While I respect CavVet's view of the flag I disagree with his opinion of what it represents.

We are talking about the Confederate Battle Flag,which to me represents the heroism demonstrated in battle by those who fought under it.

It represents the blood they shed for the defense of their home States....not for the defense of SLAVERY.We know the great majority of combatants for the Southern States did not own  slaves, and lived hard lives themselves as free men.

Right or wrong it is part of history and cannot be "swept under the rug".

While we recognize the atrocities committed by foreign troops against our own during war (Japan in WWII,NVN in the VN "conflict",England in the Rev.War,etc.....IMHO it would be silly to hate their respective flags. [:)]

I have to agree with the old man on that point, but we need to look at the real issue with the flag, is it a symbol of racism???

To me the Nazi flag (which stands for racial purity, I believe) has been corrupted into a symbol of hate. Why? Because they basically made the flag represent something totally different, a symbol of oppression. Seeking purity in one's self is one thing, forcing it on others (to the point of mass murder) is another. They created this flag for the simple purpose of realizing Hitler's dream of a new Germany. Hate, violence, and oppression...

The Confederate Flag is symbolic of a period of war and division amongst the US and perhaps a sore spot in many people's minds. BUT, it is not a symbol of racism or hate. By it's own historic creation and use, the flag symbolized the unity of the South in an era where division amongst states was as powerful as division amongst Arab countries. Opinions varied tremendously from the north to the south on issues from trade to slavery. (Although at the time MOST people, north or south, believed that slavery should be abolished.)

The country divided and Lincoln, fearing his own reputation as the man who allowed the country to tear itself apart, violated the very constitution which the country was founded on and went to war. The issues of the civil war had nothing to do with equality or slavery, sure it was a great motivational force in keeping our history looking respectable, but the truth of the matter is we needed an excuse to go to war.

Throughout history excuses have been used to begin conflicts, even Hitler used the "unification of German people" as his excuse for early aggressions. He got away with things for a while, and eventually the world saw through the unification excuse to reality. My current fears is that China is basically following the same path, as they continue to push to absorb their neighbors.

The Confederate Flag is a historic symbol of a time where our own brothers went to battle because they felt that freedom was more important than unification, and vice-versa. Look at the atrocities from the war and learn from the people who fought it. Soldiers and armies ransacked towns, raped women, and destroyed their own lands for their benefit. Are those the actions of freedom fighters? The north then took the "freed" slaves they captured and either threw them into battle in high casualty situations (with NO training) or used them in their foraging, serving, and pillaging needs.

Again, to put it shortly, the war was NOT about slavery. Racism existed on both sides and proved evident through the actions of men of the era. Sure we made advances, but those advances were already in progress in the north and south.

NOW, lets look at the misuse of the Confederate Flag as a symbol of hate. In 1956, Georgia adopted the flag as it's state flag due to the issue of integration in it's schools. They took it as a rallying symbol (much as the entire south did in the war), but this time it was not a call to arms, not a call to defend their rights. They took the flag to heart as a symbol of oppression and hatred. This has tainted the flag, but it has done more to destroy the state of Georgia than tarnish the history of the south.

Personally, I think Chris Rock (the comedian) had the best ideas for a NEW Georgia state flag... (had to see his HBO Show to understand this one!)

Just my $.02

-- GB

Everyone needs to also keep in mind the desecration of their own countries flag.

To me the AMERICAN FLAG is a sacred thing. Do I mind people using it as clothing, or in their clothing? No. Why? Because to me, that is a symbol of absolute love of their flag and their country. Wearing a US Flag Bikini is a beautiful thing. (Heehee!)

The burning of the flag, or the use of the flag as a rally cry for hate or violence is an absolute disgrace. While I realize it's within one's right to protest in such manner, as a patriot, I would strike against those who would do so. If you hate an act or stance that you're country is taking, then do something about it, burning a flag or disgracing it should be punishable by death or exportation. Don't like the county, then get out.

I would love to think that if another revolution ever occurred, those of us fighting for freedom and to restore the glory of what this county has always stood for would fly the American flag with pride.

