User Panel
Posted: 9/4/2005 8:25:01 AM EDT
Last week one of our many Border Activist posters, in his zeal to inform us all, of the evils of the third world culture of Mexico. Posted a thread describing an incident, that supposedly happened to a friend of his mother in law, while visiting a town on the U.S. Mexican border.
The Story, related to us as fact by the Border Activist poster, was about women visiting the border town, being Drugged, Raped and Beaten. Many posters here felt that the story was a Urban Legend and said as much in the thread. I myself was villified, called a DU troll and a Liberal, for suggesting that the Urban Legend in question, might have roots in Racist Propaganda. These attacks even extended to one ring leader of the Border Activist Clique here on AR15.com, calling for my banning. In the intrest of purify the site of Liberal trolls, who were chasing away the old members! Well...For those of you who thought the Border Rape Story was an Urban Legend and who wondered about it's origins...It turns out you were right. Far from happening last week, as the poster who originated the story claimed. The Stories origins date back much further and are much more sinister than a simple legend lifted from Snopes.com. Here is the Urban Legend as related to us all last week, by the Border Activist Militia Clique. Below the story, in red is an eirily similar account of Border Town Rape, whose authorship and origin will surprise you...
Now here's an Eirily Similar story from an article written in 2001...
Ok...Now here's the best part. You want to know who the author of the exerpt in red is.... Dr. William Pierce The Author of "The Turner Diaries" Thats right. The same, shorter version of the Border Rape Legend comes from the collected works of White Supremacist and Founder of "The National Alliance"....none other than... the late Dr. William Pierce and is availible on The National Alliance Web Page, under an archieved article entitled "The Mexican Menace" from 2001. (Not last week as the Border Activist Clique here on AR15.com claims.) Strange isn't it, that those yell the loudest about the Border Militia's having no racist roots...Are getting their anti-Mexican propaganda from the writings of Dr. William Pierce and "the National Alliance. I guess one of our Border Activist Clique buddies, must have had two piles of Racist Propaganda cluttering up his work station. "The Border Militia" pile and the "National Alliance" pile and must have inadvertently switched one....huh Anyway...for those of you wondering where the Border Rape Legend originated...The Mystery has been solved. |
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That specific story may be urban legend, but the cross-border rapes and disappearances are not. Trust me, I LIVE there.
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There are kidnappings and rapes going on but the whole language of the story was crafted so much like an urban ledgend that it stuck out. Just like if Dr. Suise wrote a story about the New Orleans flood you would know if without even seeing the bi-line I picked the whole language of the story out as a myth - or written by someone who was attempting to write a myth. It's possible that the story writer just picked the wrong language but doubtfully.
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Zaphod
Well thats just the point Zaphod....How can we trust you, When Border Activist Militia Clique, here on AR15.com uses lies and racist propaganda gleened from "the National Alliance's" web site as one of their tools. That sort of tactic, does not engender a whole lot of trust. |
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Who cares what they do? Facts is facts. When I arrived in Laredo, it was (and continues to be) common practicce for women not to travel alone if they can avoid it because there WERE several cases of women being kidnapped and disappearing into Mexico. Now, if the National Alliance people claimed the Nazis gassed Jews, would you decide not to believe it? The border is quite dangerous. Far more than it should be, and the calls to secure the border are supremely valid, no matter who calls for it. |
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That is what I said about the Aruba- Hallaway murder deal. People can't go to forgien countries and act like it is like the USA. Friends should be watching each others back, not letting them fall prey to bad guys. Drinking is not wise. Sorry it happens, but you must be responsible when traveling.
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The border towns do have some redeeming value, but in many respects are like the bar in Star Wars where “you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy”.
