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Motorcycle.

Seriously. More fun than ANY car, and you can drive all week on 4 gallons of gas.

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Any of the small size Honda's. My son has a new SI and he gets around 35 mpg.

To Consumer Reports, all cars are unreliable unless they say "Toyota".

Current VW turbodiesels are awesome cars, and they are as reliable as anything else today, which means they are very, very good.  Will you have to do some maintenance?  Sure.

Let me put it this way, I have a 2001 Dodge Dakota.  It has 92,000 miles.  Listening to people in general and "consumer" magazines, my truck should have eaten two transmissions by now, have the headliner falling down, paint peeling off, rattles and squeaks all over the inside, and leaking a quart of oil a month.  Well, so far I've had to replace the ventilation fan switch and a couple of sway bar bushings.

Get a 4 door Golf TDI.  They tend to be about $500 to $1000 cheaper than Jettas because Americans think hatchbacks are "cheap".  Never mind the Jetta is just a Golf with a trunk.  The hatchback makes the Golf a hell of a lot more versatile than the Jetta ever will be.

BTW, before my truck, I drove the piss out of a Golf GTI 16V for eleven years, and my wife is still driving a fourteen year old Golf GL.

The price of a new car will buy a lot of gasoline.......

Quoted: Quoted: Motorcycle. Seriously. More fun than ANY car, and you can drive all week on 4 gallons of gas. I'm with ya... However, I need a place for my wife and daughter.

You commute with your wife and daughter? If so, then don't change a thing. You're moving 3 people at 14 mpg, whereas about 88% of other commuters are only moving one. You're ahead of the curve.

Or get a BMW with a bitchin' sidecar!

Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage.

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Quoted: Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage.

In my neck of the woods, diesel is about 20 cents per gallon more, it won't take much to make ROI going from 14 to 40 mpg.

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Quoted: Quoted: Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage. In my neck of the woods, diesel is about 20 cents per gallon more, it won't take much to make ROI going from 14 to 40 mpg.

40? I thought you said 35? Who are you trying to convince: us, your wife or yourself?

ETA: Sorry. Thought this was JKiser's response.

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Kiser, get yourself a slightly used Golf TDI with four doors.  If you can't find one, then settle for a Jetta.  If you get the 5 speed, their EPA rating is 40 city/48 hwy.

I have the same issue as I've been working about 100 miles from where I live. You might what to check out  FREDSTDI page there is alot of info there on diesel VWs. I have considered buying a Jetta diesel.  I have known a few guys had got over 40mpg. I can't speak for their reliability and repair costs.

Quoted: Quoted: Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage. It will eat some (that is why I am looking for 35 and not 28)...  Do you have any other practical alternatives?

Don't get me wrong - I happen to think that the Diesel VW's are pretty good cars. I'm not sure about the long-term reliability, though. As others have said, if reliability starts to weigh more heavily in your decision matrix than overall mileage, then Honda or Toyota will certainly take the nod over the VW. Add to that the resale value of the Honda or Toyota will be higher in 4 years than the VW, if that means anything to you.

With that much time on the road per week, though, please don't sacrifice safety for economy. You have a responsibility to provide a safe vehicle for your family and yourself. Is it really worth saving $10-20 a week to drive your family around in a little tin box?

FWIW, I drive a '98 F-150 4x4 on a 70-mile/day round-trip commute. I get worse mileage than you do. If gas were to go to $5/gallon today, I'll be the first guy in line at the pump to buy it. Gasoline can't ever be priced so high in the US that I won't buy it. I'm an addict.

A VW TDI has real torque.  Every Honda I've driven has needed to have the piss revved out of it to get out of its way.

My Honda Civic gets about 37-38mpg.  I highly recommend it for a commuter car.

buy a used 4 cyl Camry. It will run forever and you'll get about 30 mpg with plenty of interior space

VW is one of the most unreliable cars on the market.

Customer Satisfaction Rating--1MB PDF File

Quoted: I have the same issue as I've been working about 100 miles from where I live. You might what to check out  FREDSTDI page there is alot of info there on diesel VWs. I have considered buying a Jetta diesel.  I have known a few guys had got over 40mpg. I can't speak for their reliability and repair costs.

