to get things moving?

I give all politicians crap, because, most of the time they deserve it. But I also will recognize good things politicians do too. So...I've also noticed that neither Bush or the Republicans bashed the Democrats for letting their own citizens down by not preparing correctly and not being able to get help to those stranded. The NO Mayor was worthless before this horrible disaster and has been afterwards. Same goes for the Governor. No offense to the LA Arfcommers. But they have done a bad job.

LA's Governor and the NO Mayor were standing there screaming, "HELP!", like all liberals do when they have confronted with a real crisis. And Bush, personally, takes over as soon as he sees that these two are completely worthless. The FEMA head should be glad he's got someone with some work eithic and some strength above him. I wonder if anyone else noticed?

Good call. Of course the libes wont see it that way, they will defend their fellow  worthless slugs as victims instrad of criminals.

Had LA governor been a republican they would be screaming.

well duh!  

I just hope the American People are finally seeing the true face of lieberalizm... If only the media could report facts.........................

.......... and it's about DAMNED TIME he did.

Quoted: .......... and it's about DAMNED TIME he did.

Dood, you're sounding an awful lot like Jesse Jackson these days... what's up?

But it's all his fault! And the evil Corporations too, and the banks for refusing to cash checks of non customers!  

Chain of command- The mayor had to fark things up, then the governor had to fark things up, now with the situation even more farked up than before, President Bush is expected to unfark it.

To be honest you don't really even see the NOLA elected officals on the tube.

WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.  


He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit.

See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it.

Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help?

Quoted: Quoted: .......... and it's about DAMNED TIME he did. Dood, you're sounding an awful lot like Jesse Jackson these days... what's up?

We live in a highly political enviroment.

Bush's poll numbers are at rock bottom.

Everyone knows you need to put on a good show for disasters.

Bush got beat up for his "slow" response on 9/11 and the Tsunami



GWB should have been off vacation, and ready to set wheels down in the disaster area LAST MONDAY.

The Mayor of New Orleans is obviously over his head.   The Governor of LA is over her head.

I hate Federalism, but in a case like this - our response needed to be swift and overwhelming.

Hell, we  only have 300 helicopters in the whole area right now!

Quoted: I've got dollars to bet against doughnuts that the Secret Service didn't want to have any part of the President with boots on the ground even today with all the sniping, Somolia "technicals" (pickups full of guns), and looting going on.

I didn't like that crap either.  I frankly just don't see a need.  I was hoping it would be a 3 to 4 helicopter patrol.  One of those where we don't know which one the prez is in.

I think the Mayor could not do much of anything, except limit losses- the city was lost.  The Governor has the entire state to deal with... for these reasons we are united states of the United States of America.  

Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help?

He was supposed to act like a man in charge.  Instead of getting on TV and looking like an ASSHAT.  He should have continued to be a strong leader.  Someone for his people to look up to.   He needs to continue to work with what he has until more help shows up.  You never give up.  To me, he seemed like a defeated man.  I never noticed RG crying after his city was attacked on 9/11.  

if bush had stepped in any sooner, he would have been accused of not letting people do their jobs.

Quoted: Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help? He was supposed to act like a man in charge.  Instead of getting on TV and looking like an ASSHAT.  He should have continued to be a strong leader.  Someone for his people to look up to.   He needs to continue to work with what he has until more help shows up.  You never give up.  To me, he seemed like a defeated man.  I never noticed RG crying after his city was attacked on 9/11.

Well there weren't hundreds of thousands people stranded with no where to go that day either .  without water or food.  The mayor was asking for help.

I am not saying he did a perfect job but saying that he fucked it up so royally that Bush had to step in is just politically obtuse.

You know, I normally have W's back, but I think he waited too long.

After the first day of riots and looting and out of control refugees, it was pretty clear we needed to send in the cavalry.  I know the state government takes some blame too, but to let that go on for FOUR days is just ridiculous.

What is upsetting is that troops weren't mobilized ahead of time.  If you know a Cat. 4-5 storm is going to a major city, you need to start getting shit together NOW, not after the SHTF.

Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help?

Sorry, but I saw Rudy take a very visable role right after 9/11 and "WORKED" to get emergency personnel on station. The Mayor could have put people on school buses to get them out before the storm hit. He could have asked the police and fire departments to make sure people got out. And right after the storm went by, all he could do is complain about there was no help. I'm sure the President was working to make sure that our country didn't completely implode because the gas supply was close to being completely cut off. I am still leary of the near future with our gas supply, but I'd bet, he was working to make sure the good of the whole country was sound before he could step in to take over in New Orleans. And it IS the job of the Mayor and the Governor to take the lead role first. All I heard was them complaining and not knowing what to do. All they could say is..."Where is FEMA?" While their own police force runs. No offense to the police that stayed or other LEO's. But that was a shame. I wouldn't want that job, but I didn't sign up for it either. They did and they couldn't be counted on. I know when I was in the military, there was NO WAY I was going to run, if the time came.

