywhere in the world 3) More jobs, growing economy |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 2:13:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Hielo , You are right on target with your comment. I also think that before this "gun control" issue is settled we will be in the streets. Like all movements, we will start with protest much like what we are seeing in response to this so called "new world order". To those that think it will bring more to us (jobs , cheaper products ,etc.) , do not be surprised when the standard of living in the USA is much the same as Mexico , Vietnam , etc, etc. It will take many years for this to happen but if we keep shipping both our jobs and our tech overseas it is only a matter of time. We are living today in the "best of times" that this country will EVER see if we do not wake up!!!
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Posted: 7/20/2001 2:15:16 PM EDT
[#22]
why are "anarchists" against free trade? if there is no government, then how could you impose rules on free trade?
maybe i'm weird, but in the picture of the protestor it looks like a blood painted AK-74 to the left of him. okay i'm weird. anarchy as a verb, or anarchy as a noun |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 2:29:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Another pic of the dead guy from an idependent Italian news website.
[img]italy.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/72887a_b.jpg[/img] "I found this photo that clearly shows that the young man today was shot between the eyes. Look at the entry wound about 5 cm above the nose. That is a sharp shot to come from a carabinieri who says that it was self defense." There are unconfirmed reports that the remainder of the summit has been cancelled as the protesters have broken through the police lines and are attempting to storm the building. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 2:40:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: To those that think it will bring more to us (jobs , cheaper products ,etc.) , do not be surprised when the standard of living in the USA is much the same as Mexico , Vietnam , etc, etc. It will take many years for this to happen but if we keep shipping both our jobs and our tech overseas it is only a matter of time. We are living today in the "best of times" that this country will EVER see if we do not wake up!!! I would bet everything I own that you are wrong. I feel really strongly about free trade and open markets. I would be 100% for open immigration too, if we could get said immigrants and other minorities to agree to do away with welfare programs, affirmative action, the culture of victimization, and racial politics. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 2:57:27 PM EDT
[#25]
It's interesting to speculate on why the anarchists get the people out for their protests. For the most part I think it's just because rioting is fun. you get to act like an assh0le, throw stuff, and maybe bust a few heads. It's a soccer riot with a thin veneer of politics. Take away the rioting and they'd probably get the usual turnout of two dozen faithful followers.
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Posted: 7/20/2001 3:05:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Here is a picture of the incident, you can clearly see the Carabieneri training him from the vehicle with his Beretta, no video though one can´t tell if he shot him or was he caught under the vehicle when it reversed.
[img]http://images.indymedia.org/imc/italy/sequence.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#27]
I agree with the Prof!
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Posted: 7/20/2001 3:10:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Post by the beekeeper1 -
Just a little suggestion: defending ground is a baaaaad idea. You are too valuable to be roasted alive. I know you're right (Remember the Alamo?), but if there's enough of me-types, you calvary guys should be able to get around behind 'em. Right? Besides which I'll be on property that's been in the Hun Family since 1885. I grew up there, I'm not about to let a bunch of cityslickers get the drop on me, too easily. No neighbors for 10 miles or so, one road leads in, but several unmarked roads lead out [b]if[/b] you know where they are. Eric The(I'll'Sell'MyRealEstateRealExpensively)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 3:11:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes, IF you can´t take the heat, GET THE F*** OUT OF THE KITCHEN.
Should have stayed home. People have the right to protest and march but when it changes into senseless violence from them, F*** you and the horse you rode in. Don´t go lugging bricks and other stuff around, might end up like this fella here. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 3:29:13 PM EDT
[#30]
A few thoughts here in no paticular order.
1) The vehicle alrady has at least two of it's windows broken out. That makes me think that it's already been assualted. 2) Who says they could tell it was really a fire extingusher? Coudl just as easily of been something that burns or goes boom. 3) The officer that took the shots, obviously wasn't trained by the Seattle PD or he would have needed 100 rounds to get 2 hits. 4) The protester took his life into his own hands when he chose to mess with heavily armed people in that type of situation. Hopefully he went into it thinking that he might be killed and it was worth it to him. 5) Makes a little teargas, pepper spray, and the occasional kick to the groin by the PD in Seattle during the WTO protests look pretty damn tame doesn't it? First we shoot you twice in the head and then we drive over you. 6) Beltfed weapons are great for dispersing riots. Anyone have an MG42 handy? 1200 rounds per minute of 8mm sure convinces rioters that they have someplace better to be. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 4:55:01 PM EDT
[#31]
After seeing the sequence photos, I'd agree that it was self defense. Think Phil got it right - with all the rioting going on, they had no idea what this guy was about to throw into the vehicle.