Fred's TDI Club Page

I've had my 2000 Jetta TDI since I bought it new Sept 1999.  It just turned 75,000 miles.

To date, repairs are:

 -trunk lock (wouldn't latch right for alarm system)
 -tires (factory michelin)

I put "high performance" Potenza tires on it and my mileage is now _horrible_.  I get
42MPH in the city, about 44 on the highway.

Before the new tires I was getting 46 in town and upwards of 62 on the highway.

The little 4-banger is fun to drive and regularly takes on (and smokes) Honda 4-bangers.
Really pisses off the little boyz with their "rice rockets" when they pull up to you and
you lean over and say, "Dude, it's a diesel."

Read the posts on the TDI Club.  You'll be hooked.

My next car will be a diesel Passat...  need a bit more room.

Good mileage 4 door cars:

Honda Civic - Great choice.  upper 30's - Low 40's MPG
Honda Civic Hybrid - A Fully Loaded Civic - more expensive - mid 40's to low 50s MPG
Toyota Corolla - Another Great choice.  similar mileage to Civic.
Toyota Prius - Most interesting choice.  Interior large like Camry - more expensive - mid 40s to low 50s MPG.
VW Jetta TDI - Good choice.  More expensive - mid to upper 40s MPG - buy diesel
VW Golf TDI - Same.  upper 40's to low 50s - diesel
VW Passat TDI - low 40s mileage, plenty of space - diesel

If you are satisfied with mileage less than the lower 40's, pretty much any small car will do.

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I have a buddy that commutes about 180miles total each day.  He works on an airport at the other end.   This is his commuter.

He had a local job, but after layoffs had to find something else.  The plane is actually cheaper for him than driving would be.  It also takes much less time.  

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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage. In my neck of the woods, diesel is about 20 cents per gallon more, it won't take much to make ROI going from 14 to 40 mpg. 40? I thought you said 35? Who are you trying to convince: us, your wife or yourself? I am not convincing anyone of anything...  I am looking for a cheap 4 wheel vehicle that gets better than 35 miles to the gallon.  I don't know if they exist and I do not trust the advertising.  I am asking for personal experience of other Arfcommers to help me make a choice. So back off...

Here you go, straight from the US Govt...www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm

Hope that helps.

I used to drive an F150, but traded it in.  Now I drive a 2002 Golf TDI, 5spd manual, and I love this car.  When I first bought it, I thought I'd keep it for a couple years and then get something else- but after having it for about 3 years and 53k miles, I don't think I will ever sell this car.

I generally get low 40s for city driving(might see 38-39 once or twice in the winter), and 49-50mpg on the highway(that's at ~75mph).  In the last year, I've averaged ~45mpg, with a good mix of city driving and highway.  I also have wider, stickier tires than the energy tires that came with the car.  I've had as high as 54mpg, but I had to do the speed limit for that, which was mostly 65mph with a little 55-60mph mixed in(and that was with the original energy tires).

Another great thing is RANGE!  Figure about 15gal to burn until the low fuel light comes on, and close to two gallons after that.  I generally drive around 600mi for city driving and 700mi for highway driving before I need to fill up, but I have had as high as 842mi.  Earlier this summer, I drove from MD to AZ and back.  On the way out, one leg started in Memphis, TN and didn't have to stop until Shamrock, TX on I-40.  Covered AR and OK on one tank.  Coming back, one leg was Los Alamos, NM to the OK/AR state line- 10.5 hours of straight driving.  I was a little stiff when I got out, but not really sore.  Was just fine when I was driving, it's a very comfortable car.

Overall it's been pretty reliable, but I have had a couple minor issues.  Nothing that left me stranded or anything like that.  If you do ever have any problems, you can just go to the TDIclub and use the forums.

The only thing that sucks about VW is their service.  Even under warranty, I avoid them if I can.

If you are looking new, the mileage is a little lower than what I'm getting, but not much, and they do have a little more power.  And of course if it's an automatic it will be a little lower yet.  There's also the Passat TDI if you want a larger car, which I think gets about 30cty/40hwy.