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So ,are you a Mexican ,or
just some jackass that's to stupid to see what's been going on down south ? Look up the name of almost ANY border town,or even a town that's just in the lower southern states. Look up the freaking crime rates there. See how much of the crime is committed by non-citizens, and also check out the percentage of local violant crime inmates that are from Mexico. Now look up what it was like in those same towns 10 and 15 years ago. Is there a difference ? If that's to much work for you,on a trip to a border state or deep southern state,stop in at a post office. Take a look at the wanted posters. Does the percentage of criminals on the wanted posters that are Mexican closely resemble their percentage of the local population ? Oh,please notice,I did NOT say HISPANICS. I said MEXICANS. Look it up ,there's a difference. Before you spot off some ludicrous response,try some of my suggestions. My thoughts on what to do about the border? We need to use up our aging munitions somewhere,sometime. Why not there,and now ? Oh ,and your right .I DON'T like Mexicans. The town I lived in was Clarksville Arkansas. Not a border state,but still destroyed by the invasion. Check out their crime rate 20 years ago and check it out today. You can't walkor drive 10 seconds in the once beautiful Ozark National Forest without seeing piles of trash and spanish phrases spray painted everywhere. Also look up Mexico City and kidnapping. Their the "Kidnapping Capitol" of the world. |
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I don't go to all the border towns, but do travel to Juarez (across from El Paso) quite often. I can tell you first hand that it isn't safe for any woman, white or brown. Juarez is called "The City of the Dead" and "The City of Murdered Women" for a reason. But, you don't have to trust Zaphod, me, or anyone else here. Just ask these girls and the hundreds others just like them. If that isn't enough, just do a Google search for juarez women Here's a good place to start: www.mayhem.net/Crime/juarez.html OR education.nmsu.edu/faculty/ci/milevy/darcie.html Then, there was this little gem from just a couple of weeks ago:
For me, this isn't about race, racism, border issues or any other political issue. It is simply a matter of FACT. Period. Now, go educate yourself about what is really going on and quit trying to politicize everything. |
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Of course Nazis gassed Jews, which would make it even more baffling if someone started some story about them, say, piping poison gas in through your toilet or something, so "MAKE SURE TO NEVER FLUSH YOUR TOILET BECAUSE OF THE NAZIS!! OMG!" |
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FN-TPS...
I dont understand the reason for your post... Are you really tring to say that these things dont/havent/ and will never actually happen ..? PLS come out from whatever rock your living out and realize this type of thing does happen... or were you offended insome way by the story... so you found that story on snopes.... good for you... but women do die and vanish along border towns... |
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Did we find out if this portion applied to the original poster, or if the email was passed on as-is after it turned up in his inbox from some distant relative who always forwards crap to everybody? |
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Anyone remember Matamoros and the mass graves with the bodies of US college students in them from awhile back? |
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Just because William Pierce made a statement about something, it doesnt make it immediately false. It also doesnt make it racist. You may not agree with the man on the majority of his beliefs, but that doesnt mean that every word out of the mans mouth had its roots in his doctrine.
If Hitler had remarked on the sky being blue, would that make it a racist remark to talk about the blue sky on a beautiful summer day? Would it mean that the sky wasn't blue, simply because a racist leader made the statement? I am not taking sides...and I have no horse in the race...but the story about the rape is what it is. It happens, lets not pretend it doesnt. Its not a racist sentiment, just an observation. And frankly, if a person goes into a hostile 3rd world country looking for adventure, they are on their own. |
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I'm not saying Rapes and murders do not occure in Border towns.
