Where do you draw the line between SALVAGE and LOOTING?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Where do you draw the line between SALVAGE and LOOTING?

Posted: 9/1/2005 5:57:53 AM EDT

I think most of us would agree taking water and food for survival is one thing, stealing a VCR is something else.

With the waters rising, most of the goods in stores will be ruined anyway. You could argue that the looters are salvaging things - though one has to wonder where they think they can take their loot to.

Stores if and when they reopen will simply throw EVERYTHING in the dumpster and take the insurance.

I'm tending to think that looting stores isn't that bad, but looters hitting homes are a totally different thing, and should be dealt with severely.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:09:23 AM EDT

[#1]

Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:13:04 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.

Using that definition, virtually everything in New Orleans could be considered SALVAGE

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:13:49 AM EDT

[#3]

The city was ordered evacuated. Looters "salvaging" anything are endangering the lives of rescuers.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:16:44 AM EDT

[#4]

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:17:06 AM EDT

[#5]

food & water, diapers and other necessities is understandable

TV's and computers is a shooting offense. Raiding homes is a shooting offense.

It's pretty much a black & white scenario.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:20:08 AM EDT

[#6]

When there are alternative means to get food and water to you via aid & rescue efforts, the argument for 'salvaging' it gets pretty weak. Especially when the entire area has been ordered evacuated.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:23:46 AM EDT

[#7]

Salvaging is when they are in Wal Mart. Looting is when they are in my garage.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:23:56 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Salvage: taking things that have been abandoned and will soon be of no use to anyone if left where they are.

Looting: taking things that are in no danger of destruction and somebody will miss.

Using that definition, virtually everything in New Orleans could be considered SALVAGE

Yeah, pretty much... "looting" in this case means stealing stuff from the other poor bastards who aren't as well armed as you.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:24:10 AM EDT

[#9]

there is no such thing as "salvaging" here! the difference between salvaging and looting is a fucking locked door. i'm pretty fucking sure these people intended to come back to their businesses..."salvage" my fucking ass...

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:24:39 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???

Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:29:42 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???

Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......

I would be happy to give away food and water from my store AFTER me and mine got what we needed and when they start taking everything else too the body recovery team will be working overtime on my street.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:30:31 AM EDT

[#12]

Stealing is stealing. Those people were told to leave the area, they chose to stay and now can't provide for themselves without stealing other people's property.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:30:54 AM EDT

[#13]

Stealing is stealing ... no gray area.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:32:36 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???

Well, a LOT of stuff was washed away anyway......

Into this dumpster yo! So now I's be movin it down da road to mo flucky salvage dis shit!

I guess the gang mentality took over very quickly when one or two people started taking things; the rest joined in.

I just have a hard time morally accepting that decent people would be compelled to steal anything and everything. In some of the video people were pushing displays out of the stores full of product. No it wasn't canned goods but DVDs! There are still parts of the city that are not flooded and I'm sure people are attempting to stash items for when (or if ) they return or to take with them.

These people took advantage of a situation and LOOTED everyhting. Once the orgy of destruction is over and they need help again they will hopefully return to behaving and following socieital norms again.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:35:48 AM EDT

[#15]

i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:45:45 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Some insurance requires items be seen by the adjuster to be credited for. How do they know if it was ever there???

Receipts, if you're so lucky. The newest version of Quicken allows you to scan receipts into the system for safe keeping. Burn your data files to CD and run.

Video & Pictures. Everyone should make periodic visual records of their home contents.

Try to sit in your living room and list everything you have in your family room... or garage. You'll miss a TON of items. Take that video and run with it. It's valid for the insurance guys.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:46:39 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.

The federal government has been giving money to NO and LA for years to upgrade the levee system and pumps, and they had DECADES to design an evcauation plan.

The federal government is NOT to blame for what has happened.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:48:43 AM EDT

[#18]

salvaging returns the salvaged goods or value of said goods to the original owner. Looting is stealing. Those who looted food for survival should of stocked up before the SHTF.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:48:47 AM EDT

[#19]

Looting is stealing, period.

