Urge President Bush to Secure
Our Borders Immediately

www.reformus.org


Please sign & forword this to your friends & family.

445,277
Total Signatures

445,338
Total Signatures

445,632
Total Signatures

445,682

BTTT

Surely this will convince him.  

Dont want this one to get away too soon.
BUMP

446,187

uno mas!

Bumpin this for the day crew.

447,140
Total Signatures

447,141

Love to see this reach 1 million.

Done.

Do you guys give your name and email address to every
online website that requests them?
Let the spamming begin.

done!

Quoted: Do you guys give your name and email address to every online website that requests them? Let the spamming begin.

Lower right hand corner
http://www.reformus.org/

(PRIVACY POLICY: Your name and information will NOT be shared,
rented or sold to any party.)

451,835

HH

Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it."

Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it.

452,148
Total Signatures

Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it.

It is possible and simple.  The expense would be quite high but not as high as the cost of one nuclear explosion on US soil.

The solution is forced military service for all people @ 18 years of age or upon graduation from high school. Two years manditory service as border patrol or coast guard.  Rotation to a new post every six months to help keep corruption to a minimum.  Upon fulfillment of the two years of service, the person gets two years free college.  Men, women, handicapped as long as they can do desk work.  Everybody.

Quoted: Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it. It is possible and simple.  The expense would be quite high but not as high as the cost of one nuclear explosion on US soil. The solution is forced military service for all people @ 18 years of age or upon graduation from high school. Two years manditory service as border patrol or coast guard.  Rotation to a new post every six months to help keep corruption to a minimum.  Upon fulfillment of the two years of service, the person gets two years free college.  Men, women, handicapped as long as they can do desk work.  Everybody.

That is a damn good idea. I know several 18 year olds that would really benefit personally from a program like that. Chances of getting it passed arent good however.

Quoted: Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it. It is possible and simple.  The expense would be quite high but not as high as the cost of one nuclear explosion on US soil. The solution is forced military service for all people @ 18 years of age or upon graduation from high school. Two years manditory service as border patrol or coast guard.  Rotation to a new post every six months to help keep corruption to a minimum.  Upon fulfillment of the two years of service, the person gets two years free college.  Men, women, handicapped as long as they can do desk work.  Everybody.

Uuuh, yeah, never mind the last experience with the draft.  The DEA and other drug enforcement agencies have been fighting this problem for years. By their own numbers they figure they catch about five percent of what comes across the border. Lou Dobbs featured a thing the other night about the Coast Guard which said that they KNEW ABOUT 330 drug shipments but only had the resources to catch 70. That doesn't count the ones they didn't know about, of course, and stoppiing them all would require stationing a team of people on every remote beach and stretch of coastline in America. (You can have the Alaska duty, thanks.)

And one more thing, even if your idea was politically feasible (probably not by a long shot) we couldn't afford it by a long shot.

456,262

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it. It is possible and simple. The expense would be quite high but not as high as the cost of one nuclear explosion on US soil. The solution is forced military service for all people @ 18 years of age or upon graduation from high school. Two years manditory service as border patrol or coast guard.  Rotation to a new post every six months to help keep corruption to a minimum.  Upon fulfillment of the two years of service, the person gets two years free college.  Men, women, handicapped as long as they can do desk work.  Everybody. Uuuh, yeah, never mind the last experience with the draft.  The DEA and other drug enforcement agencies have been fighting this problem for years. By their own numbers they figure they catch about five percent of what comes across the border. Lou Dobbs featured a thing the other night about the Coast Guard which said that they KNEW ABOUT 330 drug shipments but only had the resources to catch 70. That doesn't count the ones they didn't know about, of course, and stoppiing them all would require stationing a team of people on every remote beach and stretch of coastline in America. (You can have the Alaska duty, thanks.) And one more thing, even if your idea was politically feasible (probably not by a long shot) we couldn't afford it by a long shot.

