In the interests of correcting some of the ignorance about warrant services diplayed in several threads, I will explain how a drug warrant is usually obtained in southern California law enforcement.

First an informant, typically a neighbor will complain about a house on their street they believe is dealing drugs.  Officers will do surveillance on that house in an attempt to discredit or confirm the informants allegations. During this phase you are looking for indicators of narcotics related activity, trying to decide if the house is even worth the time.  If the informant appears credible the next step is "cold stops." That's stopping several people leaving the house and via consent searches or other lawfull searches finding the drugs they are carrying and arresting these buyers.  You then offer the buyer some consideration for his case if he is willing to make controlled buys from his supplier. Since most buyer will refuse, you may need to arrest a dozen or more before you find three that will flip.

Our policy is 3 controlled buys in 10 days.  The confidential informant(s) is searched, given cash with the serial numbers recorded, and sent into the target house.  Narcotics investigators never allow him out of their sight except when he is in the house.  He is then searched again after he exits the house and the drugs he purchased add to your probable caue for the search warrant. Based on those controlled buys we write a search warrant for the location of the buys. The warrant is not based on the initial informants complaint.  It's not based on the indicators of narcotics related activity observed early in the investigation.  It's not based on the verbal testimony of anonymous or confidential informants.  It's based on the controlled buys, the observations of the narcotics officer witnessing three drug buys from the someone inside the house.

The judge signs the warrant and it is served withen 20 days of the last buy.  If drugs are found in the house the person(s) inside are charged for the appropriate violation, either simple possession or possession for sales. They are only prosecutred for the drugs found during the search, they are never prosecuted for the drugs they sold to the confidential informat during the controlled buys or prior to the cold stops.

The method stays the same whether you are buying stolen guns, drugs, stolen cars, ect.

In my area, anyone claiming that a warrant was written on the verbal testimony of an anonymous informant is either simply ignorant of the process or lying.

Thanks for the info.

Allthough you forgot the part about shooting the dog.

Quoted: In my area, anyone claiming that a warrant was written on the verbal testimony of an anonymous informant is either simply ignorant of the process or lying.

is that set in stone or can there be special circumstances for any reason?

Quoted: Quoted: In my area, anyone claiming that a warrant was written on the verbal testimony of an anonymous informant is either simply ignorant of the process or lying. is that set in stone or can there be special circumstances for any reason?

Even sworn statements by an anonymous informant is wortless, no judge would sign off on a warrant even partially based on such "probable cause."  However the media often confuses the controlled buys of confidential informants with tips provided by "anonymous" informants, hense the confusion.

wow.  I learned something useful on a Friday night ARFcom session.  

Will wonders never cease?

Quoted: Thanks for the info. Allthough you forgot the part about shooting the dog.

And about how they end up at the wrong house.


 Just kidding.  Thank you for the post.  Sounds like a lot of leg-work.

So in YOUR Hood , If I want to screw with my neighbor and I just say I "think" they're selling
Drugs , the police will do surveillance  ?

Must eat up a lot of man Hours

Are the street addresses in really small print?    

Quoted: Are the street addresses in really small print?

After all that surveilance they get a little cross eyed.  All it takes is one typo on the warrant. 133 vs 123 1st street and they end up next door.  Of course if we factor in dyslexia you could get 321 and raid a house 2 blocks away.

Quoted: Are the street addresses in really small print?

Or handwritten?  The only one I've gotten to look at, admittedly years ago, was handwritten by someone with very poor handwriting.  It's very easy to understand how it was misread.z

Quoted: Quoted: Are the street addresses in really small print?     Or handwritten?  The only one I've gotten to look at, admittedly years ago, was handwritten by someone with very poor handwriting.  It's very easy to understand how it was misread.z

 A search warrant with fill in blanks?

NO WAY!

AR15fan, when the warrant is served, how do you insure that the correct house is raided?



