Hand to hand combat and telestocks?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hand to hand combat and telestocks?

Posted: 7/17/2001 10:35:29 AM EDT

I was watching the History channel the other night and they were showing the use of the m16 in hand to hand combat.

They had these drills with padded sticks with a red muzzle end and butt end. They then bashed the shit out of each other.

They also showed guys running up to dummy's and bashing them with the butt of their rifles.

All this got me thinking about telestocks and the durablity of regular A1 and A2 stocks. Obviously a telestock would be almost useless in a fight.

Was using the M16 to bash people concidered when the gun was designed?

Posted: 7/17/2001 10:46:01 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Was using the M16 to bash people concidered when the gun was designed?

View Quote

In hand to hand,you use whatever is available to you,but I never heard of the posible use of a rifle in buttstriking an oponent being "designed" into any of them.

Posted: 7/17/2001 10:49:41 AM EDT

[#2]

Remember, once you've busted that stock, for any reason, your AR15 or M16 is unfireable until repaired. You SHTF types should buy spare stocks.

Posted: 7/17/2001 10:57:40 AM EDT

[#3]

Regardless of telestock or not, it would be better to use the bayonet instead of the butt. Don't want to damage your rifle. I agree that the telestock would take away the butt strike option altogether but for some reason we still spent quite some time in the Marines doing our pugil-stick fights. Any marines remember the "bridge over troubled waters" at boot camp in San Diego, it was one of my favorites. I took down 2/3 of the other platoon before someone got me. Of course being an expert with the bo and many other martial arts weapons sure came in handy in the Marines.

Posted: 7/17/2001 11:09:38 AM EDT

[#4]

Originally Posted By Bobby Vincent:
Regardless of telestock or not, it would be better to use the bayonet instead of the butt. Don't want to damage your rifle. I agree that the telestock would take away the butt strike option altogether but for some reason we still spent quite some time in the Marines doing our pugil-stick fights. Any marines remember the "bridge over troubled waters" at boot camp in San Diego, it was one of my favorites. I took down 2/3 of the other platoon before someone got me. Of course being an expert with the bo and many other martial arts weapons sure came in handy in the Marines.

View Quote

Sounds like you had good workout!
Your D.I. must have been proud.

Posted: 7/17/2001 11:13:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
If you look in the FM's at the technique for assuming a hasty prone position, up to and including the M-14, the butt of the rifle was used to help break the force of the fall of the upper body. The M-16 FM's DO NOT use that technique, even with the solid butt-stock, let alone the Tele-Stock. Remember, once you've busted that stock, for any reason, your AR15 or M16 is unfireable until repaired. You SHTF types should buy spare stocks.

View Quote

I love the AR but push come to shove I will
choose the M1 Garrand or the M1A.
I recall some WWII footage showing soldiers
using their rifles as steps to get their guys over high walls. What a "battle axe!"

Posted: 7/17/2001 11:27:14 AM EDT

[#6]

1) Seperate lower from upper.
2) Use upper like a baseball bat to bludgeon opponent.

Posted: 7/17/2001 11:35:34 AM EDT

[#7]

Lordtrader, have you timed that maneuver under conditions of stress? [;)]

Posted: 7/17/2001 11:42:59 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Lordtrader, have you timed that maneuver under conditions of stress? [;)]

View Quote

Nope....Still in the R&D phase. Can't seem to find subjects that will report back after the encounter.

Posted: 7/17/2001 12:16:43 PM EDT

[#9]

I saw that epsiode too, and with the A2 stock, running up on someone on the ground, and hitting them with the bottom of the butt, with that metal piece hanging off the end (where the stap hangs) would fuck you up. That would crack some cheek bones and noses. Maybe evem take a eye out.
c-rock

Posted: 7/17/2001 12:26:18 PM EDT

[#10]

I didn't see it on the History Channel, it was Discovery (I think).

Showed soldiers using the M16A2 as a blunt instrument (bayonettings and buttstrokes). Surprised the heck out of me how hard they hit the dummies with the buttstock.

I didn't think the rifle could take that kind of abuse. Of course, it still isn't an M14...

Posted: 7/17/2001 12:29:46 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
...and with the A2 stock, running up on someone on the ground, and hitting them with the bottom of the butt, with that metal piece hanging off the end (where the stap hangs) would fuck you up. That would crack some cheek bones and noses. Maybe evem take a eye out...

View Quote

W H O A!!!!!!! Carefull!!!!!!

....next thing Brady and Co. will be after our buttstocks.

Don't give them any ideas. Don't let then ban our Butts!!

Zaz

{edit 'cause some HTML didn't work}

Posted: 7/17/2001 12:44:57 PM EDT

[#12]

I've always said the M16/AR15 family make a horable spear platform..During the Gulf war some Knife company was selling titamium poles 3 feet or so long with the end made to accept a bayonet and it hade a bayo lug on it as well.. I dont know if you can still buy them but it would be a lot better than a ar w/bayo in hand to hand...plus if I still have ammo Im shooting the poor bastard

Posted: 7/17/2001 12:45:21 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
If you look in the FM's at the technique for assuming a hasty prone position, up to and including the M-14, the butt of the rifle was used to help break the force of the fall of the upper body. The M-16 FM's DO NOT use that technique, even with the solid butt-stock, let alone the Tele-Stock. Remember, once you've busted that stock, for any reason, your AR15 or M16 is unfireable until repaired. You SHTF types should buy spare stocks.

View Quote

Sorry RAF, But I did my ARMY Basic in 1984 and we were taught to use the buttstock of our M16A1s to help break our fall. I would not want to try it with the telestock however.

Posted: 7/17/2001 1:17:16 PM EDT

[#14]

Forest, after having looked at the manuals, you are entirely correct. My apologies to the board for dispensing error for fact. I'll edit my original post. Thanks for correcting me.

Posted: 7/17/2001 2:35:41 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

W H O A!!!!!!! Carefull!!!!!!

....next thing Brady and Co. will be after our buttstocks.

Don't give them any ideas. Don't let then ban our Butts!!

Zaz

View Quote

And I always thought Brady and Co. were a bunch of buttstrokers themselves! [:O]

Posted: 7/17/2001 4:25:48 PM EDT

[#16]

In MOUT training, soldiers and marines are taught to boost others up to windows via the use their M16s and M4s. Two guys will hold opposite ends of a rifle, and the rest of the squad uses it as a step. This doesn't seem to damage the rifles.

-Troy

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hand to hand combat and telestocks?

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