The DEA and other drug enforcement agencies aren't fielding the one million+ bodies that the program I am recomending would have.  I didn't say that it would be painless. What I am saying is that it would stop almost all of our border problem.

What was your idea on how to stop the flow of illegal aliens?

Quoted: The DEA and other drug enforcement agencies aren't fielding the one million+ bodies that the program I am recomending would have.  I didn't say that it would be painless. What I am saying is that it would stop almost all of our border problem.

And just give us your rough estimate of what it would take to put one million plus bodies on the border, train them, house them, feed them, get them adequate water in the Southwestern deserts, adequate housing and clothing on the border with Canada and in Alaska, administer the whole thing, etc.  

That's not to mention all the shipping containers that come into every port every day.

I will give you the bottom line -- you can't afford it.

What was your idea on how to stop the flow of illegal aliens?

Step 1: Recognize realistic limitations. Don't demand stuff nobody can deliver.

Step 2: Recognize that as long as the incentives are as great as they are for illegal aliens to come here, then you aren't going to have much effect on that problem until you give them some incentives to stay home.

Just to give you a picture of one particular illegal alien I met. She was middle-aged (late 30s)from Guatemala and left her home to come to the US. The reason she left home was because she couldn't feed her kids and because the political situation was dangerous -- like people were getting killed. She took a bus for the first couple of hundred miles. Then she walked the rest of the way with nothing but the clothes on her back. She was beaten and robbed along the way and suffered all sorts of other indignities. When she got here she took menial labor and sent most of the money home. Within a couple of years she had become fluent in English, was living a decent life, had taken vocational educational classes, and was making plans to bring her kids over.

Now her story isn't the story of all illegal aliens, but I think it demonstrates the level of motivation for a lot of them.

Think about what would it be like if you were in her position. Suppose you couldn't feed your kids at home because there was no work. Suppose that the political situation was such that you and your family were in danger. You have seen relatives killed by the corrupt police and had family members die from relatively simple medical problems because there is no money for medical care. You know that a few hundred miles away there is a place where you can earn wages far beyond what you could earn at home. You could apply for a visa, but that might take years, more money than you have, and you probably wouldn't get it, anyway.

Step 3: Consider what it would be like if you were in that situation. What would it take to stop you?  

Kinda vague on your plan there bud.  I like mine better. YMMV

 Now that's funny.  People thinking this is going to make a difference.  

Might as well be liberals.

Quoted: Kinda vague on your plan there bud.  I like mine better. YMMV

You can't afford it.  That's not to mention the political difficulties you would have with a million+ draft.  If you can't afford it, you need to think it over.  You would do just as well to plan to fly to Tahiti by flapping your arms.

Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it.

Instead of throwing money into liberal pork spending BS, the money should go to securing the border. There is no profit in it so no one wants to do it, especialy the liberals. IT CAN BE DONE! The gov. lacks the BALLS to do it.

Quoted: Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it. Instead of throwing money into liberal pork spending BS, the money should go to securing the border. There is no profit in it so no one wants to do it, especialy the liberals. IT CAN BE DONE! The gov. lacks the BALLS to do it.

I think I already asked for an estimate of what it would cost to feed, house, etc., a one-million-plus force on the border. I didn't catch where anyone here even had the foggiest clue.

How about you? Do you have any clue what it would cost? That is, assuming you could get a one-million plus draft passed in the first place.

And if no one here has the foggiest clue what it would cost, how can you be so sure it can be done?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does it matter to anyone that Federal law enforcement has recognized for years that sealing the borders is impossible? The same issue has come up with respect to drugs. To paraphrase some top federal officials "If it was possible, you coudn't afford it." Somewhere there should be a petition to get the Federal Government to pass a law so everyone can flap their arms and fly. Let's all sign it. Instead of throwing money into liberal pork spending BS, the money should go to securing the border. There is no profit in it so no one wants to do it, especialy the liberals. IT CAN BE DONE! The gov. lacks the BALLS to do it. I think I already asked for an estimate of what it would cost to feed, house, etc., a one-million-plus force on the border. I didn't catch where anyone here even had the foggiest clue. How about you? Do you have any clue what it would cost? That is, assuming you could get a one-million plus draft passed in the first place. And if no one here has the foggiest clue what it would cost, how can you be so sure it can be done?

