"Found some rare coins I think I'll have the mint check them out for me"

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - "Found some rare coins I think I'll have the mint check them out for me"

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:32:33 PM EDT

Mint confiscates valuable coin find
Aug 25, 2005, 23:13 GMT
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http://news.monstersandcritics.com/northamerica/article_1043823.php/Mint_confiscates_valuable_coin_find

PHILADELPHIA, PA, United States (UPI) -- The U.S. Mint seized 10 "double eagle" $20 gold coins, among the rarest and most valuable coins in the world, from a Philadelphia shop owner who found them.

The coins vanished from the mint in the mid-1930s and apparently were hidden for decades among the possessions of a Philadelphia jeweler, Israel Switt, who died in 1990.

Switt`s daughter, Joan S. Langbord, who now runs the store, recently found the coins and turned them over to the Mint to check their authenticity -- only to see them confiscated by Acting Mint Director David Lebryk, the Philadelphia Inquirer said Thursday.

Langborn is suing the Mint to get the coins back.

The value of the double eagles minted in 1933, none of which went into circulation, is almost beyond calculation. A single double eagle, the only one ever legally sold, was auctioned at Sotheby`s/Stack`s in 2002 for $7.59 million, the highest price ever paid for a coin.

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oops

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:34:31 PM EDT

[#1]

That's some fucking BS right there, I hope his lawyer rapes the shit out of the mint

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:35:33 PM EDT

[#2]

So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:37:45 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Yup. They will use probably try and use eminent domain as their basis for seizing the coins

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:37:50 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:38:02 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
That's some fucking BS right there, I hope his lawyer rapes the shit out of the mint

+1

Bad on him for turning them all over, though.

Kind of like the story about finding the ~~three~~ machine guns in the woods, and turning ~~them~~ it over to .gov for the reward.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:39:21 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing if you just had 70 million taken from you.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:41:24 PM EDT

[#7]

Theres wrong, and then theres Fucking Retarded. (yes in caps!)

Sue the bastard. I hope for her sake she took awesome detailed pictures of the coins.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:42:21 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing if you just had 70 million taken from you.

So it is ok for me to come over to your house, steal your shit, then bring it back to you to figure out how much it is worth. And you are just going to give it back to me afterwards

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:44:04 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I thought that in the US the government had the burden of proof to show that a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Until the government can PROVE, with evidence, that the coins were stolen, then I will say what they did wasn't steal themselves. Otherwise, I see it as yet another unjust government act.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:46:25 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I thought that in the US the government had the burden of proof to show that a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Until the government can PROVE, with evidence, that the coins were stolen, then I will say what they did wasn't steal themselves. Otherwise, I see it as yet another unjust government act.

Reading is fundamental.

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:52:05 PM EDT

[#11]

More...

Clinton News Network

"The Mint contends Switt obtained a cache of the gold coins from his connections at the Mint just before they were to be reduced to bullion in 1937.

Switt admitted in 1944 that he had sold nine Double Eagle coins, but he was not charged in connection with those transactions, according to the Mint."

Posted: 8/25/2005 8:55:18 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I thought that in the US the government had the burden of proof to show that a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Until the government can PROVE, with evidence, that the coins were stolen, then I will say what they did wasn't steal themselves. Otherwise, I see it as yet another unjust government act.

Reading is fundamental.

Funny, you seem to be siding with the government's actions quite staunchly. Perhaps someone besides you or I would see why I would draw the conclusion that you believed them to be stolen and the government just in its actions.

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:01:26 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I thought that in the US the government had the burden of proof to show that a person is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Until the government can PROVE, with evidence, that the coins were stolen, then I will say what they did wasn't steal themselves. Otherwise, I see it as yet another unjust government act.

Reading is fundamental.

Funny, you seem to be siding with the government's actions quite staunchly. Perhaps someone besides you or I would see why I would draw the conclusion that you believed them to be stolen and the government just in its actions.

From the article

The coins vanished from the mint in the mid-1930s and apparently were hidden for decades among the possessions of a Philadelphia jeweler, Israel Switt, who died in 1990.