As far as diesel costing more than gas, it's only about 10% more, and I'm getting 50% better mileage than if I bought the same car with a gasoline engine.

You can also run the car on biodiesel, which I think is great because it's a domestic prodcut, and I can tell OPEC and the arabs to F off.

I don't know that I would be getting a new car just to save on gas, but if you're looking for a new car, then fuel efficiency is a good thing to look for I guess.

Buy a Golf/Jetta/Passat TDI

My 96 Passat TDI has been in the family since it was originally purchased.  We broke 200k a few months back, no major repairs necessary (knock on wood, it is almost 10 y/o) and the only work don to it at this point is the belts, shocks, tires and it needs a new muffler tha it just might get when we get the next travel voucher (down to Atlanta & back).  

Don't get the New Beetle.  It works fine . . . even reliable . . . but any work you need to do is a PITA because they had to shoehorn the engine into the front of the car (I am a traditionalist).


and while I am here SPC Wilson wants to say this . . . . . . . . she is a wild child.

Quoted: Quoted: I have the same issue as I've been working about 100 miles from where I live. You might what to check out  FREDSTDI page there is alot of info there on diesel VWs. I have considered buying a Jetta diesel.  I have known a few guys had got over 40mpg. I can't speak for their reliability and repair costs. Fred's TDI Club Page I've had my 2000 Jetta TDI since I bought it new Sept 1999.  It just turned 75,000 miles. To date, repairs are:  -trunk lock (wouldn't latch right for alarm system)  -tires (factory michelin) I put "high performance" Potenza tires on it and my mileage is now _horrible_.  I get 42MPH in the city, about 44 on the highway. Before the new tires I was getting 46 in town and upwards of 62 on the highway. The little 4-banger is fun to drive and regularly takes on (and smokes) Honda 4-bangers. Really pisses off the little boyz with their "rice rockets" when they pull up to you and you lean over and say, "Dude, it's a diesel." Read the posts on the TDI Club.  You'll be hooked. My next car will be a diesel Passat...  need a bit more room.

Quoted: I have a buddy that commutes about 180miles total each day.  He works on an airport at the other end.   This is his commuter. He had a local job, but after layoffs had to find something else.  The plane is actually cheaper for him than driving would be.  It also takes much less time.

Sweet!  Bonanzas rule!

I worked at Raytheon Aircraft for 8 1/2 years, most of that time as a mfg engineer on the Bonanza/Baron and King Air assembly lines, and was the King Air process engineering manager for a while.  So every time I see one, I look at them with a certain pride of ownership.

The company also has a kick ass employee flying club and I was able to rent new panel A36 Bonanzas for about $65/hr in the late 90s, early 2000s.

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Quoted: Quoted: I have a buddy that commutes about 180miles total each day.  He works on an airport at the other end.   This is his commuter. He had a local job, but after layoffs had to find something else.  The plane is actually cheaper for him than driving would be.  It also takes much less time.   img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/icebluecuda/303b/IM001107.jpg Sweet!  Bonanzas rule! I worked at Raytheon Aircraft for 8 1/2 years, most of that time as a mfg engineer on the Bonanza/Baron and King Air assembly lines, and was the King Air process engineering manager for a while.  So every time I see one, I look at them with a certain pride of ownership. The company also has a kick ass employee flying club and I was able to rent new panel A36 Bonanzas for about $65/hr in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Old V tails suck ass. Sorry, had to be said. I mech on them. If you perform the permanent compliance with all the ADs they aren't too bad but then you will be upside down in them.

Quoted: this whole thing eats at me because these little cars seem to represent a culture that I do not subscribe to

brilliant

You just said you're having a hard time making ends meet but you don't want to be part of a "culture" that is economical????????

Time to reevaluate your priorities dude.

Quoted: To Consumer Reports, all cars are unreliable unless they say "Toyota". Current VW turbodiesels are awesome cars, and they are as reliable as anything else today, which means they are very, very good.  Will you have to do some maintenance?  Sure.