Let's hear your figures.  You have obviously put a lot of thought into this subject.  I would like to hear even if no one else would.

457,998

Quoted: Urge President Bush to Secure Our Borders Immediately

To think we have to sign a petition for this.

Quoted: Let's hear your figures.  You have obviously put a lot of thought into this subject.  I would like to hear even if no one else would.

Meaning that you don't even know where to begin to calculate the cost?  Yeah, I kinda suspected that.

Well, first you start by multiplying 1,000,000 times whatever annual average salary you are planning for these people. Let's remember that they won't all be privates, so let's just pick a low ballpark figure of say, $20,000 per year. Add another third for benefits. That's Twenty Six Billion per year right there, and we haven't really begun.

Then you have to figure out what it would cost to house them. There is a lot that goes with that, but you could probably use a rough figure of about $50,000 per person to establish the property facilities. We could use some old military bases, but we would need to have a whole bunch of new little ones in order to make it feasible. That's about another 50 Billion in capital costs right there -- never mind the time it would take to acquire all the land all the places you would need it.

Then you need some clothing and equipment. Let's go cheap and figure that each one only needs about $1,000 in clothing and equipment. There's another billion. Then let's look at food. Figure 20 bucks a day for food and water, or about $7,300 per year per person. That's another 7 Billion.

Then, of course, they need things like Humvees to get to their duty posts. Let's figure, in round figures, one Humvee for every ten people, at about $50,000 each. That's fifty grand times 100,000 for another 5 Billion. Then there is gas, maintenance, etc. for them.

We are pretty close to 100 billion dollars already and the list of expenses has only begun. Since it is a government operation, take all those figures and add at least one-third for administration and overhead. We will assume there is absolutely no waste and corruption in the program. Your program will be the first one in history with no waste or corruption.

At that rate, you might actually be able to put one person about every hundred yards or so over the entire border. (I bet you didn't even bother to look up the total border length and figure out how far apart your people would be.)  Even at that distance, there are plenty of places on the border that someone could sneak across through the underbrush.

Then we get on to something that will probably really cost some money. There are about 13 million shipping containers that come into the US each year. You have two major costs there. One is the cost of all the inspectors and equipment required to inspect them all. The second cost is what it will do to the economy to have all the shipping delayed. Let me give you the short answer. You can't afford either one.

I think 250 billion dollars would be a conservative estimate for what it would require, not counting that shipping container thing. You can look up your own figures if you are really doing anything more than ranting.


Then . . . . . after about a year of operation, you will have one million people coming back home. About 900,000 of them will tell their families they really didn't do a damn thing but stare at the desert, the sea, or the forest and that, from their perspective, your plan is the silliest goddamn government boondoggle they have ever seen. Assuming you could ever get it passed, and assuming you could get any economist to do anything but laugh hysterically, that would be the end of your plan.

Quoted: 457,998

And not one has a clue what it would cost. These people vote, too.

Done. BTT

Quoted: Quoted: Kinda vague on your plan there bud.  I like mine better. YMMV You can't afford it.  That's not to mention the political difficulties you would have with a million+ draft.  If you can't afford it, you need to think it over.  You would do just as well to plan to fly to Tahiti by flapping your arms.

Does this seem odd???????? We create a Homeland Security Department and leave the borders wide open. 11 million illegals in the country right now. Hell we don't know who they are or where there from. Either seal the fuck in border or forget the whole Homeland Security BS. This situation is like leaving the gate wide open and then complaining when you loose your cattle. Common sense is a scarce commodity in this country at the moment.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Kinda vague on your plan there bud.  I like mine better. YMMV You can't afford it.  That's not to mention the political difficulties you would have with a million+ draft.  If you can't afford it, you need to think it over.  You would do just as well to plan to fly to Tahiti by flapping your arms. Does this seem odd???????? We create a Homeland Security Department and leave the borders wide open. 11 million illegals in the country right now. Hell we don't know who they are or where there from. Either seal the fuck in border or forget the whole Homeland Security BS. This situation is like leaving the gate wide open and then complaining when you loose your cattle. Common sense is a scarce commodity in this country at the moment.