As far as backing over the guy, look where the vehicle is - stuck up against a wall. My guess is that when the driver heard the shots, he rammed it into reverse (or he was already going to do that) and took off. Probably wouldn't have even noticed the guy behind them with everything going on. Some non-lethal rounds and a little more discretion might have kept it from escalating to this point though. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 5:58:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By DVD Tracker: After seeing the sequence photos, I'd agree that it was self defense. Think Phil got it right - with all the rioting going on, they had no idea what this guy was about to throw into the vehicle. As far as backing over the guy, look where the vehicle is - stuck up against a wall. My guess is that when the driver heard the shots, he rammed it into reverse (or he was already going to do that) and took off. Probably wouldn't have even noticed the guy behind them with everything going on. Some non-lethal rounds and a little more discretion might have kept it from escalating to this point though. In that sequence of pictures, the vehicle appears to be under attack from at least two directions with a wall in front of them. All three of the punks deserved to be taken out. I think violence should be met with twice the violence. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Nope, no sign that anyone has gotten close to where the G8 is being held.
They CANT get to where most of the leaders are staying, on a cruse ship in the middle of the harbor. All except GW who is staying at a hotel in town. Does he know something the others dont, or does he just not like them that much? |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 6:32:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Quoted: I don't know if it's because I'm getting old and grouchy or if it's because I'm right - but I just can't feel bad for a protester who was killed in rioting in Genoa at the G8 summit. Demonstrating is fine, and marching is a good thing - but when your only purpose in showing up is throwing petrol bombs and rocks at the police and destoying property, then you deserve what you get. You going to feel that way when they come to take our guns and kill us too? Protesting is a right in this country, It's what the US is all about, doesn't matter if you happen to agree with the reason. The constitution demands that we do the right thing. Remember the Bonus Marchers, remember Kent State, any difference from China and Tianamen(sp?) Square? (sorry about my spelling) Flame away, I can take it ;) |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 7:52:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Fire Extinguisher against Firearm? This guy was to stupid to live.
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Posted: 7/20/2001 7:57:52 PM EDT
[#36]
I think he's just saying to protest with ineffective and easily ignored means.
[url]www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hs/alamance/alamanc.htm[/url] |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:05:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: why are "anarchists" against free trade? if there is no government, then how could you impose rules on free trade? maybe i'm weird, but in the picture of the protestor it looks like a blood painted AK-74 to the left of him. okay i'm weird. anarchy as a verb, or anarchy as a noun Hey!, When I first saw the picture on the news of him lying there. I thought the blood looked like an AK too man. Thats just the first thing that came to mind. Maybe im just weird too man!?!?!? :)~ |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:07:04 PM EDT
[#38]
That doesn't look like a fire extinguisher to me.
AND.......look at the color of the shirt the guy is wearing lying on the ground vs. the color of the shirt the guy with the "fire extinguisher" is wearing. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:15:50 PM EDT
[#39]
I bet there is downloadable video of this somewhere on the internet already. I got some videos from the balkans and kosovo. This stuff might make some people vomit. I download it because im curious I guess. Like this one shows a chechnian solder(or terrorist)take a live prisoner blindfolded and pushes him on the ground, steps on his head and takes a knife and cuts his head clean off. Another one shows terrorists with a hostage making a ransom video. They cut the guys finger off and he doesnt even make a sound. Anybody got any videos like that or know where they can be found? Hope you guys dont think im sick or something. I figure its reality and Id rather know about it than be oblivious to it.
later |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:19:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Through a fire Extingushier at a COP car, be prepared to DIE!!!!
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:26:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Why the need to back up over him after he was already shot in the head.