What I'm saying is that they are far fewer in occurance, than murders of tourists in New Orleans, which before katrina, was reported to have a murder rate ten times higher than any other city in the United States. Yet before the storm, I didn't see any Urban Legends posted saying "White women shouldn't shop on Bourbon St, because they might get Drugged, Raped and Robbed. This thread is more about the agenda of those Border Militia Clique members, who would knowingly engage in the "ends Justify the means" tactics of the lie and the racial smear. If all these horrible Druggings, Rapes and Murders of innocent white women are occuring in the border towns every day....then don't you think posting a simple truthfull link would be more helpfull to your cause...rather than doctoring up a story from "The National Alliance web page" Why would you need William Peirce and the National Alliance at all?....Why would constructing an Urban Legend be nessecary or vital? |
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+1... don't live on the border anymore (not for years) but visit lots for work. ETA: Here's your link to the truth www.laredosmissing.com/home.html |
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I call I HAVE to go to the hell hole. I don't go because I WANT to. Links HAVE been posted for Juarez. If you could remove your head from your etopian fantasy world long enough to click on one, you may learn something. It's called educating yourself. Don't let the loud popping noise scare you. No one is constructing anything here. Once again, what part of the word FACT do you fail to understand? It doesn't sound like you have much room mentioning anything about someone else trying to use 'ends to justify means'. Unless I read something wrong, you are using what's going on in New Orleans to somehow lessen the severity of what goes on in the border towns and crying racism against anyone who quotes you FACT. Man, are you for real? ETA - now it looks like Nationwide has added a link for Laredo as well. |
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JksTexas
Yes I do JksTexas...But I have not heard of such a case in Mexico in the last ten years or so. While several serial killers here in the United States have been caught with multiple bodies buried under the house and in the back yard...without propaganda being manufactured to portray us as a third world hell hole. Why is it nessecary for lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda to be used by the Border Militia Clique, if Mexican mass murder is so prevalent. |
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The urban legend and propaganda are prulgated by the estabolishment to both smear those who call attention to the problem, and to keep the focus of the real problem, incompetent Gov't... |
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Not all of it IS lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda. Most of it is FACT. BTW - just how much news do you get from Mexico on a daily basis? Most of this information isn't broadcast in Mexico. It trickles out from groups like Amnesty International and people like me who have been there and SEEN it. Do you really think that the Mexican government WANTS you to know how dangerous it is? For better or worse, we publicize a lot in this country, including the worst of our society. We don't sweep it under the rug because it is bad for business. |
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Who is to say how much of each? There is just enough mis-information out there to cause doubt... enough to make people think it may not be the problem that it really is... |
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Nationwide
Thousands of people go missing all the time here in the United States for a variety of reasons not always relating to murder. FBI Missing Persons Just because you've got a Border Missing Persons link, does not mean you have a case for deminizing Mexico. |
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Last time I was in Juarez, I got to watch them pull the body of a 16 year old girl out from a ditch behind a factory. They had to use four wheelers to drag her out. She had been stabbed 23 times. That, and driving by and seeing with my own eyes all the pink crosses planted on the vacant lots is enough for me to know what I need to know. You can believe otherwise if you want. |
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I guess nobody wants to talk about the fact, that tin foil Border Militia types who manufactured this little Urban Lie, from the Racist rantings of Dr. William Pierce, are unworthy of trust and lack the character to say their Militia's represent the American People?
When you start making up Racist Propaganda hit peices out of thin air . You lose the trust of the American people real quick and suddeny you find yourself, not a member of a militia, but a supporter af a White Supremacist Terror oganization instead. Do any of you truely believe, that the American People would want to be represented by a Militia who borrows it's propaganda from the late Dr William Peirce and the National Alliance? Claiming to be a Militia that represents the American People and actualy being a Militia which represents the values and honorable conduct the American people would expect of it's Militia protectors are two very different things. The American people don't want a Militia that Lies and uses National Alliance Propaganda. A Dishonorable Militia , that lies and engages in Racist Activities, is a bigger threat to America than Mexican Illegal Immigration. |
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Please provide source/proof that ONLY 'Border Militia types' are 'constructing' these 'lies, disinformation, Urban Legend and Propaganda'.
I have quoted you FACT. You constantly ignore because you can't argue against it.
Again, no one is making up anything. At least not in my case. I have been there and seen it with my own eyes.
Somehow it seems that you think that whoever these people are are the only ones making any type of claims.
No, I would rather be represented by someone who uses the US CONSTITUTION and the Laws of this land. However, I doubt any group is just ignoring those documents and winging it. making up their own rules.
WTF are you talking about? Can you read? Whose agenda are you pushing? |
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There's only one kind of American that goes to Mexico, an Dumb-American. Why are you paying to go where you might get robbed, kidnapped, raped, etc...? Might as well stay in the USA where we have the infastructure to save you in minutes if the same thing happens.