And with all of this, now the Mayor of Detroit and "our" Governor ask for some of the refuges to be placed in Detroit. Good "political" move. More democratic voters to keep a strangle hold on this State and more "Federal" dollars for the Mayor to spend on his drinking habits.

I am sick to think the Democrats may be using this as a political move, when I am not seeing that from the Republicans. Sure, this may help Bush in his poll numbers, but I also saw that he was letting the right "elected" officals try to do their job first. The way it's suppose to be. Unfortunately, the democrats involved were worthless and people had to die because of it. And if the Mayor had made SURE that people knew how bad the storm might be, I am sure he could have convinced many more to move out of the path of the storm, instead of creating this horrible, horrible chaos.

Bush had to beg the stupid mayor to declare a mandatory evac!!!!!

What has the mayor been doing?  It is the City of NO job to prepare for disasters.  This disaster happened just as it was predicted to.  They had to know what would happen.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help? He was supposed to act like a man in charge.  Instead of getting on TV and looking like an ASSHAT.  He should have continued to be a strong leader.  Someone for his people to look up to.   He needs to continue to work with what he has until more help shows up.  You never give up.  To me, he seemed like a defeated man.  I never noticed RG crying after his city was attacked on 9/11.   Well there weren't hundreds of thousands people stranded with no where to go that day either .  without water or food.  The mayor was asking for help. I am not saying he did a perfect job but saying that he fucked it up so royally that Bush had to step in is just politically obtuse.

Your right.  He didn't screw things up royally.  However, his interview made him seem like a man giving up.  I was disappointed to see a public official acting in such a way.

Quoted: You know, I normally have W's back, but I think he waited too long. After the first day of riots and looting and out of control refugees, it was pretty clear we needed to send in the cavalry.  I know the state government takes some blame too, but to let that go on for FOUR days is just ridiculous. What is upsetting is that troops weren't mobilized ahead of time.  If you know a Cat. 4-5 storm is going to a major city, you need to start getting shit together NOW, not after the SHTF.

+1

Hell, Ray Charles could have seen this shit coming.........

Can you imagine what a President Goldwater (yes, I realize he lost in '64...) would have done in a situation like this? Lol....the looters should be glad we have a "compassionate conservative" in there now....

Quoted: if bush had stepped in any sooner, he would have been accused of not letting people do their jobs.

Yep he would have been "stepping on other's toes for the sake of his own grandstanding".

I had an argument with a liberal idiot at work today, and I said the governer and the mayor have more to blame for not having a plan and she said: they did have a plan, they asked for funds to repair the levee last year and Bush turned it down.  I was like WTF, that's a plan?  I could draw up a better plan with crayons and construction paper sitting on the can.  Where was their contingency plan?  Where was their "armageddon is upon us plan"?  Sure there's not quite enough funds, but then again, is there ever?  That's what makes some leaders shine: doing right with barely enough.  

Fucking idiots at work.  And what's even scarier, I work for the feds and this level of thinking where money is going to solve the world's ills is all permeated here!

Quoted: Quoted: if bush had stepped in any sooner, he would have been accused of not letting people do their jobs. Yep he would have been "stepping on other's toes for the sake of his own grandstanding".

Who gives a fuck? A lot more people would have been alive if Bush took over earlier.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but if people are still concerned about what people think of GWB, you got bigger problems.  Nothing personal to the poster, I am just saying everything bad about GWB has already been said by some bleeding heart.

I am saying troops need to be mobilized AHEAD of time.  As soon as there were 175+ mph winds at one point, pointing towards New Orleans, that is when he should have taken over.  Not D+4.

Quoted: Who gives a fuck? A lot more people would have been alive if Bush took over earlier.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but if people are still concerned about what people think of GWB, you got bigger problems.  Nothing personal to the poster, I am just saying everything bad about GWB has already been said by some bleeding heart. I am saying troops need to be mobilized AHEAD of time.  As soon as there were 175+ mph winds at one point, pointing towards New Orleans, that is when he should have taken over.  Not D+4.

i can appreciate your point, but i think it quite possible that bush and the other federal agencies had no idea how unprepared no was for this situation. i was simply stunned as the detail came out and it seemed as if noone had given any thought to even the basics. even after the first day the mayor was telling people it would be just a few weeks to drain.

my belief is that with fema and home sec under him, bush really should not be required to step in to accomplish the jobs of other agencies. by the time this was realized, it was probably 48 hourts too late to get things rolling.