+1 - DO NOT WRITE OFF THE VW TDI (DIESEL) BASED ON CONSUMER REPORTS

For information on the VW TDIs check out www.tdiclub.com.  Before I bought my car I test drove the Civic, Corolla, Protege and Focus.  None compared with the VW in terms of materials, fit or finish, let alone fuel economy.

I've got a 2000 Golf GLS TDI with almost 50,000 miles on it.  I have experienced two of the problems that have resulted in Consumer Reports' negative rating - weak window clips and a faulty MAF sensor.  Both were repaired promptly by the dealer under warranty.  Those are the ONLY problems I have experienced in 5 years and 50,000 miles.

My car gets 43 mpg in mixed driving, and that's on the low end of the spectrum compared to the other TDI owners I know.  I live in Seattle and commute to Bellevue, WA.  About 50% city and 50% highway.  The highway miles are either sto-and-go or 70 mph.  My injectors and injection pump are larger than stock, too (TDIs are fun cars to mod).  

If your 70 mile commute is mostly on the highway, as I suspect it is, then you should be able to get around 50 mpg with a TDI (Golf, Jetta or Passat).  I know that's hard to believe, but check out www.tdiclub.com before you dismiss it.

Older TDIs can be had fairly cheaply.  The older Passats (previous body style) are a little roomier than the Golfs and Jettas and are among the most fuel efficient TDIs.

P.S.  Go to www.crashtest.com and compare the Golf and Jetta's safety ratings to the alternatives.  Last time I checked they looked pretty good compared to the competition.

Quoted: Quoted: Here you go, straight from the US Govt...www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byMPG.htm Hope that helps. Yhank you for the input...  However, I have been there.  I was told that it is not very accurate because manufacturers tune their vehicles to do weel on that test.  I do not know if that is true...  Again, I am trying to cut through the fog...

I'm sure that kind of thing does go on, but I don't know of any other reputable sources of info. Getting input from users of a given vehicle is valuable, but it's anecdotal evidence. I use both sources, by the way. Prime example: the new Toyota Prius 2. EPA says 60mpg highway. Virtually no one gets even 55mpg out of it. The testing methodology is outdated. EPA has taken a lot of flak lately about that, and is promising to develop a better testing method, but we'll have to see.

I did some comparisons for you. 2005 Volkswagon New Beetle, Honda Civic, Toyota Echo, Toyota Corolla.  All were automatic transmissions, smallest engine available...best combined mileage is the Volkswagon (38mpg). Best highway mileage is the Volkswagon (42mpg), with the Toyota Corolla a second best (41 mpg). Cost to drive per year was pretty close ($923-$955 per year),. The Toyota Corolla polluted the least, and the Volkswagon polluted the most.

To be sure, the pollution of the Volkswagon should go down next year, since the EPA is mandating a new low-sulphur diesel fuel, but I don't know by how much this'll help.

I figured that your current vehicle costs you $2977 a year to commute with, versus about $1042 versus a car that averages 40mpg. $1935 a year in fuel savings, and about 12000 lbs per year less crap spewed into the air for your family to breathe.

In any event, good luck, and hope you like whatever you decide to buy. It'll be a big improvement over what you have currently.

Quoted: Prime example: the new Toyota Prius 2. EPA says 60mpg highway. Virtually no one gets even 55mpg out of it. The testing methodology is outdated. EPA has taken a lot of flak lately about that, and is promising to develop a better testing method, but we'll have to see.

Actually it is 60 city, and 51 highway--

But I agree 100%.  ALL cars are skewed in the testing, primairly because the highway testing is done at 50 mph (!), IIRC.

Subtract about 10% from the EPA estimate for highway and you will be far more accurate in almost ANY car.

In my experience with a Toyota Prius II, I get about 48 MPG on the highway (70 MPH) and about 55 MPG in the city (at or above speed limits).  My overall average for the last 8,000 miles is just over 50 MPG, and I am about halfway through a tank that is averaging 55 MPG.