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The only thing more irritating than lunatic 88's are the pompous asshats who claim repeatedly to know "what the American People want" People of this country are perfectly capable of expressing what they want and what they don't want without someone pontificating for them. As for ILLEGAL immigrants (from any country) they can get the hell out and go through the process like EVERY OTHER LEGAL IMMIGRANT. |
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And isn't it funny how often we find people, here on Ar15.com, who wave the "CONSTITUTION" with one hand and and the "TURNER DIARIES" with the other. |
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So, what's the title of the book you are waving? The Official French Guide to Uninvited Invasion? |
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I spent a long time in Mexico, and I am not a dumb American. The interior towns and cities are a lot better than the border towns, I'll grant you. We did have a number of close calls a few times, but that was because it was during elections. |
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MrClean4Hire
Yeah, I've been accused so far, of being a DU Troll, a Liberal Troll and a Race Card Playing Troll. All by a bunch of members bent on defending a fabricated Racist lie, told here on AR15.com, by our very own clique of Racist Trolls These Racist Trolls even went so far, as attempting to have me banned! Oh Whoops MrClean4Hire...I forgot...There are no Racist Trolls on Ar15.com now days...Their all calling themselves Constitutional Patriots and Minutemennow...A much more politically correct term, for their activities. |
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So, now I'm a Racist Troll? Let's see,............................................which one of us keeps throwing around the 'R' word? I give you credit. You constantly amaze me with your blind ignorance. You know NOTHING about me, yet you are the one who has labeled me a 'Racist Troll'. I shouldn't be surprised. I guess this is some new liberal ploy; demean the words "patriots", "minutemen", and "militia", associate and equate them with 'racism' so anyone using any of the words is automatically cast out. Make them words that conjures the OPPOSITE meaning in peoples heads. Nice. Perhaps if you put down the 'R' word and quit hiding behind it, you would find far less people calling you 'troll'. |
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By the way....What do you suppose the ratio of Racist William Peirce National Alliance Propaganda quoting Trolls to DU quoting Liberal Trolls is on this site...
Judging from the number of "Black Savages in New Orleans" threads, locked for Racist Content over the last few days and the fact that staff, even felt the need to tack a Racist Content Warning Thread at the top of GD... I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that Racist to Liberal Troll ratio at being about a100 Racist Trolls to about 5 Liberal Trolls. |
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Well, now it becomes a little clearer. So, let's learn a little about Mr. Kenneth S. Stern, the author of your little manifesto. Repeat after me. EXPOSED. One more time...... EXPOSED........ From the publisher's notes about the very book you are reading:
So, anyone with a gun is a terrorist, a member of hate group like the Klan, Nazis, etc, a cop killer and/or a revolutionist? Better hurry up with the weapons confiscation plan there Field Marshall Bigot before society unravels. Nice job. This guy has his tin foil, glued on, taped down, and screwed in doesn't he? Further: www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1996/vo12no06/vo12no06_fascism.htm
from the same article:
Good to know which side you are really on. So, you sit and claim racism for anyone who claims to be pro-American, pro-soverignity, anti-illegal immigration, etc, Oh yeah, 'Mexican demonizing' was the term you used. Yet from the very same mouth spills even more venomous BS. You want to call anyone associated with militias or feelings of American nationalism 'crack pots' and threats to democracy. Nice job labeling everyone with a broad brush. So, if I own an AR or AK, am I some 'government fearing right-wing nut job' like everyone else? To summarize, it sounds as if you think you are entitled to your thoughts but the thoughts of others must be legislated, criminalized, etc. Hypocrite. Might I suggest this one? Maybe you might learn why you even have the very basic right to sit here and spout such things. BTW - almost every person on ARFcom would DEFEND your RIGHTS to do so. |
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I live near Zaphod and it's true, the story might be urban legend like Zaphod said, but it does happen |
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Illegal immigration is a big burden on this country on several levels. That isn`t propaganda. You can call all the little old ladies sitting in their lawn chairs with binoculars, spotting illegals for the border patrol, racist militia all you want.
The truth is we see what an ugly problem this is and how much uglier it will become if it isn`t stopped. It isn`t about racism, it`s about the survival or our country. Do you think the Mexican citizens who want the border sealed are racist militia too? I think i saw you say you wanted the border closed too, if you did, i have no problem telling you i don`t believe you. Where do you stand on groups like La-Raza? |
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Jesus Thompsondd....didn't you even look at the author who wrote that hit piece on "A Force Upon the Plain", Before you posted it.