Forgetting the Homeland Security Department is definitely more feasible than trying to seal the borders.

Just curious, did anyone who signed this petition even look up how many miles of borders there are? Yeah, common sense is a scarce commodity. Half a million people will sign a petition without looking up even the first of the facts.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Kinda vague on your plan there bud.  I like mine better. YMMV You can't afford it.  That's not to mention the political difficulties you would have with a million+ draft.  If you can't afford it, you need to think it over.  You would do just as well to plan to fly to Tahiti by flapping your arms. Does this seem odd???????? We create a Homeland Security Department and leave the borders wide open. 11 million illegals in the country right now. Hell we don't know who they are or where there from. Either seal the fuck in border or forget the whole Homeland Security BS. This situation is like leaving the gate wide open and then complaining when you loose your cattle. Common sense is a scarce commodity in this country at the moment. Forgetting the Homeland Security Department is definitely more feasible than trying to seal the borders. Just curious, did anyone who signed this petition even look up how many miles of borders there are? Yeah, common sense is a scarce commodity. Half a million people will sign a petition without looking up even the first of the facts.

One million men needed to secure border. Against what? Maybe a full scale invasion by a well equipped army but not a bunch of ill equipped Mexicans trying to get to the US. IT could be done and done with a hell of lot less than a million men. If we have another terrorists attack and if it is traced to illegals entering our country thru that southern border some government officials are going to have some tough questions to answer.

458,370

Makes me feel good

Feelin' good is what it's all about, I'm sure.

That said, they're going to sell your name and email
to somebody and then it's Spam City. Wait and see.

Quoted: One million men needed to secure border. Against what? Maybe a full scale invasion by a well equipped army but not a bunch of ill equipped Mexicans trying to get to the US. IT could be done and done with a hell of lot less than a million men. If we have another terrorists attack and if it is traced to illegals entering our country thru that southern border some government officials are going to have some tough questions to answer.

Let's see if you have thought through the most basic factual issues.

1) How many miles of border are there?

2) How many people do you think could do the job?

3) How far apart would they be if we stationed them on the border?

4) How much would it cost?

You can be the first person to show that you have given it even one second's thought.

Quoted: Quoted: Let's hear your figures.  You have obviously put a lot of thought into this subject.  I would like to hear even if no one else would. Meaning that you don't even know where to begin to calculate the cost?  Yeah, I kinda suspected that. Well, first you start by multiplying 1,000,000 times whatever annual average salary you are planning for these people. Let's remember that they won't all be privates, so let's just pick a low ballpark figure of say, $20,000 per year. Add another third for benefits. That's Twenty Six Billion per year right there, and we haven't really begun. Then you have to figure out what it would cost to house them. There is a lot that goes with that, but you could probably use a rough figure of about $50,000 per person to establish the property facilities. We could use some old military bases, but we would need to have a whole bunch of new little ones in order to make it feasible. That's about another 50 Billion in capital costs right there -- never mind the time it would take to acquire all the land all the places you would need it. Then you need some clothing and equipment. Let's go cheap and figure that each one only needs about $1,000 in clothing and equipment. There's another billion. Then let's look at food. Figure 20 bucks a day for food and water, or about $7,300 per year per person. That's another 7 Billion. Then, of course, they need things like Humvees to get to their duty posts. Let's figure, in round figures, one Humvee for every ten people, at about $50,000 each. That's fifty grand times 100,000 for another 5 Billion. Then there is gas, maintenance, etc. for them. We are pretty close to 100 billion dollars already and the list of expenses has only begun. Since it is a government operation, take all those figures and add at least one-third for administration and overhead. We will assume there is absolutely no waste and corruption in the program. Your program will be the first one in history with no waste or corruption. At that rate, you might actually be able to put one person about every hundred yards or so over the entire border. (I bet you didn't even bother to look up the total border length and figure out how far apart your people would be.)  Even at that distance, there are plenty of places on the border that someone could sneak across through the underbrush. Then we get on to something that will probably really cost some money. There are about 13 million shipping containers that come into the US each year. You have two major costs there. One is the cost of all the inspectors and equipment required to inspect them all. The second cost is what it will do to the economy to have all the shipping delayed. Let me give you the short answer. You can't afford either one. I think 250 billion dollars would be a conservative estimate for what it would require, not counting that shipping container thing. You can look up your own figures if you are really doing anything more than ranting. Then . . . . . after about a year of operation, you will have one million people coming back home. About 900,000 of them will tell their families they really didn't do a damn thing but stare at the desert, the sea, or the forest and that, from their perspective, your plan is the silliest goddamn government boondoggle they have ever seen. Assuming you could ever get it passed, and assuming you could get any economist to do anything but laugh hysterically, that would be the end of your plan.