According to the article the "vanished". And the guy hid them for decades. Why would he be hiding them?

If they were legitimately his, then I agree with you. If they are not his, as the quoted portion would lead me to believe, then too bad for him.

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:03:38 PM EDT

[#14]

Stolen property has been returned to the rightful owner. Who in their right mind could argue with that? Imagine if it was property that was stolen from your family and you were the rightful heir.

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:20:08 PM EDT

[#15]

those coins were stolen, there is no question about that........since they were never put into circulation, and were taken out of the mint .. I don't know if there is a staute of limiation for keeping stolen property........that's up to the courts to decide. but if they are ever given back, I suspect that a huge portion of the money from the sale of them, will go to the lawyers. the only person that will come out on top from this will be the lawyers.

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:25:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Did Tom Noe find them? Or Governor Taft?

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:45:40 PM EDT

[#17]

you can thank that great socialist, FDR, for this
he signed a law banning ownership of gold coins back in the 30s
that law is probably why the coins went into hiding to begin with

Posted: 8/25/2005 9:54:49 PM EDT

[#18]

guess all the guns stolen from the government years ago should be recalimed too eh?

Posted: 8/25/2005 10:01:43 PM EDT

[#19]

A bit of historical information on this subject. When all gold coins were ordered to be surrendered by U.S. citizens that did not stop the U.S. Government from using the coins to pay foreign debts. In fact, thousands of Double Eagles (that means two $10 coins-- an Eagle being worth 10 bucks) were sent to Europe because they did not want to accept paper money back during our civil war. Since the Europeans didn't know for sure who was going to win (north or the south) they wanted gold. Most collectible grade coins came back to the U.S. from Europe because is was bullion and was never passed in general circulation. That's why the Double Eagles are in such pristine condition-- they weren't carried around in people's pockets. They had been stashed away in Europe's bank vaults.

Thought you'd like to know.

Lawdog

Posted: 8/25/2005 10:05:19 PM EDT

[#20]

Perhaps he was hiding them because he knew their extraordinary value? Perhaps he just forgot about them?

He wasn't charged in 1944 for selling coins he admitted to selling.

This case seems to stink of government acting first and asking questions later. Of course we know the government never makes mistakes or oversteps its bounds.

Posted: 8/25/2005 10:29:50 PM EDT

[#21]

does a "statute of limitations" apply in this case?
just wondering

Posted: 8/25/2005 10:57:56 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

That's some fucking BS right there, I hope his lawyer rapes the shit out of the mint

Did you guys read the post??????????????
They disappeared from the mint back in the mid 1930's. That means they are stolen property. Property of the U.S. They rightfully siezed thier property back. Good thing the jewler is dead or he might have ended up in Federal Prison!

Posted: 8/25/2005 11:14:33 PM EDT

[#23]

wonder if the daughter is second guessing herself in any way...

Posted: 8/25/2005 11:17:14 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
does a "statute of limitations" apply in this case?
just wondering

I don't believe there is a statute of limitations on stolen property. Stolen property doesn't get "unstolen" with time. If the rightful owner of property that was stolen from him can substantiate his claim, then by all means the rightful owner should reclaim his property.

If we substitute "Joe Citizen" for "US Mint" in the article, I'd say no one hear would deny "Joe Citizen" the right to reclaim his property.

Posted: 8/25/2005 11:40:47 PM EDT

[#25]

Uncirculated, meaning they were never released by the mint. These coins were US government property and were returned to the government. I would fully expect them to be seized. I however think the .gov would do well to at least give her back one or two as a reward for the return of stolen property. She obviously did not steal them herself nor did she obtain them illegally therefore a reward for return would be justified.

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:07:06 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Uncirculated, meaning they were never released by the mint. These coins were US government property and were returned to the government. I would fully expect them to be seized. I however think the .gov would do well to at least give her back one or two as a reward for the return of stolen property. She obviously did not steal them herself nor did she obtain them illegally therefore a reward for return would be justified.