(Blank warrants?  If an officer is in possession of a blank warrant, signed by a judge, he AND the judge should go to prison for a very long time.)

Our process in Texas is about the same, but you can halve or quarter most of the time frames. There are also several other investigative avenues that can lead to the same result, without divulging sources and methods.

As to "how do we get the correct house" in our state, the description of the building to be searched is in decribed EXACTING detail in the first couple of paragraphs of the warrant, and we started putting an actual digital photo in the warrant. Judges like pretty pictures. It will be something like this:

"The building is a single-story residential building with white limestone brick on the North, East and west sides and unknown composition gray siding on the south or back side. The house has gray trim, a green garage door, a green front door and a tan compsition roof. The house is identified as 123 Main Street by the numbers "123" on the trim by the front door, on the mailbox and painted on the curb by the driveway. The residence is also established as 123 Main Street by water utility bills, by municipal property tax records and through Dispatch GPS records maintained by the Police Department and updated regularly by City Planning."

The case agent is either on the raid team (for most dope warrants) or is on the surveillance/cover team if SWAT is hitting the place. The point and Team Leader for SWAT usually do a couple of drive-bys before the mission to familarize themselves, and everyone on the raid team sees photos of the building. Anymore, we include high-quality overhead photos, printouts from CAD (our municipal planning stuff is usually detailed enough that we can get an overhead map of most neighborhoods to plan tactics for even "milk-run" calls all over the in-car computer) and photos that are recent enough to have pictures of the vehicles in the driveway that are there when the officers arrive to serve the warrant. There are other things we can do to make sure we get the right place, but again, sources and methods.

We are pretty detailed and meticulous on raid planning, and everyone who does this SHOULD be. The standards for obtaining search warrants are pretty rigid everywhere, and if they aren't appellate courts and civil courts can and will be harsh. We have Risk managers and lawyers the same as everyone else, and they get all queasy if their local LE folks aren't doing search warrants the right way.

As a side note, the vast majority of our "big" drug cases come from single calls, with patrol or Narcotics officers following up by going to the place in question, knocking on the door, and talking to people. No warrants involved.

Quoted: We are pretty detailed and meticulous on raid planning, and everyone who does this SHOULD be. The standards for obtaining search warrants are pretty rigid everywhere, and if they aren't appellate courts and civil courts can and will be harsh. We have Risk managers and lawyers the same as everyone else, and they get all queasy if their local LE folks aren't doing search warrants the right way.

Imagine the queasy feeling the residents of the neighborhood that had the wrong door kicked in.  "Shit that could have been my house".

Apparently the standards for obtaining the warrant are not the issue, it's the execution team that's the f'ing problem.  Why, oh why, after years of at least one wrongful entry every month or so in the US, some resulting in innocent deaths, hasn't this been solved?  

Start prosecuting cops for busting down the wrong door with some hard time attached (especially in the case where they murder an innocent homeowner) and the problem will correct itself.  

Done ranting now.

Quoted: Quoted: We are pretty detailed and meticulous on raid planning, and everyone who does this SHOULD be. The standards for obtaining search warrants are pretty rigid everywhere, and if they aren't appellate courts and civil courts can and will be harsh. We have Risk managers and lawyers the same as everyone else, and they get all queasy if their local LE folks aren't doing search warrants the right way. Imagine the queasy feeling the residents of the neighborhood that had the wrong door kicked in.  "Shit that could have been my house". Apparently the standards for obtaining the warrant are not the issue, it's the execution team that's the f'ing problem.  Why, oh why, after years of at least one wrongful entry every month or so in the US, some resulting in innocent deaths, hasn't this been solved?   Start prosecuting cops for busting down the wrong door with some hard time attached (especially in the case where they murder an innocent homeowner) and the problem will correct itself.   Done ranting now.