Quoted: Quoted: Who gives a fuck? A lot more people would have been alive if Bush took over earlier.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but if people are still concerned about what people think of GWB, you got bigger problems.  Nothing personal to the poster, I am just saying everything bad about GWB has already been said by some bleeding heart. I am saying troops need to be mobilized AHEAD of time.  As soon as there were 175+ mph winds at one point, pointing towards New Orleans, that is when he should have taken over.  Not D+4. i can appreciate your point, but i think it quite possible that bush and the other federal agencies had no idea how unprepared no was for this situation. i was simply stunned as the detail came out and it seemed as if noone had given any thought to even the basics. police commo, transportation, etc. even after the first day the mayor was telling people it would be just a few weeks to drain. my belief is that with fema and home sec under him, bush really should not be required to step in to accomplish the jobs of other agencies. by the time this was realized, it was probably 48 hourts too late to get things rolling.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: if bush had stepped in any sooner, he would have been accused of not letting people do their jobs. Yep he would have been "stepping on other's toes for the sake of his own grandstanding". Who gives a fuck? A lot more people would have been alive if Bush took over earlier.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but if people are still concerned about what people think of GWB, you got bigger problems.  Nothing personal to the poster, I am just saying everything bad about GWB has already been said by some bleeding heart. I am saying troops need to be mobilized AHEAD of time.  As soon as there were 175+ mph winds at one point, pointing towards New Orleans, that is when he should have taken over.  Not D+4.

I'm not trying to defend Bush as I feel there is no need for a defense. And in truth, a lot more people would be alive if they had left instead of ignoring the repeated pleas for them to leave. And more still would be alive if there weren't so many low life scum bags living there in the first place. Place the blame where it deserved. The only ones I feel sorry for are the ones that COULDN'T get out, no matter what. I honestly can't understand anyone's surprise that a large city, built well below sea level, adjacent to an ocean and a large lake, would be destroyed at some point.  Nature's a mother.

What you are seeing in New Orleans today has very little to do with President Bush getting directly involved with anything.  The DoD assets that are there today have been moving in that direction since the scope of the disaster widened considerably - the levees giving way.

The Army is leaning so far forward in responding to this that they are just about tipping over.  Absolutely the most proactive I have ever seen them.  In fact they are almost deploying units before FEMA and NORTHCOM request them.  Almost moving too fast in that forces may show up without their prospective chain of command knowing they are coming and being ready to receive them.  Hasn't happened yet, but it's on the verge.

Be very proud of the Army in particular and the DoD as a whole (and this is coming from a USN guy in a joint job).  The President's involvement may speed up FEMA, but I don't have any visibility on what they are doing, what resources they have, and what challenges they are dealing with.  It also may help subsequent DoD deployments, but we are already moving really fast.

Quoted: You know, I normally have W's back, but I think he waited too long. After the first day of riots and looting and out of control refugees, it was pretty clear we needed to send in the cavalry.  I know the state government takes some blame too, but to let that go on for FOUR days is just ridiculous. What is upsetting is that troops weren't mobilized ahead of time.  If you know a Cat. 4-5 storm is going to a major city, you need to start getting shit together NOW, not after the SHTF.

Stuff was being put together BEFORE the storm hit, it still takes 3-5 days to recall NG troops, ramp up the red cross and FEMA, gather supplies, get the trucks, load the trucks, figure out where the stuff needs to go, how to get there, and drive across the country..... And thats with predefined plans....

Or do you think the government is hiding Teleportation technology???

Has anyone ever heard of the chain of command? Sheesh, the mayor is a stupid race baiting liberal and the Gov of LA is a handwringing poor excuse of even a grandmother. Absolutely WORTHLESS as LEADERS. You know, thats what they are PAID for, right? If Bush had federalized the guard troops before the sad excuse of a gov peed on herself crying about the disaster there would be hell to pay. Did not know LA had no guard myself and since it is the frikkin Govenors job to mobilize them where the hell was she? Putting on makeup? Cleaning off the mascara smeers from crying? If she was any kind of a Gov she could have mobilized them before the hurricane hit and had them standing by. Trying to do it afterward is a joke as exactly how do you do it when there is no tele, elec. and roads are closed.

