Airguns the toughest on scopes ? SO says guy on radio show........

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Airguns the toughest on scopes ? SO says guy on radio show........

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:11:36 AM EDT

On the way in to my store a few moments ago, and I am listening to the hunting/shooting show on local AM radio. One of the hosts owns a gun store here locally and claimed that an airgun, and the way its recoil impulses, is harder on a scope than a .300WinMag.

He claimed the recoil from an airgun is a drawn out vibration rather than sharp, instant crack of a center or rim fire.

I'm not calling BS, but its on the tip of my toungue.

Thoughts ?

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:12:48 AM EDT

[#1]

I've heard that before. Dunno if it's true

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:20:16 AM EDT

[#2]

Don't raise the BS flag, do some reading. A spring engine air gun eats scopes for lunch. Their is recoil in two directions, most scopes are made to handle recoil in one direction only. I have a couple of spring engine air rifles.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:20:59 AM EDT

[#3]

It's true on spring operated airguns only , pneumatic or C02 guns don't need a
dual damped scope .

From an Airgun optics guide :

Scopes designed for firearms have optics anchored to handle the backward movement .
Recoil in a spring airgun is different than recoil in a firearm in the sense that it isn't only the amount of recoil that matters, but the direction of the recoil as well. Mainsprings cause an airgun to recoil backward and forward while firearms only recoil in a backward direction. It is this two-direction recoil that can cause damage to non-airgun rated scopes.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:24:17 AM EDT

[#4]

Learn sumpin new everyday.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:26:40 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
It's true on spring operated airguns only , pneumatic or C02 guns don't need a
dual damped scope .

From an Airgun optics guide :

Scopes designed for firearms have optics anchored to handle the backward movement .
Recoil in a spring airgun is different than recoil in a firearm in the sense that it isn't only the amount of recoil that matters, but the direction of the recoil as well. Mainsprings cause an airgun to recoil backward and forward while firearms only recoil in a backward direction. It is this two-direction recoil that can cause damage to non-airgun rated scopes.

Does the bolt slamming forward on an Ar15 or M14 not equal recoil in 2 direstions?

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:27:32 AM EDT

[#6]

A few links of interest.

www.network54.com/Forum/79537

www.straightshooters.com/index.html

www.aafta.org/

www.air-rifle.net/

Have fun!

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:28:30 AM EDT

[#7]

I threw a OK .22 scope that I had used for years on a .22 rifle with no problem on a 1000FPS Gamo pellet gun and the scope took a crap within 50 rounds. I do think that there are different recoil forces at work. [Was on a marlin model 60 for at least 10 years before I put it on the Gamo] I bought a airgun scope and have since put about 2 or 3 K thru it without a problem, or loss of zero. Just my personal 2 cents.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:30:23 AM EDT

[#8]

IIRC, air rifles recoil FORWARD and not backward...

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:33:00 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

One of the hosts owns a gun store here locally and claimed that an airgun, and the way its recoil impulses, is harder on a scope than a .300WinMag.

That's what I've heard as well. Since I never owned an airgun scope, I can't say. Kinda makes sense as far as kinetic energy goes but I'm sure as hell no scientist.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:40:19 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true on spring operated airguns only , pneumatic or C02 guns don't need a
dual damped scope .

From an Airgun optics guide :

Scopes designed for firearms have optics anchored to handle the backward movement .
Recoil in a spring airgun is different than recoil in a firearm in the sense that it isn't only the amount of recoil that matters, but the direction of the recoil as well. Mainsprings cause an airgun to recoil backward and forward while firearms only recoil in a backward direction. It is this two-direction recoil that can cause damage to non-airgun rated scopes.

Does the bolt slamming forward on an Ar15 or M14 not equal recoil in 2 direstions?

Not even close to the force of the spring recoil on an air rifle.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:40:23 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true on spring operated airguns only , pneumatic or C02 guns don't need a
dual damped scope .

From an Airgun optics guide :

Scopes designed for firearms have optics anchored to handle the backward movement .
Recoil in a spring airgun is different than recoil in a firearm in the sense that it isn't only the amount of recoil that matters, but the direction of the recoil as well. Mainsprings cause an airgun to recoil backward and forward while firearms only recoil in a backward direction. It is this two-direction recoil that can cause damage to non-airgun rated scopes.

Does the bolt slamming forward on an Ar15 or M14 not equal recoil in 2 direstions?

Hey I didn't write it .

The section I cut & Pasted was from a scope guide on an Airgun site .
Here is the Link : Airgun

Go argue with them

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:48:50 AM EDT

[#12]

No shit... A red ryder is worse on a loopy than a Barrett.

I've been schooled this morning.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:50:33 AM EDT

[#13]

I have a Beeman that will kill a regular scope in 10 shots or less. Get the Simmons Airgun scope for $80.00 and be done with it

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:53:26 AM EDT

[#14]

I've heard this before, and I have heard from people that have lost scopes to airguns. They do make "airgun scopes". I wouldn't use anything else on an airgun.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:54:07 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's true on spring operated airguns only , pneumatic or C02 guns don't need a
dual damped scope .

From an Airgun optics guide :

Scopes designed for firearms have optics anchored to handle the backward movement .
Recoil in a spring airgun is different than recoil in a firearm in the sense that it isn't only the amount of recoil that matters, but the direction of the recoil as well. Mainsprings cause an airgun to recoil backward and forward while firearms only recoil in a backward direction. It is this two-direction recoil that can cause damage to non-airgun rated scopes.