Quoted: Quoted: Prime example: the new Toyota Prius 2. EPA says 60mpg highway. Virtually no one gets even 55mpg out of it. The testing methodology is outdated. EPA has taken a lot of flak lately about that, and is promising to develop a better testing method, but we'll have to see. Actually it is 60 city, and 51 highway-- But I agree 100%.  ALL cars are skewed in the testing, primairly because the highway testing is done at 50 mph (!), IIRC. Subtract about 10% from the EPA estimate for highway and you will be far more accurate in almost ANY car. In my experience with a Toyota Prius II, I get about 48 MPG on the highway (70 MPH) and about 55 MPG in the city (at or above speed limits).  My overall average for the last 8,000 miles is just over 50 MPG, and I am about halfway through a tank that is averaging 55 MPG.

You're right, had the city/highway backwards. I did a fair bit of hanging around at various Toyota Prius forumns when the new version came out. People were pissed they weren't getting anywhere near the advertised 60mpg city. Evworld lists the 42 person average as 48mpg combined average...45mpg for the Civic Hybrid.

50 mph highway testing is insane. Who goes that speed? I'd say 65 would be more appropriate.

There's just something about the smell of Diesel in the morning.

"Real men" drive diesels.  

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Quoted: Motorcycle. Seriously. More fun than ANY car, and you can drive all week on 4 gallons of gas.

Some of the new rice rockets burn quite a bit.  My f4i didn't do that well.  Seems like I was filling up every other day.

Quoted: Some of the new rice rockets burn quite a bit.  My f4i didn't do that well.  Seems like I was filling up every other day.

4 gallons of gas * WFO = many trips to the gas and tire stores. Sportbikes don't seem to be particularly well suited for fuel economy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: this whole thing eats at me because these little cars seem to represent a culture that I do not subscribe to brilliant You just said you're having a hard time making ends meet but you don't want to be part of a "culture" that is economical???????? Time to reevaluate your priorities dude. Maybe you should learn to read.  I said I enjoy driving a truck (in not so many words).  I do not think that the Scion or the VW represent a culture that is economical...  If they did, they would NOT be marketed the way that they are...  Then I noted that I need to be economical.  If there was an economical F150, I would drive that, or whatever...  My issue is with the marketing hype and the different cultures that grow up around a product.  NOT with being economical. When I go in public, I do not wear chains hanging from my pants with my hat on backwards and a tatoo of Yoda on my forehead.  The reason?  Because there is a stigma attached to that behavior that will drive law abiding citizens and LEO's to consider you negatively. I would rather remain anonymous.  I would rather not encourage anyone to regard me in any way.  I live in the south, F150's are as common as dirt.   My comment was about the marketing hype that associates the disenfranchised with the VW and Scion products.  Are you so dense that you do not see that association?  You can not turn on a TV and miss it...  Perception is reality for most people.

So basically you're a hapless victim of marketing hype.....got it.

Newsflash....you're an nameless, faceless bot rolling down the road in you F150, Scion, Porsche, whatever. The only perception that is being impacted is yours. Buy for your needs....if your psychological need surpasses your "real world" needs, then get yourself the 350 Dually.

might try carpooling a couple times a week too

F150 VW
gas mileage 14 40
miles per day 70 70
cost of fuel $2.29 $2.50
cost of fuel per day $11.45 $4.38
cost of fuel per month (22 day) $251.90 $96.25

savings per month: $155.65

Quoted: F150 VW gas mileage 14 40 miles per day 70 70 cost of fuel $2.29 $2.50 cost of fuel per day $11.45 $4.38 cost of fuel per month (22 day) $251.90 $96.25 savings per month: $155.65

Don't forget to add the cost of the new car note in there.  Unless a new car is mechanically necessary, you'll come out behind until the car is paid off.

Hmmmm...this exact same scenario was printed as a promotional article in my local paper's automotive classifieds - I think it was a testimonial from some guy who kept his F150 but bought a VW TDI for his daily-driver.

Quoted: Also, the premium price you will pay for diesel fuel will offset a lot of the potential increase in mileage.

It may surprise ARF'ER's that the draconian commonwealth of mass has outlawed sales of new diesel cars.  

Get a VW TDI and run it on homebrew biodiesel.

$.70/gallon, and burns cleaner!!!

Biodiesel