Thye weakness of the liberal government was displayed for all to see in LA and NO, no matter what ANYONE says, you and you alone are responsible for you and your familys safety after a disaster. Period. The government is not your momma, and it cannot kiss your "boo-boos" and make them go away. And, if you stay against all requests, orders, cajoling, or whatever then you need to be ready for everything and anything. Because in the end it'll be you against whatever is out there until help arrives. Thats usually in 3 or 4 days based on historical data, maybe more.    And I used to live in LA and for all the great people who live there, they have a worthless state government.

Here is the mayor's fuck up. He says he needs buses to evacuate people. Well here they are.



Why these were not moved to high ground so they would be available for evacuations and disaster relief is a question I would like to see him answer.

Everybody seems to be missing the part about him declaring Louisiana a disaster area before the hurricane hit.
Dubya started the ball rolling, but the next two down the line didn’t want to follow his lead.

I think the libs will still see Bush as not giving out free handouts fast enough. They will find a way to blame everyone but themselves.

Let me share a little info with you..... I have 20+ years in the fire, ems, and emergency services area.  I am directly involved in the state of Texas emergency management plan and functions.
We have numerous personnel conducting rescue, fire, hazmat, and incident command functions in the NOLA area at this time.

A little Emergency Management 101 for you....
1.  Three people are held accountable and are responsible under state law............ first-the local elected official (mayor) / second-the county or parish CEO / third-the governor.

Each jurisdiction is required by both state and federal law to have a written emergency management plan, and to exercise the components on a regular basis.  Each plan must follow certain key components.......rescue, firefighting, medical, shelter, mass care, food, evacuation, communications, etc etc.

And by state and federal law....the plan works as follows........
1. If local government cannot meet needs as required,
2. request is made for county level assistance as needed.  (several counties may pool resouces.)  If need still exists.....locals & counties make request to state level.
3.  State uses its resouces.....from across state and also thru EMAC (governor to governor)  If need still exists......state (governor) makes request to federal level (fema, etc.)

The mayor of NOLA apparently missed the lecture on how the above system works..  If resources or an operation is needed by locals, they request the item from the state (who issues task assisgnment).  
They either have resources or kick it to the feds....(via the governor.)

The feds WILL NOT bring the calvary unless the request comes from the governor.  

And...the city of NOLA dropped the ball on evacuation, sheltering, mass care, etc..........the first item in the evacuation check list is elderly, nursing homes, hospitals, etc..... and oh yeah, the jail / detention areas are also  there.

MOST communities utilize the area / regional school and mass transit buses for this purpose.

And another major component is public information.........the locals did not get aggresive and communicate key items to the masses at the local level.  

example...in california....they tell you over and over.......
Have a "Go Bag" prepared and ready to go...... three days food, water, meds, etc etc
Why....cause when the big earthquake happens..... you will not see local or state govt for SEVERAL days.......(like at least three!).

And.....numerous flood models have shown and predicted events we are witnessing.  
NOLA did not prepare and did not follow set protocols.  
Each state governor can actually request federal assest before an incident.......these are usually prestaged.
Unfortunatly, in NOLA their answer was to "call the feds" and they are now pointing the finger at numerous other agencies, etc.
It is truely overwhelming for them at the local level.......and it takes time to marshal the resources.  Today, you have seen a large influx of federal assests.......normal time frame to put the assets in......plus, many assets/resouces are deployed overseas. (so capacity is less.)  


 
 

Quoted: Let me share a little info with you..... snip

All three gulf states made requests for aid before the storm hit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help? He was supposed to act like a man in charge.  Instead of getting on TV and looking like an ASSHAT.  He should have continued to be a strong leader.  Someone for his people to look up to.   He needs to continue to work with what he has until more help shows up.  You never give up.  To me, he seemed like a defeated man.  I never noticed RG crying after his city was attacked on 9/11.   Well there weren't hundreds of thousands people stranded with no where to go that day either .  without water or food.  The mayor was asking for help. I am not saying he did a perfect job but saying that he fucked it up so royally that Bush had to step in is just politically obtuse.

You are correct.  

Let's all give up...............it's all Bush's fault.

Quoted: What you are seeing in New Orleans today has very little to do with President Bush getting directly involved with anything.  The DoD assets that are there today have been moving in that direction since the scope of the disaster widened considerably - the levees giving way. The Army is leaning so far forward in responding to this that they are just about tipping over.  Absolutely the most proactive I have ever seen them.  In fact they are almost deploying units before FEMA and NORTHCOM request them.  Almost moving too fast in that forces may show up without their prospective chain of command knowing they are coming and being ready to receive them.  Hasn't happened yet, but it's on the verge. Be very proud of the Army in particular and the DoD as a whole (and this is coming from a USN guy in a joint job).  The President's involvement may speed up FEMA, but I don't have any visibility on what they are doing, what resources they have, and what challenges they are dealing with.  It also may help subsequent DoD deployments, but we are already moving really fast.