That peice was written by William Norman Grigg. Most often found writting Anti Government tin foil stuff at New America and LewRockwell.com, both of which are sites well known, as steaming cauldrons of Anti-Government hate. These sits don't represent mainstream Conservatism and are simply the same as "The National Alliance and StormFront, only without the pictures of burning crosses. You know what William Norman Grigg, Dr William Peirce, Aryan Republican Army bank robber/murderer Robert Matthews, Abortion Clinic Bomber Eric Robert Rudolph and Oklahoma City Bomber Timothy McViegh all have in common? They were all members or contributers of the John Birch Society, at one time or anouther and they all claimed to be Constitutional Patriots. If Timothy McViegh had not bombed the Federal Building on April 19th 1994. I feel quite confident, that he'd be a member of this site. With a name like WacoBrng or KilJBTs. He'd probably be a big fan of New America and Lew Rockwell.com. Surfing them every day and post along with the Border Militia Clique ten times a day, while calling various members, who caught him, using Dr. William Peirce quotes....Liberal DU Trolls in need of a banning. |
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IronSamVain
There are plenty of Racist Little Old Ladies...Even Dr. William Peirce had girl friends. I wish I could find that picture of the Snell chick, who was connected to executed Racist Murderer Richard Wayne Snell of Elohim City fame, holding the sign at the MinuteMan Border Militia rally a couple of months ago. Be carefull about talking about the little old ladies....cause I might tell you, who some of them really are. |
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Them bozos show up at every gun show I go to. I wish they'd quit, they give us gun owners a bad name.
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Damn their racist old souls! Granny got her binoculars, and we all know the only reason granny would be out there sweating her wrinkled tits off on bingo night is because she just has a thing for Mexicans, for no reason other than they have brown skin. And the Mexican citizens who feel the same way granny does about wanting to protect their country? They racist too? Can you list any problems from illegal immigration you don`t like? How to you feel about La Raza? |
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IronSamVane
You mistake me for someone who is Pro-illigal Immigration sir. The fact is I am quite for sealing the border and sending every illigal alien we can lay hands on back across the border. My problem with allowing Racist Militia's to represent us in this effort, is that by giving them a seat at the Anti-Illegal Immigration table...we damage our cause as a whole...Racist Militia's may draw some positive publicity to the cause of sealing the border with their circus act in the short term...but may well be the death of that cause in the long term, as the public learns more and more about the character and veiws of those Racist Border Miltia's. The simple truth of the matter is that, I a Patriotic American Gunowner...Do not want to be represented, by some group of tin foil, anti-government, misfits and wannabe's who claim the rights of the Militiaman, while spouting racist propaganda gleened from race hatred websites. When a group of people lower themselves to Racist Propaganda and the Fascist Tactics of American Neo-Nazi's, they have forfeited their right to represent themselves as a Constitutiuonaly Sanctioned Militia for the common defense of the American People. At the point, where they embrace the tactics of the Lie...these so called Militia's become nothing more than a camoflage wearing, anti government, rabble with guns. |
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I am glad that you are for dealing with the problem's caused by illegals. However, the enemy doesn't have quite the same restrictions on who they pose in front of the camera. Pro-immigrantion forces fight dirty and use race baiting tactics. I do have a problem with requiring the anti-illegal people to be pure as the wind driven snow in order for their voices to be heard. While the pro-immigration people dig up the nastiest vilest creatures to spread outright lies, propaganda, and mis-information, to marginalize their opponents and deny them (us) a place at the discussion table. |
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Does one have to be racist and member of a militia to help the border patrol? You know that the BP aren`t getting the job done, and there is a serious lack of interest in our government to get the job done. The "circus act" shut down illegal crossings where they were stationed, and i don`t remember hearing of any hangings done by the Minutemen. When the word got out they didn`t even try to cross where the Minutemen were because they knew they would get caught. I think the Minuteman project has givin the people hope that all is not lost, and has shown that we can get it done. Knowing the lack of concern within the government and the ineffectivness of the BP to stop them all, would you rather noone did anything? Noone would be down there if the border was sealed, it isn`t sealed by a long shot. So We the People have begun to handle it ourselves. After all We the People are the ones most effected by it. Any thoughts of La Raza? How bout the Mexican citizens who are cheering on, and or directly part of the Minutemen? |
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