In a strange and obtuse way, I actually think this will help the cause of gun owners right in this country. This event has illustrated in a VERY graphic manner, the undisputed fact that law enforcment and the government can not, and will not, be there to protect the individual. It has reminded everybody that individuals are responsible for their own security and well being. Yes, there are those that look at this and bitch about the need for more government involvement, but in the backs of everybody's mind is the reality that no amount of government can save every individual every time.

Take a look at the panic buying of gasoline. What do you really think people are doing this for? Yes, there is a certain amount of nervousness about future prices, but its more about supply and making sure they can fend for themselves. Its about the need of the individual to secure their own supply so they can ride out whatever may come.

I was in the grocery store here in the suburbs of Washington DC and found the shevles bare in the water aisle. Why would there be panic buying of water in Northern VA right now? The clerk told me people were buying 4 and 5 cases at a time and they couldn't keep it in stock. The reason is because people are just more focused on securing thier own homes and futures right now. They are expressing their belief that government may not always be there to provide for them and they are taking steps to provide for themselves.

I know we have a short attention span in this country. All that stored water will come out of storage in a month or so and be consumed. The gas people are putting into 5 gallon cans will not get stabalizer added to it and there will be a rash of gummed up lawn mowers next spring. The urgency will fade.

However, the next time a gun control issue comes before the nation, the old lines will ring just a bit more hollow with a few more folks. The anti-gun cries of "why do you need a gun?" or "who needs an assault rifle" and "the National Guard is the Militia" will just seem silly to anybody who gave any thought at all to the role of government during this crisis.

Quoted: In a strange and obtuse way, I actually think this will help the cause of gun owners right in this country. This event has illustrated in a VERY graphic manner, the undisputed fact that law enforcment and the government can not, and will not, be there to protect the individual. It has reminded everybody that individuals are responsible for their own security and well being. Yes, there are those that look at this and bitch about the need for more government involvement, but in the backs of everybody's mind is the reality that no amount of government can save every individual every time. Take a look at the panic buying of gasoline. What do you really think people are doing this for? Yes, there is a certain amount of nervousness about future prices, but its more about supply and making sure they can fend for themselves. Its about the need of the individual to secure their own supply so they can ride out whatever may come. I was in the grocery store here in the suburbs of Washington DC and found the shevles bare in the water aisle. Why would there be panic buying of water in Northern VA right now? The clerk told me people were buying 4 and 5 cases at a time and they couldn't keep it in stock. The reason is because people are just more focused on securing thier own homes and futures right now. They are expressing their belief that government may not always be there to provide for them and they are taking steps to provide for themselves. I know we have a short attention span in this country. All that stored water will come out of storage in a month or so and be consumed. The gas people are putting into 5 gallon cans will not get stabalizer added to it and there will be a rash of gummed up lawn mowers next spring. The urgency will fade. However, the next time a gun control issue comes before the nation, the old lines will ring just a bit more hollow with a few more folks. The anti-gun cries of "why do you need a gun?" or "who needs an assault rifle" and "the National Guard is the Militia" will just seem silly to anybody who gave any thought at all to the role of government during this crisis.

You'll see a shitstorm from both sides on the issue.  Hopefully we prevail

nope.

liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings."

it's no use arguing with them.  

Quoted: nope. liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings." it's no use arguing with them.

I honestly don't think they can use that.  The only way they could is if there was a massive bill pending in congress that would ban all guns.  

That's kind of beside the point anyway.  Slowly, but surely, the American public needs to realize the reason for the Second Amendment.  Things like this remind them.  It may be subtle and it really isn't anything our side can point to, but any time the general populace feels like they need to arrange for their own safety, it helps our cause.

Quoted: In a strange and obtuse way, I actually think this will NOT help the cause of gun owners right in this country. This event has illustrated in a VERY graphic manner, the undisputed fact that law enforcment and the government have a harder time helping people when the citizens are allowed to be armed can not, and will not, be there to protect the individual.

Sadly, I fixed it for you

Quoted: nope. liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings." it's no use arguing with them.

1)if there werent any guns sold in walmart then the looters couldnt have gotten any guns to run around and shoot people

2)If we would have made laws that said "all guns illegal in N.O." Then no one would of had any guns to shoot innocent people and cops with.

If you wait till a crisis to get a firearm, you waited to long.

Quoted: Quoted: nope. liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings." it's no use arguing with them.   1)if there werent any guns sold in walmart then the looters couldnt have gotten any guns to run around and shoot people 2)If we would have made laws that said "all guns illegal in N.O." Then no one would of had any guns to shoot innocent people and cops with.

Oh, just like in England? What about the bats, 2x4s, chains, axes, knives, do I have to go on?

Quoted: Quoted: In a strange and obtuse way, I actually think this will NOT help the cause of gun owners right in this country. This event has illustrated in a VERY graphic manner, the undisputed fact that law enforcment and the government have a harder time helping people when the citizens are allowed to be armed can not, and will not, be there to protect the individual. Sadly, I fixed it for you

I mean this as a serious question, but does that mean you think the avaerage American looks at this and doesn't have thoughts about buying a gun?  I'm not talking about an emotion they will act upon, but don't you think that deep down, most Americans see what is happening and suddenly get a tight feeling in their chest, brought on by fear that they are unprepared?  