The better solution is to get rid of the drug war. End drug prohibition. That would solve this problem and a lot of others, too.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We are pretty detailed and meticulous on raid planning, and everyone who does this SHOULD be. The standards for obtaining search warrants are pretty rigid everywhere, and if they aren't appellate courts and civil courts can and will be harsh. We have Risk managers and lawyers the same as everyone else, and they get all queasy if their local LE folks aren't doing search warrants the right way. Imagine the queasy feeling the residents of the neighborhood that had the wrong door kicked in.  "Shit that could have been my house". Apparently the standards for obtaining the warrant are not the issue, it's the execution team that's the f'ing problem.  Why, oh why, after years of at least one wrongful entry every month or so in the US, some resulting in innocent deaths, hasn't this been solved?   Start prosecuting cops for busting down the wrong door with some hard time attached (especially in the case where they murder an innocent homeowner) and the problem will correct itself.   Done ranting now. The better solution is to get rid of the drug war. End drug prohibition. That would solve this problem and a lot of others, too.

Yah, lets get rid of problems by ignoring them. Fact is many many other unsolved crimes are solved in these types of arrests such as stolen property recovered and murders solved. And lets not ignore the fact that these assholes sell drugs for the sole reason of it being illegal. That's why they make the money. If drugs were legal they would move on to someother illegal business venture because they do not respect our countries laws and are out to make an easy buck no matter the cost. Once a POS always a POS.

Thanks AR15fan, for the informative post.

Thanks AR 15fan for the info.
Can anyone explain/guess how the NJ raid screwed up if they have similar protocols in place?
Did someone just ignore policy?

Rich V

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my area, anyone claiming that a warrant was written on the verbal testimony of an anonymous informant is either simply ignorant of the process or lying. is that set in stone or can there be special circumstances for any reason? Even sworn statements by an anonymous informant is wortless, no judge would sign off on a warrant even partially based on such "probable cause."  However the media often confuses the controlled buys of confidential informants with tips provided by "anonymous" informants, hense the confusion.

Sounds like Southern CA judges require more evidence, for a drug warrant, than the .gov did, to invade Iraq!!!  

Quoted: They are only prosecutred for the drugs found during the search, they are never prosecuted for the drugs they sold to the confidential informat during the controlled buys or prior to the cold stops.

If it goes federal they take into account the previous amounts as well and sentence accordingly
(or so I've heard)

Quoted: So in YOUR Hood , If I want to screw with my neighbor and I just say I "think" they're selling Drugs , the police will do surveillance  ? Must eat up a lot of man Hours

Not really, if they are moving any significant quantity watching the pad a couple hours over the course of a few nights is enough to confirm drug related activity or rule out a false claim.

I like the part where you follow people and LOOK for them to make some violation, then lie to them why you stopped them, and in turn look for something else other then the reason you pulled them over to begin with.

Quoted: AR15fan, when the warrant is served, how do you insure that the correct house is raided?

That warrant includesd a physical description of the premises, such as "Tan single story home with attached garage, brown trim, and front door facing east."  Also the officer who wrote the warrant and witnessed the controled buys leads the team that serves the warrant.

Quoted: I like the part where you follow people and LOOK for them to make some violation, then lie to them why you stopped them, and in turn look for something else other then the reason you pulled them over to begin with.

That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull.

Quoted: I like the part where you follow people and LOOK for them to make some violation, then lie to them why you stopped them, and in turn look for something else other then the reason you pulled them over to begin with.

Yeah, me too.  I think we should all wait at the police station, sitting in our parked cars, waiting for all the drug dealers and such to turn themselves in.

Quoted: Quoted: I like the part where you follow people and LOOK for them to make some violation, then lie to them why you stopped them, and in turn look for something else other then the reason you pulled them over to begin with. That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull.

Exactly. You are looking at the vehicle because it is involved in suspicous activity. You make the stop because it doesn't have a front license plate, it failed to signal a turn and the driver isn't wearing a seat belt, which is what you tell them when you stop them. There just "happens" to be a K9 unit nearby, and things follow their logical conclusion.