Does the bolt slamming forward on an Ar15 or M14 not equal recoil in 2 direstions?

Hey I didn't write it .

The section I cut & Pasted was from a scope guide on an Airgun site .
Here is the Link : Airgun

Go argue with them

I aint arguing, just asked a question

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:55:26 AM EDT

[#16]

It is true.My experiance with spring rifles is that you are better off with a .22 rimfire shooting CB long ammo.Its very quiet and you can shoot the high velocity stuff when you want to.A spring gun will really rattle your brain and after 30 rounds you feel like you have had a good workout.With a .22 you are just getting started.

Posted: 8/6/2005 6:58:27 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
No shit... A red ryder is worse on a loopy than a Barrett. I've been schooled this morning.

Not a Red Ryder which is a BB gun but an air rifle. Similar principle but like comparing Barry Bonds to some Little Leaguer. The typical springer compresses the air behind a pellet to the degree that it will ignite any petroleum-based oil in the compression chamber. Just like a diesel engine.

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:05:30 AM EDT

[#18]

Two real possibilities - shock duration or natural frequency

Shock duration -It's probably a LONGER duration shock impulse.

Remember, even you can handle 1000 gees - for a very, very brief period.

Back in the Apollo days a gust of wind caught a capsule right before splashdown and it landed a bit on edge. Instruments showed something like 1000 gees of shock - enough to pulverize a human.

They really expected to find the astronauts slagged - but they were fine - the impulse was so short it didn't matter.

Natural Frequency - everything has a natural frequency and if the shock matches that frequency, it becomes reinforced. Perfect example is driving down a washboard road. You know how it gets rougher and rougher, but if you speed up it gets better? That's an example of resonance. You speed up and it changes the frequency of the impacts - to something other than the frequency (or multiple) of your suspensions system

Posted: 8/6/2005 7:11:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
IIRC, air rifles recoil FORWARD and not backward...

Yep, and that's what kills the scopes.

ANdy

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:17:41 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
IIRC, air rifles recoil FORWARD and not backward...

Yep, and that's what kills the scopes.

ANdy

Scopes meant for crossbows are built the same as airgun scopes IIRC. Same forward recoil.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:31:37 AM EDT

[#21]

red dot scopes are the only way to go on spring guns.

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:32:42 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
red dot scopes are the only way to go on spring guns.

never mind the good selection of purpose built quality airgun scopes that are availible

Posted: 8/6/2005 8:33:16 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
No shit... A red ryder is worse on a loopy than a Barrett. I've been schooled this morning.

Not a Red Ryder which is a BB gun but an air rifle. Similar principle but like comparing Barry Bonds to some Little Leaguer. The typical springer compresses the air behind a pellet to the degree that it will ignite any petroleum-based oil in the compression chamber. Just like a diesel engine.

TWICE!....

Posted: 8/6/2005 9:24:10 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No shit... A red ryder is worse on a loopy than a Barrett. I've been schooled this morning.

Not a Red Ryder which is a BB gun but an air rifle. Similar principle but like comparing Barry Bonds to some Little Leaguer. The typical springer compresses the air behind a pellet to the degree that it will ignite any petroleum-based oil in the compression chamber. Just like a diesel engine.

TWICE!....

You from New Zealand?

Just kidding...lightenup, Francis

Anyhow, I was tuning a cheapie China knock-off and tried the dieseling. Regular 3 in I oil worked best, taking the velocity from an anemic 840 FPS to well over 1200 FPS. What was amazing was the report when fully dieseling. Louder than a .22

The recoil is severe because the maximum spring force is at the cocked position. Springers recoil from the instant the trigger is released. Then when the piston hits the end of travel, it stops abruptly. This makes the negative recoil. While recoil energy is minimal, considering the net sum, the scope-killing part is the velocity or more precisely, the rate of change of velocity.

Posted: 8/6/2005 10:12:52 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Two real possibilities - shock duration or natural frequency

Shock duration -It's probably a LONGER duration shock impulse.

Remember, even you can handle 1000 gees - for a very, very brief period.

Back in the Apollo days a gust of wind caught a capsule right before splashdown and it landed a bit on edge. Instruments showed something like 1000 gees of shock - enough to pulverize a human.

They really expected to find the astronauts slagged - but they were fine - the impulse was so short it didn't matter.

Natural Frequency - everything has a natural frequency and if the shock matches that frequency, it becomes reinforced. Perfect example is driving down a washboard road. You know how it gets rougher and rougher, but if you speed up it gets better? That's an example of resonance. You speed up and it changes the frequency of the impacts - to something other than the frequency (or multiple) of your suspensions system

Every scope has a natural frequency that would be different, due to different size, weight, mass, and materials. While it would certainly be an issue, some scopes would be okay, and others would fail. Air guns tend to kill every scope that isn't designed for them.

Posted: 8/6/2005 10:20:50 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Anyhow, I was tuning a cheapie China knock-off and tried the dieseling. Regular 3 in I oil worked best, taking the velocity from an anemic 840 FPS to well over 1200 FPS. What was amazing was the report when fully dieseling. Louder than a .22

The recoil is severe because the maximum spring force is at the cocked position. Springers recoil from the instant the trigger is released. Then when the piston hits the end of travel, it stops abruptly. This makes the negative recoil. While recoil energy is minimal, considering the net sum, the scope-killing part is the velocity or more precisely, the rate of change of velocity.

LOL...!

I've done that. I crono'ed it for grins and was getting 450-600FPS faster. Lots-O-Fun...!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Airguns the toughest on scopes ? SO says guy on radio show........

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