I'm not saying this is something our side can use as propoganda.  Actually, I think we're better off not pointing out the obvious in this case.  I just have a feeling this is a net gain for us.  Then again, I'm an optimist.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: nope. liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings." it's no use arguing with them.   1)if there werent any guns sold in walmart then the looters couldnt have gotten any guns to run around and shoot people 2)If we would have made laws that said "all guns illegal in N.O." Then no one would of had any guns to shoot innocent people and cops with. Oh, just like in England? What about the bats, 2x4s, chains, axes, knives, do I have to go on?

I wasnt the least bit serious when making that post

Thats what the anti gunners will say though

I forsee a new battle cry from the Antis saying "look at what guns did in New Orleans! We must ban them all NOW so it will never happen again!" with total disregard of the need to meet the bad guys with either the same or overwhelming force that they have - don't bring a knife to a gun fight - and the lack of forsight that criminals will inherently disobey the law anyways.

Deaths by beating will be on the rise.

We'll never change the minds of the rabid leftists. The moderate soccer moms and midget football dads will be an easier sell.

Those people put their families above politics and obtuse agendas. Those people will consider the possibility that gun ownership is actually a good thing for the safety of their families. The leftists are just mindless drones that spout political slogans, one-liners, and talking points.

I disagree - sheeple are sheeple for a reason.
They lack memory, they lack drive, and they lack situational awareness.
They will soon forget - you shall see.

Quoted: I mean this as a serious question, but does that mean you think the avaerage American looks at this and doesn't have thoughts about buying a gun?  I'm not talking about an emotion they will act upon, but don't you think that deep down, most Americans see what is happening and suddenly get a tight feeling in their chest, brought on by fear that they are unprepared?   I'm not saying this is something our side can use as propoganda.  Actually, I think we're better off not pointing out the obvious in this case.  I just have a feeling this is a net gain for us.  Then again, I'm an optimist.

I indirectly had this conversation with a life long, Maryland person -- 47 years old.

I've talked to him before about his plans to safeguard his family.  When the conversation gets too deep, he bails.

The other day, he asks me how much I carry a handgun with me.   I tell him that I carry every chance I can (I travel out of state a lot).  

After a long conversation, with him admitting that danger can strike anywhere, that he would kill to protect his family, and that he isn't 18 anymore, and needs an equalizer.   I asked him why he wouldn't c hoose a gun, the best tool to accomplish that.   He answer?   Gut feel tells him that if you carry a gun, you are MORE likely to run into trouble.  

No amount of stats about CCW holders being far more law abiding would sway that built-in programming that a lifetime of living in a nearly gun-free, sheeplized State has put into him.

Quoted: Quoted: In a strange and obtuse way, I actually think this will help the cause of gun owners right in this country. This event has illustrated in a VERY graphic manner, the undisputed fact that law enforcment and the government can not, and will not, be there to protect the individual. It has reminded everybody that individuals are responsible for their own security and well being. Yes, there are those that look at this and bitch about the need for more government involvement, but in the backs of everybody's mind is the reality that no amount of government can save every individual every time. Take a look at the panic buying of gasoline. What do you really think people are doing this for? Yes, there is a certain amount of nervousness about future prices, but its more about supply and making sure they can fend for themselves. Its about the need of the individual to secure their own supply so they can ride out whatever may come. I was in the grocery store here in the suburbs of Washington DC and found the shevles bare in the water aisle. Why would there be panic buying of water in Northern VA right now? The clerk told me people were buying 4 and 5 cases at a time and they couldn't keep it in stock. The reason is because people are just more focused on securing thier own homes and futures right now. They are expressing their belief that government may not always be there to provide for them and they are taking steps to provide for themselves. I know we have a short attention span in this country. All that stored water will come out of storage in a month or so and be consumed. The gas people are putting into 5 gallon cans will not get stabalizer added to it and there will be a rash of gummed up lawn mowers next spring. The urgency will fade. However, the next time a gun control issue comes before the nation, the old lines will ring just a bit more hollow with a few more folks. The anti-gun cries of "why do you need a gun?" or "who needs an assault rifle" and "the National Guard is the Militia" will just seem silly to anybody who gave any thought at all to the role of government during this crisis. You'll see a shitstorm from both sides on the issue.  Hopefully we prevail

Both of you rest assured what was taken will not be given back.  I have spent alot of time and effort in the summer trying to coordinate efforts to get certain bills out of committee with no results.  In talking with the NRA and Committees and Congress and Senate members it is now exceedingly obvious nothing Pro-Gun in terms of the consumer will be advanced under this administration or the next.  The Democrats will attack and if we are really lucky Delay or Frist will not cave.  The best we can hope for now is maintaining, nothing will be repealed.  Repubs have a lock on the gun issue because they no you as a voter will not vote for the Gun Control advocate/Democrat.  To make gains on the gun issue we need a GOP friendly Libertarian in the oval office, or a massive public outcry for repeals.  We cannot even organize mass efforts on gun boards so how can we shape public opinion?  The mainstream and cable media is against us, most national radio hosts will not touch 2nd issues, and the general public is ignorrant to facts and the NRA is proven it will not help on AW issues.  