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Posted: 7/20/2001 8:50:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Why the need to back up over him after he was already shot in the head. Look at that crowd- you think they were going to get out and move his dead ass with all those people there? Put yourself in their place for cryin out loud... |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:29:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Here would be a good place to point out that when similar protests happened in Seattle, no one got shot.
In the country that has more firearms in private hands than any other in the world. Nor did anything get blown up. Do ya think there just [i]might[/i] be a connection there? |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:43:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Here would be a good place to point out that when similar protests happened in Seattle, no one got shot. In the country that has more firearms in private hands than any other in the world. Nor did anything get blown up. Do ya think there just [i]might[/i] be a connection there? I think part of the difference is that when people in Europe (especially countries with big soccer traditions) riot, they're much more serious about it than in the U.S. I remember living in Europe after the Heysel soccer incident, where British soccer fans (Liverpool) essentially killed about 30 italian fans at a soccer game. When fights broke out in the stands at international games after that, British fans would start chanting "Heysel, Heysel" - hoping to repeat their feat. When people like that riot - and are actually organized instead of just drunk - that is a whole different ballgame that disaffected yuppies in Seattle who want to brag to their coffeehous friends that they threw a small rock at "the pigs" or broke a window of a McDonalds. |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 10:51:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Quoted: Here would be a good place to point out that when similar protests happened in Seattle, no one got shot. In the country that has more firearms in private hands than any other in the world. Nor did anything get blown up. Do ya think there just [i]might[/i] be a connection there? I think part of the difference is that when people in Europe (especially countries with big soccer traditions) riot, they're much more serious about it than in the U.S. I remember living in Europe after the Heysel soccer incident, where British soccer fans (Liverpool) essentially killed about 30 italian fans at a soccer game. When fights broke out in the stands at international games after that, British fans would start chanting "Heysel, Heysel" - hoping to repeat their feat. When people like that riot - and are actually organized instead of just drunk - that is a whole different ballgame that disaffected yuppies in Seattle who want to brag to their coffeehous friends that they threw a small rock at "the pigs" or broke a window of a McDonalds. Why is it that they will do such a thing and Americans wont? Is it because you can still legally shoot somebody over here if they tried that? So Americans know only to go "so far" just because in the back of their heads they remember that the people they are attacking just MIGHT be armed? |
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Posted: 7/20/2001 11:42:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Anyone else notice inconsistencies in the pics?
Fire extinguisher guy- white tank top and gray pants. Guy on the ground- black shirt over white shirt, dark blue pants. |
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Posted: 7/21/2001 12:11:10 AM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: Anyone else notice inconsistencies in the pics? Fire extinguisher guy- white tank top and gray pants. Guy on the ground- black shirt over white shirt, dark blue pants. In the sequence of pics he had a grey/black shirt around his waist that was moved to cover him up. You actually see the grey side of the shirt in the photo. He must have looked cold and they were just trying to warm him up. Those Foreigners are so damned considerate! |
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Posted: 7/21/2001 7:44:35 PM EDT
[#48]
I feel bad.
It didn't have to happen that way. That cop wasn't in a kill or be killed situation. If he felt he needed to shoot someone, why not shoot the guy with the wood 2x6. You can plainly see that, can't you? Also, you know the first thing I would do is pull my vehicle up against a concrete barrier. Now, without any means of escape, I must engage the protesters and even shoot one in the head. Good Job! Well done! Give that guy a promotion! |
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Posted: 7/21/2001 7:53:53 PM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By DVD Tracker: [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20010720/mdf26681.jpg[/img] I know it sounds grisley but am I the only one that sees the druganov rifle shape in the blood? Strange "ink blot" thing going on.... |
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Posted: 7/21/2001 8:01:42 PM EDT
[#50]
In the heat of the moment, the LEs in the jeep have no idea what the guy is throwing at them(fire exthinguisher). I would have thought it may have been some kind of propane bomb. And if it was, it would have taken them out completely. Nonlethal rounds (rubber or wood projectiles)at the range that the rioter got shot would have probably produced the same kind of results. The rioters have to realize that if you play with fire sooner or later you're going to get burned.
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