The USSC says it is legal, and we don't have to play fair with criminals, just follow the rules.

Quoted: That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull.

I know it is lawful, but you are stopping people based on a lie.  And then you get upset if they lie to you.

That's the problem.

Quoted: The USSC says it is legal, and we don't have to play fair with criminals, just follow the rules.

So, before you even stop them you are already convinced they are criminals?

WOW!

Quoted:  A search warrant with fill in blanks? NO WAY!

They come in pre-signed stacks, very similar to post it notes.

Quoted: Quoted: That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull. I know it is lawful, but you are stopping people based on a lie.  And then you get upset if they lie to you. That's the problem.

I don't get upset.  Hell, I expect it.

Quoted: Quoted: That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull. I know it is lawful, but you are stopping people based on a lie.  And then you get upset if they lie to you. That's the problem.

Who gets upset about it? Druggies lie all the time.  It's standard criminal operating procedure.  I'd be a lot more shocked if they told the truth.

Quoted: Quoted: That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull. I know it is lawful, but you are stopping people based on a lie.  And then you get upset if they lie to you.

I expect crooks to lie to me.  In fact I assume they are lying if their lips are moving.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That called good investigative police work.  Google "pretext stop" sometime, it's entirely lawfull. I know it is lawful, but you are stopping people based on a lie.  And then you get upset if they lie to you. That's the problem. Who gets upset about it? Druggies lie all the time.

these arnt my pants...
I just found that on the ground...
My license is valid, i just forgot it...
He knows I have his car.
She loaned me that credit card.
I found that purse in the dumpter, i was going to turn it in.
I just barely got here...
I dont know his name, i just met him at an AA meeting.
I'm diabetic..
I have a prescription for that Vicodin.

Quoted: these arnt my pants... I just found that on the ground... My license is valid, i just forgot it... He knows I have his car. She loaned me that credit card. I found that purse in the dumpter, i was going to turn it in. I just barely got here... I dont know his name, i just met him at an AA meeting. I'm diabetic.. I have a prescription for that Vicodin.

As opposed to lying by cops that is so common that it has a name - "testilying".

Quoted: Quoted: these arnt my pants... I just found that on the ground... My license is valid, i just forgot it... He knows I have his car. She loaned me that credit card. I found that purse in the dumpter, i was going to turn it in. I just barely got here... I dont know his name, i just met him at an AA meeting. I'm diabetic.. I have a prescription for that Vicodin. As opposed to lying by cops that is so common that it has a name - "testilying".

Damn! that was a limp comeback.  I'll take it into consideration that it's still early on the left coast, but maybe you should ingest a little pick-me-up before returning to this thread.

Quoted: [  A search warrant with fill in blanks? NO WAY!

no shit.

Quoted: Damn! that was a limp comeback.  I'll take it into consideration that it's still early on the left coast, but maybe you should ingest a little pick-me-up before returning to this thread.

Search google. You will find all kinds of references to it. It is well-known. As for which lying is really more dangerous to society -- I think cops lying takes the cake for that.

How about policies for 'no-knock' warrants?  How do those differ?

Quoted: How about policies for 'no-knock' warrants?  How do those differ?

I have never done a no knock, in 13 years of doing this.  So I cant add any insight to that.

Quoted: Quoted: Damn! that was a limp comeback.  I'll take it into consideration that it's still early on the left coast, but maybe you should ingest a little pick-me-up before returning to this thread. Search google. You will find all kinds of references to it. It is well-known. As for which lying is really more dangerous to society -- I think cops lying takes the cake for that.

Just for grins, and probably because I have a table full of pistols in front of me and all is right with the world,  

I googled "Wolfman97 is full of Sh##T."  14 pages of returns.

Now if you will excuse me,  I need more CLP.