So what are we left with, and how can we change it?  

Quoted: We'll never change the minds of the rabid leftists. The moderate soccer moms and midget football dads will be an easier sell. Those people put their families above politics and obtuse agendas. Those people will consider the possibility that gun ownership is actually a good thing for the safety of their families. The leftists are just mindless drones that spout political slogans, one-liners, and talking points.

Big +1.

Quoted: Both of you rest assured what was taken will not be given back.  I have spent alot of time and effort in the summer trying to coordinate efforts to get certain bills out of committee with no results.  In talking with the NRA and Committees and Congress and Senate members it is now exceedingly obvious nothing Pro-Gun in terms of the consumer will be advanced under this administration or the next.  The Democrats will attack and if we are really lucky Delay or Frist will not cave.  The best we can hope for now is maintaining, nothing will be repealed.  Repubs have a lock on the gun issue because they no you as a voter will not vote for the Gun Control advocate/Democrat.  To make gains on the gun issue we need a GOP friendly Libertarian in the oval office, or a massive public outcry for repeals.  We cannot even organize mass efforts on gun boards so how can we shape public opinion?  The mainstream and cable media is against us, most national radio hosts will not touch 2nd issues, and the general public is ignorrant to facts and the NRA is proven it will not help on AW issues.   So what are we left with, and how can we change it?

I respectfully disagree.  How many states have "shall issue" laws now?  The AWB was allowed to sunset.  LE and retired LE now have nationwide CCW.  We're going to get lawsuit protection for the gun industry this year.  We are slowly, but surely taking back what is ours.  We wont get it all at once, but we will get it back one piece at a time.  The current national mood among the sheepole will make that trend easier to continue.

Quoted: nope. liberal mind interprets the situation this way: "well, if no one had any guns, there wouldn't be any shootings." it's no use arguing with them.

Absolutely correct!
The people on arfcom are thinking like the original poster, but I'm telling you right now that almost NO ONE else is.
The thing that really stands out in my mind after all the TV I've been watching (I have a hard time turning it off.  Besides, I'm sure as Hell not going anywhere with $3.39/gal. gas) is this.  There is condemnation after condemnation for the shortcomings of government (at all levels, but especially the Federal Gov.), but NOT ONE TV pundit/reporter has yet suggested that the able bodied, adult citizens of New Orleans should have had a "Bug-Out Bag"!!!!  How much suffering could have been avoided if all able bodied, mature adults had a "Hurricane Bag" packed with eight bottles of drinking water, some extra underwear, a bar of soap, wash cloth, small first aid kit, diapers (if one is a mom w/baby), a small amout of cash, etc. loaded and sitting by the door?  Fer Chrissakes, ALL of these folks KNEW they were living in a hurricane zone.  They ALL KNEW it was hurricane season!  They ALL KNEW the country has been hit by very bad hurricanes for the past couple of years!  For so many to be SO dependant upon government that they can't take care of providing themselves with some essentials for even 48 HOURS is truely amazing.  And that NO ONE has even mentioned this as a breakdown in basic personal responsibility taking is FRIGHTENING!

Quoted: Quoted: Both of you rest assured what was taken will not be given back.  I have spent alot of time and effort in the summer trying to coordinate efforts to get certain bills out of committee with no results.  In talking with the NRA and Committees and Congress and Senate members it is now exceedingly obvious nothing Pro-Gun in terms of the consumer will be advanced under this administration or the next.  The Democrats will attack and if we are really lucky Delay or Frist will not cave.  The best we can hope for now is maintaining, nothing will be repealed.  Repubs have a lock on the gun issue because they no you as a voter will not vote for the Gun Control advocate/Democrat.  To make gains on the gun issue we need a GOP friendly Libertarian in the oval office, or a massive public outcry for repeals.  We cannot even organize mass efforts on gun boards so how can we shape public opinion?  The mainstream and cable media is against us, most national radio hosts will not touch 2nd issues, and the general public is ignorrant to facts and the NRA is proven it will not help on AW issues.   So what are we left with, and how can we change it?   I respectfully disagree.  How many states have "shall issue" laws now?  The AWB was allowed to sunset.  LE and retired LE now have nationwide CCW.  We're going to get lawsuit protection for the gun industry this year.  We are slowly, but surely taking back what is ours.  We wont get it all at once, but we will get it back one piece at a time.  The current national mood among the sheepole will make that trend easier to continue.

It feels more like we are taking two steps backwards, and one step forwards in respect to the 2nd.

I'll believe we are making process when the 89 or the MG ban gets repealed.  The sad truth is that I can't see ANY politican pushing for the legalization of newly mfg'd MG's for civilian ownership