Salvage means you are authorized, either by the owner or the authorities, to pull things out of the area in question.

There has been no salvaging in NO, just looting.

I guess any way to excuse these assholes is fine with some people.

Posted: 9/1/2005 6:52:04 AM EDT

[#20]

These stores are going to *maybe* get repaid by insurance. Living in a flood plain and encountering an *act of God* could easly be an exclusion on their policies. That said, a lot of the stuff taken could be sold as 'salvage'. The salvage is the right (belongs to) the insurance co. in leiu of subrogation to a 3rd party. If the ins. co pays the claim the Ins. co gets to handle the salvage as they see fit. YMMV.

Edit: As far as the washed away, most stores keep an inventory for P&L. If a CAT adjuster walks into a store and sees the shelves bare, doors wide open and nothing left in the store, makes it kinda hard to claim, it just washed away.

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:02:48 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
The city was ordered evacuated. Looters "salvaging" anything are endangering the lives of rescuers.

Bullshit. If I decide to swim across the missippi river from St. Louis MO to East St. Louis, IL, the only life I'm endangering is my own. If someone decides I need rescuing and chooses to try, then they are endangering their life, not me.

I know you'll trot out the "duty" argument, but I still say bullshit. Every firefighter, officer, paramedic, etc makes a decision that the potential benefit is worth the risk to themselves when they place themselves in danger. They can refuse to do so if they decide otherwise. Yes, it might cost them their job, but that is another consequence of their decision.

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:03:00 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
These stores are going to *maybe* get repaid by insurance. Living in a flood plain and encountering an *act of God* could easly be an exclusion on their policies. That said, a lot of the stuff taken could be sold as 'salvage'. The salvage is the right (belongs to) the insurance co. in leiu of subrogation to a 3rd party. If the ins. co pays the claim the Ins. co gets to handle the salvage as they see fit. YMMV.

Add to that most people don't bother with flood insurance.

Falling waters (rain, exposed roof, etc.) are covered by your homeowner's insurance, but rising waters are only covered by flood insurance.

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:20:41 AM EDT

[#23]

If I recover my property it's salvage.

If I recover your property it's looting. Unless I have your prior permission.

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:21:49 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
If I recover my property it's salvage.

If I recover your property it's looting. Unless I have your prior permission.

+1

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:34:58 AM EDT

[#25]

Salvage is what is done after the threat has passed and order restored. Anything else is looting

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:37:10 AM EDT

[#26]

Salvaging is taking what is yours.

Looting is taking from others.

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:44:16 AM EDT

[#27]

You know, there is a body of law concerning salvage. IIRC, if your boat is stranded (stuck on a sand bar, etc) and someone throws you a line, they have some rights under the law of salvage. I don't know if it applies on fresh/brackish water as well as salt. Maybe those guys floating up and down Canal St (Canal Canal?) on inflatable mattresses could put on an eyepatch and be OK. YOHO!

Any hive legal beagles out there?

Posted: 9/1/2005 7:49:14 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
i just wish it had been more orderly ("orderly looting" yeah, right). i mean, if they'd had a couple of guys handing stuff out to folks according to their "need" it woulda looked a whole lot better on the news and you'd be hearing a lot less "fucking niggers!" around the country...

fucking .gov (fed and state) really dropped the frigging ball here.

How?
Is it the .gov's job to provide for people?

No thanks Comrade, I'll take care of myself.

Posted: 9/1/2005 8:07:57 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
You know, there is a body of law concerning salvage. IIRC, if your boat is stranded (stuck on a sand bar, etc) and someone throws you a line, they have some rights under the law of salvage. I don't know if it applies on fresh/brackish water as well as salt. Maybe those guys floating up and down Canal St (Canal Canal?) on inflatable mattresses could put on an eyepatch and be OK. YOHO!

Any hive legal beagles out there?

HAhaha Blue water/ Brown water. Blue= salt. I took my level 7 adjuster license almost 15 years ago now. I barely remember shit about the law of the sea. Just don't throw your stuff overboard.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Where do you draw the line between SALVAGE and LOOTING?

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