BTW:  I've never done a "no-knock" either.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Damn! that was a limp comeback.  I'll take it into consideration that it's still early on the left coast, but maybe you should ingest a little pick-me-up before returning to this thread. Search google. You will find all kinds of references to it. It is well-known. As for which lying is really more dangerous to society -- I think cops lying takes the cake for that. Just for grins, and probably because I have a table full of pistols in front of me and all is right with the world,   I googled "Wolfman97 is full of Sh##T."  14 pages of returns. Now if you will excuse me,  I need more CLP. BTW:  I've never done a "no-knock" either.

I see your problem, an inability to spell. Let me give you just one example from my local area. A few years back they busted the entire LA Sheriff's narcotics squad for basically looting the public and lying about it. As one deputy testified, they seized fifteen million dollars cash in one year and not one cent of it was a legitimate bust.  Then there was the 1994 commission to investigate police corruption in New York that found it was standard procedure.

I also attended a conference of chiefs of police a few years back where one of them made a presentation that included references to it. Everyone present knew what it meant.

Not that this was any big secret from anyone but you.

I was listening to a police scanner a few weeks ago, and I'll throw this out as a different scenereo.

Drug deal goes bad.  Lots of yelling/screaming.

Neighbor calls the cops.

Neighbor still on the phone while police are on their way.

Dealer pulls a knife, stabs buyer in the leg.
How the hell a person stabs another in the leg when both are standing, I don't understand.

Neighbor is relaying all of this to dispatcher, who is informing the police over the radio.

Buyer runs away.

Police arrive on scene and swarm the area.  

Dealer is confronted outside, with weapon.

That gave credibility to the neighbor's call.

Neighbor pointed to the apartment that the buyer ran to.

Police radioed in and asked permission to enter without a warrant.

A minute later, dispatch said the shift commander said to enter on the grounds that they
were there to provide aid to injured person who might not be able to communicate.  

Police bust the door down, and take buyer/stabbing victom into custody, and take him to
the local hospital.  

Since buyer was stabbed, this gave them probable cause to enter seller's house.

Nothing more was said about that.  They probably went to a different channel used by our
"crime scene unit", or "drug task force", that I don't usually monitor.

Funnier yet is that 20 minutes later, dispatcher calls out to officers to expidite themselves to
the hospital, and to make sure each officer had a Taser with them.
The buyer/stabbing victom was getting agressive towards hospital staff.
(I didn't know my city's police had Tasers)

I was sitting on the edge of my seat, but nothing more was said about that either.

I'm sure that once the police had entered the buyer/stabbing victom's home, they proceeded
to take inventory of things with which to build a case against him, or to use to persuade him to
help build a case against the seller.

I'm not sure how I feel about it.    If an officer sees me hit my thumb with a hammer, they
could use the same reasoning to bust in my door and "look around" while rendering aid.

I've said it before, nobody but NOBODY is as clean as a whistle.  
Everyone has something in their home that can be construed as illegal.

Quoted: Thanks for the information. I've got a phone call to make. Apparently the locals set up on the two families of fools renting around the corner selling dope about a year ago now. They got spotted pretty quickly sitting in a panel van by the home owners and I'm sure even by the dopers and their six or eight kids. But there was some good of it as things have settled down a whole bunch as they've lowered the amount of traffic coming in and out. I was always in fear that their business customers would run over one of the kids in this otherwise quite neighborhood. Dope attracts just the most intellegent people and the best drivers. The dealers now sell at the local indoor swap meet about three blocks away. The primer color beater Camero drives in front and checks things out or takes the money. The primer colored beater Jeep follows a minute or two later with the dope from what I can gather. They nearly always return together. They've turned down the volume of their music and are driving a bit slower and more careful now - trying to avoid that pretext stop probably. After swap meet hours they use to have their customers park up and down the block and the kids would walk up and do business. This spring there was a shooting right outside my neighbor's door. The doper's eldest son took a .22 LR bullet from a pistol in the belly when something went wrong with a sale. Since then I've been walking around with Mr. 1911A1 in my pants after dark looking for more customers. I've talked with the other five neighbors living around me to encourage them to leave their lights on at night and to keep an eye out for stranger's cars. I found one car parked across the street that didn't belong but when they saw me coming toward them they started up and took off. I figure the police have better things to do on the bad side of town so the good people have got to do a bit to act as the eyes and ears for them. Dope sucks.

