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Posted: 8/17/2005 2:39:48 PM EDT

www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/17/wild.america.ap/index.html

Lions and elephants on the Great Plains?

DENVER, Colorado (AP) -- If a group of prominent ecologists have their way, lions and elephants could someday be roaming the Great Plains of North America.

The idea of transplanting African wildlife to this continent is being greeted with gasps and groans from other scientists and conservationists who recall previous efforts to relocate foreign species halfway around the world, often with disastrous results.

But the proposal's supporters say it could help save some species from extinction in Africa, where protection is spotty and habitats are vanishing. They say the relocated animals could also restore the biodiversity in North America to a condition closer to what it was before humans overran the landscape more than 10,000 years ago.

Most modern African species never lived on the American prairie, the scientists acknowledge. But some of their biological cousins like mastodons, camels and saber-toothed cats, roamed for more than 1 million years alongside antelope and herds of bison until Ice Age glaciers retreated and humans started arriving.

The rapid extinction of dozens of large mammal species in North America -- perhaps due to a combination of climate change and overhunting -- triggered a landslide of changes to the environmental landscape. Relocating large animals to vast ecological parks and private reserves would begin to repair the damage, proponents say, while offering new ecotourism opportunities to a withering region.

The scientists' plan appears in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. It is attracting interest from some influential circles, including CNN founder Ted Turner, America's largest private landowner. He owns huge ranches in several states to support his commercial bison operation and personal conservation initiatives.

But the plan is also generating criticism on both sides of the conservation debate.

"It is not restoration to introduce animals that were never here," said University of Washington anthropologist Donald K. Grayson. "Why introduce Old World camels and lions when there are North American species that could benefit from the same kind of effort?"

Others wonder whether people would support African lions making a home on the range, given the opposition to the reintroduction of native wolves in the rural West.

"Just when you think the world has gotten as weird as it can get, something like this comes along," said Steve Pilcher, executive vice president of the Montana Stockgrowers Association.

"I wonder how many calves or lambs it would take to feed a family of lions for a month?" Pilcher mused. "We sort of know what it takes for wolves, but something tells me we would be in a whole new ball game."

Some wildlife conservationists said the idea would further damage the prospects of both threatened species and Africa's hopes for sustainable economic development.

"Such relocations would affect future tourism opportunities for Africa," said Elizabeth Wamba, the East Africa spokeswoman for the International Fund for Animal Welfare in Nairobi, Kenya. "The welfare of the animals would have been reduced by transporting and exposing them to different eco-climatic conditions."

Critics also point to calamitous relocations of foreign species in Australia. Rabbits brought from Europe swarmed across parts of the Outback, and noxious cane toads brought from South America to control bugs in sugar cane fields killed native wildlife.

The authors of the new plan say they are not discouraged.

"We are not saying this is going to be easy," said Cornell University ecologist Josh Donlan, the lead author of the proposal. "There are huge and substantial risks and obstacles."

The plan grew from a retreat at Turner's New Mexico ranch -- a 155,000-acre property in the foothills of the Gila Mountains that contains a mix of ecosystems ranging from desert grasslands to pine forests.

Ecologists are using the ranch to experiment with reintroducing the Bolson tortoise to the region. These 100-pound burrowers were once found across the Southwest, but now survive only in a corner of northern Mexico's Chihuahuan Desert.

The scientists' discussion expanded to consider long-extinct Pleistocene species that have modern counterparts elsewhere in the world.

For example, a larger American cheetah once stalked pronghorn on these lands, with both species evolving special features that enabled them to accelerate to 60 mph. Today, pronghorns rarely are chased, except by the occasional pickup truck.

In Africa, modern cheetahs are being exterminated as vermin, with fewer than 2,000 remaining in some countries. Relocation could help both species retain important traits, the plan's proponents say.

Other living species that are counterparts to Pleistocene-era animals in North America include wild horses and asses, Bactrian camels, elephants and lions.

Donlan concedes that lions would be a tough sell to Americans.

"Lions eat people," he said. "There has to be a pretty serious attitude shift on how you view predators."

F'n Enviromentalist Morons.

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:41:37 PM EDT

[#1]

by the same idiots that brought us KUDZU!

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:42:44 PM EDT

[#2]

Good reson to get that .50 now.

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:44:56 PM EDT

[#3]

I live here. I won't be alone when I shoot every lion they put here. I don't give a DAMN what they want. Lions are no fun. There is a reason they are personified as a King. They are deadly to adults, kids, horses, cows, you name it.

Now I have 2 reasons for a .50

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:45:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Good reson to get that .50 now.

Hell Yeah!
An African safari right here in the good old USA!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:53:34 PM EDT

[#5]

Fruitcakes in action!

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:57:01 PM EDT

[#6]

Turn about is fair play. Tie this brainfart of an idea up in the courts because of "environmental impact studies" or better yet, feed the envirowhakos to the lions.

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:58:53 PM EDT

[#7]

Same as the assholes protecting dangerous and/or nuisance species here already.

I'm not looking to wipe out an animal population, but if it causes me problems, I'm flinging lead.