You seem a bit snippy.  I was asking an honest question in a non confrontational manner yet you appear to be answering like you have a bad attitude about this.  Maybe I'm reading your post wrong.  It wont be my first mistake.  If so. I appologize.  If not then go fuck yourself. There now. I can act like a dickhead too and we're on the same page.

Quoted: Feelin' good is what it's all about, I'm sure. That said, they're going to sell your name and email to somebody and then it's Spam City. Wait and see.

PRIVACY POLICY: Your name and information will NOT be shared, rented or sold to any party.

Quoted: Quoted: One million men needed to secure border. Against what? Maybe a full scale invasion by a well equipped army but not a bunch of ill equipped Mexicans trying to get to the US. IT could be done and done with a hell of lot less than a million men. If we have another terrorists attack and if it is traced to illegals entering our country thru that southern border some government officials are going to have some tough questions to answer. Let's see if you have thought through the most basic factual issues. 1) How many miles of border are there? 2) How many people do you think could do the job? 3) How far apart would they be if we stationed them on the border? 4) How much would it cost? You can be the first person to show that you have given it even one second's thought.

Do the National Guard work for free or do they get paid when on duty?
Put the guard on the border, They are allready being paid, DUH!!!!
Bring the troop that are serving in Europe back home & put them on the border too,
They are allready being paid, DUH!!!

459,985
Total Signatures

Done.

Bilster

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One million men needed to secure border. Against what? Maybe a full scale invasion by a well equipped army but not a bunch of ill equipped Mexicans trying to get to the US. IT could be done and done with a hell of lot less than a million men. If we have another terrorists attack and if it is traced to illegals entering our country thru that southern border some government officials are going to have some tough questions to answer. Let's see if you have thought through the most basic factual issues. 1) How many miles of border are there? 2) How many people do you think could do the job? 3) How far apart would they be if we stationed them on the border? 4) How much would it cost? You can be the first person to show that you have given it even one second's thought. Do the National Guard work for free or do they get paid when on duty? Put the guard on the border, They are allready being paid, DUH!!!! Bring the troop that are serving in Europe back home & put them on the border too, They are allready being paid, DUH!!!

You didn't answer even one of the questions. If your plan would work, then answer the questions.

Quoted: You seem a bit snippy.  I was asking an honest question in a non confrontational manner yet you appear to be answering like you have a bad attitude about this.  Maybe I'm reading your post wrong.  It wont be my first mistake.  If so. I appologize.  If not then go fuck yourself. There now. I can act like a dickhead too and we're on the same page.

Sorry about the tone. But I do find it amazing that half a million people can jump on a bandwagon like this when not one of them even knows how many miles of border there are -- never mind the cost and feasibility issues.  It scares me to think that these sorts of things with so little thought behind them might actually have some influence on policy. It should scare you, too.