Prohibition sucks worse. Your note sounds just like the kinds of complaints that were common during alcohol prohibition.

Quoted: I like the part where you follow people and LOOK for them to make some violation, then lie to them why you stopped them, and in turn look for something else other then the reason you pulled them over to begin with.

I lived in a duplex for 12 years.
One of the upstairs tenants was some kind of a dealer go-between.
It took my wife and I a while to figure out what was going on, but we finally saw a pattern.

We actually followed him a few times to see what was going on.

Buyers would come over, and sample some dope.

They would all leave, and go to a gas station a few blocks away where my neighbor would
make a phone call.  Then they would leave and go to a house.  And it wasn't just one house
every time.  In fact, we never saw them go to the same house twice.

I called the local authorities, and told them what was going on.

They said and did pretty much exactly what AR15fan said.
But they also asked for my help.  They had makes/models of cars that they saw
pull up front, and they asked me to get license plate numbers.  

It wasn't until much later I found out they didn't want to bust my neighbor.
They didn't even want to bust the buyers, or the people at the houses where the
actual buys were being made.  They were trying to get enough information to bust the
main supplier.  

Then one night there was a drive-by and a bullet went through my livingroom.

The police told me it was directed towards the guy upstairs.

The next night they pulled my neighbor over as he was driving away, and found
pot in his pocket.  He was arrested, and released the next day.
He moved out the next night.  The police asked if I could tell where he moved to,
because they still wanted to monitor his traffic.

The officer that arrested him told me he was parked down the street in an unmakred car,
waiting for my neighbor to leave.  As soon as my neighbor pulled away, the cop followed him.
And as any cop will tell you, a typical person can't drive a block without making some kind
of error that can get them pulled over.

On the one hand, I felt like I was being used, but on the other hand, it was pretty damn
fun to "act" like I was doing survalience.

Quoted: Sounds like Southern CA judges require more evidence, for a drug warrant, than the .gov did, to invade Iraq!!!

umm, we were watching Iraq with satellites and spies for many years before we invaded.

Quoted: Quoted: Sounds like Southern CA judges require more evidence, for a drug warrant, than the .gov did, to invade Iraq!!!   umm, we were watching Iraq with satellites and spies for many years before we invaded.

Ummmmm, then how would you explain the complete absence of anything they claimed was there? Seems to me that, if there had been a warrant, somebody would look pretty foolish for that one. (But that is really another thread.)

Quoted: Quoted: How about policies for 'no-knock' warrants?  How do those differ? I have never done a no knock, in 13 years of doing this.  So I cant add any insight to that.

Do you ever see or hear of the "semi-knock" raids? Where they technically knock, but as softly as possible at 3am when everyone's sleeping.

Quoted:
AR15fan, when the warrant is served, how do you insure that the correct house is raided?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That warrant includesd a physical description of the premises, such as "Tan single story home with attached garage, brown trim, and front door facing east." Also the officer who wrote the warrant and witnessed the controled buys leads the team that serves the warrant.



I was hoping you'd say that... "the officer who wrote the warrant and witnessed the controled buys leads the team that serves the warrant."

Then how do some of these raids go bad (wrong house)?

I remember when, many years ago, door kicked on a house a block over from where I lived.  The warrant said "123 N. Maple" (for exampe) and they hit 123 S. Maple.  They were on the wrong end of town.

This can't happen (or would be very nearly impossible) if "the officer who wrote the warrant and witnessed the controled buys leads the team that serves the warrant."