Posted: 8/17/2005 2:59:53 PM EDT

[#8]

won't the lions feed on endagered species in that region?

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:04:21 PM EDT

[#9]

We get to become part of the food chain.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:09:26 PM EDT

[#10]

That is incredibly stupid.

Any properly trained wildlife biologist will tell you that exotic (non-native) species are not a good thing to have around or to introduce into an ecosystem.

You can analyze it all you want, and you may think you've covered every possible outcome, but you can never be sure of exactly what will happen.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:11:27 PM EDT

[#11]

That would be cool lol

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:15:20 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Good reson to get that .50 now.

Hell Yeah!
An African safari right here in the good old USA!!!!!!!!!

Big +1! Let um have their elephants just so long as we can have our elephant season!

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:16:06 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
by the same idiots that brought us KUDZU!

and the gypsy moth, multi-flora rose, tree-of-heaven.....

What a BAD idea it would be to have lions roaming around......fuck that is so stupid.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:26:46 PM EDT

[#14]

I can believe it.

Texas Parks and Wildlife (the state agency that basically oversees fish and game) has plans to repopulate bear here in East Texas.

So enjoy that tranquil walk in the woods, everybody.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:29:16 PM EDT

[#15]

Well shit, there go the buffalo...

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:33:34 PM EDT

[#16]

They say the relocated animals could also restore the biodiversity in North America to a condition closer to what it was before humans overran the landscape more than 10,000 years ago.

If humans and urban sprawl have overrun the landscape, where the fuck do these idots plan on releasing these animals?????

the quote above puts the entire article and argument in the trash. there is no need to read the entire thing.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:37:59 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/17/wild.america.ap/index.html
...
Most modern African species never lived on the American prairie, the scientists acknowledge. But some of their biological cousins like mastodons, camels and saber-toothed cats, roamed for more than 1 million years alongside antelope and herds of bison until Ice Age glaciers retreated and humans started arriving....

Fossilized lion remains found at the La Brea Tar Pits are almost indistinguishable from modern African lions. They were slightly larger.

..."Lions eat people," he said. "There has to be a pretty serious attitude shift on how you view predators."

I have no problem with people being eaten by lions.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:39:21 PM EDT

[#18]

Lets run this by P.E.T.A.

All I can come up with on this one is "Are these f*****s absolutely dog-shit nuts?"

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:42:07 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Same as the assholes protecting dangerous and/or nuisance species here already.

I'm not looking to wipe out an animal population, but if it causes me problems, I'm flinging lead.

Wouldn't it be funny if the animals had the same capability.

"I'm not looking to wipe out an human population, but if it causes me problems, I'm flinging lead."

Edit: not that I agree with the whole lions + america.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:45:07 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Same as the assholes protecting dangerous and/or nuisance species here already.

I'm not looking to wipe out an animal population, but if it causes me problems, I'm flinging lead.

Wouldn't it be funny if the animals had the same capability.

"I'm not looking to wipe out an human population, but if it causes me problems, I'm flinging lead."

Edit: not that I agree with the whole lions + america.

Look at the whole problem with wolves being re-introduced and protected, study it, them come back and try being a smartass.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:47:39 PM EDT

[#21]

Well when they get loose and start offing herds, or some unfortunate folks children....we'll have to ban lions, tigers, bears, and anything else that is carnivorous.

I've already got skunks, possum, spiders, cats and other homeless animals on my property due to the fact that they're building everywhere. It would be a wicked retarded idea to encroach a little more on the already established animals. For fuck sakes, people hit deer around here all the time. I'd hate to be the poor bastard who hits an elephant.

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:49:19 PM EDT

[#22]

Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

Dr. Ian Malcolm

Posted: 8/17/2005 3:51:15 PM EDT

[#23]

Shoot, shovel, and shut up.
Available in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum, and 458 Lott.

You will never be undergunned.

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:04:08 PM EDT

[#24]

But some of their biological cousins like mastodons, camels and saber-toothed cats, roamed for more than 1 million years alongside antelope and herds of bison until Ice Age glaciers retreated and humans started arriving.

So when are the Velociraptors coming up?
I want a quad .50 for those

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:10:03 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
won't the lions feed on endagered species in that region?

Yep and the human inhabitants too.

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:12:34 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

Dr. Ian Malcolm

"Jurassic park"

I was thinking the same thing.

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:18:11 PM EDT

[#27]

Let's see, I need to get my poor old brain around this. Scientists (mad or otherwise) have told us that the loss of a species, implicitly a change in the heirarchy, will upset the entire ecosystem. Would not the introduction of a completely new species have the same effect, especially if the species would be predatory? Is this project "science" or is it just a means to spend a grant , in effect playing at something which may be of interest to the "scientist" in question? Or, has it all been B.S., and these characters just tell everyone some nonsense, and testify solemnly in front of Congress, to get all sorts of restrictions because they thought it would be something to play at?

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:18:52 PM EDT

[#28]

I swear if someone brought a T-Rex back to life these dumb fuks would want it released into the wilds of Montana...