"uncirculated" is mostly a term used in nusmismatics on the condition of a coin. If you get a brand new roll of pennies from the bank, they're "uncirculated" even though they circulted from the mint to the feds to the bank to you.

She probably deserves a reward, but not $7-14 million worth.

I agree with some of the comments above, they were hidden because they are contraband, the Statue of Limitations (funny how the abbreviation is SOL

) applies to the crime not the stolen items.

I for one would love to see the coins put on public display. The 1933 Double Eagle is right up with the 1913 Liberty nickle as the Holy Grail of US coins

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:29:04 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the US government again acts with draconian and authoritarian audacity and steals a citizen's property. Nothing really new.

Sounds like they were stolen from the mint, and if so weren't really this guys property to begin with.

I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing if you just had 70 million taken from you.

Sounds like you have no integrity.

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:35:41 AM EDT

[#28]

Ok, in that he knew he broke the law, and she knew she had stoled property. She would have probably been best served ecomically by going on the lamb. That said, .gov recovered stolen property - end of story. She covererd her self by turning in known stolen property - that should keep her out of prision. If the .gov wanted to be kind and generious - perhaps they could exchange them for legal coins (say 32 dge) At liest they did not offer her face value on them.

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:41:15 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
A bit of historical information on this subject. When all gold coins were ordered to be surrendered by U.S. citizens that did not stop the U.S. Government from using the coins to pay foreign debts. In fact, thousands of Double Eagles (that means two $10 coins-- an Eagle being worth 10 bucks) were sent to Europe because they did not want to accept paper money back during our civil war. Since the Europeans didn't know for sure who was going to win (north or the south) they wanted gold. Most collectible grade coins came back to the U.S. from Europe because is was bullion and was never passed in general circulation. That's why the Double Eagles are in such pristine condition-- they weren't carried around in people's pockets. They had been stashed away in Europe's bank vaults.

Thought you'd like to know.

Lawdog

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:52:12 AM EDT

[#30]

We're from the government. We're here to help.

Posted: 8/26/2005 4:52:59 AM EDT

[#31]

Uncle Sam might not charge her with a crime, but they're never giving back the stolen property.

Kharn

Posted: 8/26/2005 5:12:33 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
you can thank that great socialist, FDR, for this
he signed a law banning ownership of gold coins back in the 30s
that law is probably why the coins went into hiding to begin with

Except that its been legal for citizens to own gold again now for over 20 years. If it wasn't so, the Mint would not be offering the gold coins they currently sell.

Posted: 8/26/2005 6:37:34 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
you can thank that great socialist, FDR, for this
he signed a law banning ownership of gold coins back in the 30s
that law is probably why the coins went into hiding to begin with

Except that its been legal for citizens to own gold again now for over 20 years. If it wasn't so, the Mint would not be offering the gold coins they currently sell.

but it's undoubtedly why the coins originally got taken, and why that particular coin is worth so much as a collectors item

Posted: 8/26/2005 6:44:03 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
guess all the guns stolen from the government years ago should be recalimed too eh?

If it can be verified that they are stolen, why shouldn't they? How about I steal something from you and just keep it?

Posted: 8/26/2005 6:51:21 AM EDT

[#35]

There was exactly 1 1933 Double Eagle that was ever legally available for sale, and this did not occur until 2001 after a lengthy legal battle. The U.S. Mint NEVER released a single one prior to 2001. The only coins in circulation WERE STOLEN FROM THE MINT.

Ms. Langbord may be able to use this earlier case as precedent to get the Mint to allow the coins into circulation. The coin reverted to the Mint's posession, and was subsequently sold at auction by the Mint. Stephen Fenton, the coin dealer who had tried to sell the illegal coin to an undercover Secret Service agent, got half the selling price (almost $3.8 million).

An interesting side note: The lone Double Eagle was moved out of the World Trade Center to Fort Knox less than six weeks before 9/11.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - "Found some rare coins I think I'll have the mint check them out for me"

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