I'm in an Marine Artillery unit.  We have been told be prepared to give up Corpsman and other personel.  I'm in Cali.

Quoted: I'm in an Marine Artillery unit.  We have been told be prepared to give up Corpsman and other personel.  I'm in Cali.

Doesn't surprise me a bit, but if you're in Cali, you're in a PACOM unit so I don't have any visibility on you.  There will be more people/things headed in, but I think that the bulk of the SAR/relief effort is in place, enroute, or on PTDO status.

I've been watching the news a lot over the last 12hrs....I am completely tired of hearing how slow the response time was and how it's the Administration's fault.  

Every news outlet is blaming the Administration...in 1 segment when they were airing blog comments....they showed about 3 or 4 liberal-Bush bashing comments and then 1 comment saying that you can't muster a rescue operation of this size in 1 day.

It's still Bush's fault.. no matter how much he does to help the leaders of LA and of N.O.'s lack of pre- and post-planning.

I already heard one news station saying it was Bush's fault because he didn't approve funding for levy improvements however long ago it was brought up.

Quoted: You know, I normally have W's back, but I think he waited too long. After the first day of riots and looting and out of control refugees, it was pretty clear we needed to send in the cavalry.  I know the state government takes some blame too, but to let that go on for FOUR days is just ridiculous. What is upsetting is that troops weren't mobilized ahead of time.  If you know a Cat. 4-5 storm is going to a major city, you need to start getting shit together NOW, not after the SHTF.

Actually, the storm itself was not the deal.  After it missed, NO was in relatively good shape.  Everyone breathed a sigh of relief.  Then the levees broke.

Quoted: Quoted: You know, I normally have W's back, but I think he waited too long. After the first day of riots and looting and out of control refugees, it was pretty clear we needed to send in the cavalry.  I know the state government takes some blame too, but to let that go on for FOUR days is just ridiculous. What is upsetting is that troops weren't mobilized ahead of time.  If you know a Cat. 4-5 storm is going to a major city, you need to start getting shit together NOW, not after the SHTF. +1 Hell, Ray Charles could have seen this shit coming.........

Then why didn't your beloved DEM mayor see it?

Quoted: Who gives a fuck? A lot more people would have been alive if Bush took over earlier.  I know hindsight is 20/20, but if people are still concerned about what people think of GWB, you got bigger problems.  Nothing personal to the poster, I am just saying everything bad about GWB has already been said by some bleeding heart. I am saying troops need to be mobilized AHEAD of time.  As soon as there were 175+ mph winds at one point, pointing towards New Orleans, that is when he should have taken over.  Not D+4.

And you claim to normally be a Bush supporter??????  Your bullshit sounds just like the touchy feely DEMS.

A lot more people would be alive if they had gotten the fuck out when they were told to.  Typical DEMS, shift the blame to anyone but those responsible for their OWN SAFETY.

More people have died because of the thugs shooting at rescue personnel, not because Bush didn't get involved sooner.  The mayor should have asked for and the governor should have sent in the NG long before now.  That IS a state function, now it's a Federal function.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: WTF was the mayor supposed to do?  Call in the NO national guard? Oh yeah they don't exist.   He declared a mandatory evac 48 hours before the storm hit.  NO has little money.  LA has no money.  I don't see how you guys are so critical of the locals.  Bush has stepped in and done what he has to do.  The locals have done their part too.  They asked for help long before the storm hit. See the states give a shitload of money to the Fed.  They expect help from the fed when they need it. Do you seriously think ANY state would have just not asked for help? He was supposed to act like a man in charge.  Instead of getting on TV and looking like an ASSHAT.  He should have continued to be a strong leader.  Someone for his people to look up to.   He needs to continue to work with what he has until more help shows up.  You never give up.  To me, he seemed like a defeated man.  I never noticed RG crying after his city was attacked on 9/11.   Well there weren't hundreds of thousands people stranded with no where to go that day either .  without water or food.  The mayor was asking for help. I am not saying he did a perfect job but saying that he fucked it up so royally that Bush had to step in is just politically obtuse. You are correct.   Let's all give up...............it's all Bush's fault.

Where did I say it was Bush's fault?