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:21:48 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I swear if someone brought a T-Rex back to life these dumb fuks would want it released into the wilds of Montana...

Where do I sign up for the hunting license

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:37:44 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
We get to become part of the food chain.

Guaranteed to have the full support of those humanity-hating self-sterilizing bastards at PETA, then.

Posted: 8/17/2005 4:44:28 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
cz-usa.com/images/products/multi/50.1.jpg
Shoot, shovel, and shut up.
Available in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Winchester Magnum, and 458 Lott.

You will never be undergunned.

Shoot, backhoe, and shut up.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:06:49 PM EDT

[#32]

Fuck that shit, we dont need anymore Africans.

However I wouldnt mind more illegals from south of the border.

How about more Jaguars instead.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:09:28 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Good reson to get that .50 now.

Hell Yeah!
An African safari right here in the good old USA!!!!!!!!!

If I were crazy rich I wouldnt mind having a large chunk of land with lots of wild animals like Chupacabras and whatnot, but its definately not something the US government should be funding.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:14:28 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I swear if someone brought a T-Rex back to life these dumb fuks would want it released into the wilds of Montana...

Only if we get to do stuff like release Albertasaurus' in Alberta and let the poor Canucks deal with it.

WE'RE the ones with the guns, remember.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:14:29 PM EDT

[#35]

What retards.

Don't they know the harm that foreign species cause an ecosystem. It wipes out native species!

And they call themselves scientists!?

If they try to bring any foreign african species here, I'll see to it they become extinct for the sake of our own wildlife.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:39:08 PM EDT

[#36]

Lions, Tigers, Elephants...in America...

Awesome! I can go on Safari in my neighborhood!!!!!!

Better get myself a 416 Rigby or 470 Capstick!

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:45:35 PM EDT

[#37]

Can we try this at Berkeley?

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:00:20 PM EDT

[#38]

1. Relocate large african animals to the US....so we can hunt them. Cheaper safaris for us!

2. Relocate US liberals to africa....so the totalitarian socialist rebels can hunt them. Good for us!

It's a win-win situation.

Exterminate activists.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:03:13 PM EDT

[#39]

Damn lion wouldn't last a day in chicago. It would be taxed to death and lied to by corrupt politicians. Beaten, robbed and raped in the hood. Then, end up at the local rib shack with some guy telling you that they are pork ribs.

Guaranteed that mofo would be on the first train back to the safari tellin' his other lion buddies how he got his ass ripped open in the city.

Posted: 8/18/2005 12:08:06 AM EDT

[#40]

Personally I'm reminded of the 1976 movie, "Hamps!".

In short, Arabian camels are brought in to a US Cavalry outfit to replace their horses in the American desert.

And what fallows is reasonably funny.

G-Rated, in case you’re wondering.

Posted: 8/18/2005 2:19:39 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Personally I'm reminded of the 1976 movie, "Hamps!".

In short, Arabian camels are brought in to a US Cavalry outfit to replace their horses in the American desert.

And what fallows is reasonably funny.

G-Rated, in case you’re wondering.

Humps

Posted: 8/18/2005 3:11:34 AM EDT

[#42]

Damn, Imagine having to gut, drag and hang an elephant!..............................Then there's the cut and wrap! That's a lot of freezer paper!

Posted: 8/18/2005 4:27:53 AM EDT

[#43]

Mmmmmm, sounds like some good eating!

Posted: 8/18/2005 10:30:22 AM EDT

[#44]

It's a great idea. I'd rather not visit the Dark Continent to see elephants in the wild. Lions will help keep the population of squirrel and backpacker under control.

Posted: 8/18/2005 10:42:59 AM EDT

[#45]

But the proposal's supporters say it could help save some species from extinction in Africa, where protection is spotty and habitats are vanishing

WHAT? WHAT!?!?!?! Habitats vanishing? From what?!?!?!?!?!? Industrial growth....Oh wait.. no.
Population growth?!?! Oh wait, the population of Africa is actually going to start DECLINING because of AIDS and starvation... Maybe it is over-zealous farming.......oh wait NOPE!

What the fuck? the lefty imbiciles need to go "back to africa"

Posted: 8/18/2005 10:58:04 AM EDT

[#46]

Oh, great-And I'm sure some long-haired dumb-ass hippie will live with the lions and sing to them and name them all and write a book about his experiences right up until the point he gets his hippy ass EATEN!!!

Posted: 8/18/2005 11:03:23 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Personally I'm reminded of the 1976 movie, "Hamps!".

In short, Arabian camels are brought in to a US Cavalry outfit to replace their horses in the American desert.

And what fallows is reasonably funny.

G-Rated, in case you’re wondering.

Humps

It's 'HAWMPS!', dammit.

us.imdb.com/title/tt0074614/

Posted: 8/18/2005 11:06:18 AM EDT

[#48]

On second thought, maybe we could use them to patrol the border w/Mexico. Once they tasted "illegal meat", perhaps they would like it enough to stay close to the border.

I wonder what a mexican stink pickle dropped by a lion would look like?