So even if the KKK used the American flag as a rally point. (Which I know many of them they do.) It wouldn't corrupt it in my mind.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but a symbol of freedom and unity can stand up through its tarnishing.

-- GB

The Confederate flags means nothing to me, neither does the any other flag: Red Cross, Nazi or UN flag. It’s what it symbolizes to those that fly these flags that matters to me. I posted a message attempting to troll for those to whom the flag is a symbol of their superiority and discovered a few who attacked me with the same kind hate and malice that I directed at their symbol. I even let the cat out of the bag before I even finished the post but the hate blinded those I aimed at. For those that might have got caught up in the attack by accident and piled on and therefore didn’t read the post with comprehension I apologize – I wasn’t aiming at you. I did hit my target though and got the exact response from him that I knew I would get – exactly, a dead center “x” bullseye.

The flag I serve under is the stars and bars of the American flag. I am an American period. Not a Black-American, not a Northern-American, an American. I have good understanding of my heritage but can do nothing about it one way or another so why bother feeling pride over the luck of my birth? I have no idea how many of my ancient relatives died on both sides of the “War of Northern Aggression” or the “Civil War”. The Georgian flag still flies over a small town in Georgia named for my long dead relatives. A US Navy ship was named for a hero of the The Second War for Independence who died fighting for the American side, he was great great something but other than an interesting remark during dinner conversation who cares?  Who honestly [b]really[/b] gives a rat’s behind what happened to my great, great, great, great grandfather 140 years ago? Neat stuff to know but I’m not going to go around challenging others to a fight because 12 out of 16 of my male relatives died fighting for the cause of states rights (most on the southern side BTY).

Honor your dead but is the war for state rights going to be like the Catholics and the Protestants in Northern Ireland or the Arabs and Jews of the Middle East?

Someone issued me the challenge “Come down here and say that” OK, very first chance I get. What would [b]you[/b] alone do about it? Do you have so much false pride in something you contribute nothing or so very little to that you’re willing to actually challenge another to a duel? My great great great great great grand daddy beat your great great great great uncle! Do you even hear how stupid that sounds?

And no, I’m not going to accept ignorant behavior just because I’m a moderator. Carefully read my original post again. “It just doesn’t matter” should have been a bit of a clue. F[I]orget[/I] them.

(cont.)

I feel the same about those that go crazy because the local football or baseball team defeats the next cities team. I just don’t get it. If I’m playing on the team it’s different. I do enjoy the game, wear the team logo, and even cheer for “my” team but you’ll not find me arguing with those idiots from Northern Riverside that they’re inferior because their team lost. I’m noting getting into a bar brawl because some ignorant loud mouth from Northern Corona gets enough beer into him to wear allegiance to the death for his colors. This behavior is very similar to the inner city gangs turf wars. Gee guys [I]brighten[/I] up.

I just don’t get it.

I also don’t get why some people, including many notable and quite vocal people here, will vehemently attack someone based on their location above or below the Mason-Dixon line or the amount of melanin in their skin. I think that by pre-judging so easily it makes a complex life simpler for those people. I do make some judgments based on their judgments of others. In my 20 years of military service I have put my life in the hands of people of all colors, sexs, religions and ethnic origins. One of my heroes is General Collin Powel a man with a dark complexion – does the color of his skin have anything to do with the content of his character?

Ted Roosevelt said words to the effect that this country isn’t big enough for hyphenated Americans and I agree. It is odd that those who hate Black-Americans get so spun up and sensitive when someone takes even a lighthearted stab at Southern-Americans.

I refuse to let anyone hyphenate me and routinely put down any skin color I want on government forms requesting such information. It just doesn’t matter a rat’s behind what color they, you, or anyone thinks I am. To quote the last Jerry Springer show “you don’t know me” [;)]. The 50 or so members between Washington and California of this site that do know me know better.

Can't we get along?

I think the main point here is, is the flag a symbol of racism?

I think no. Certain people may USE it in their racist actions as a rally point, but they also use the American flag, baseball, and god knows what to rally behind as well.

My big confusion with this whole racist crap is why? Every one of us is AMERICAN. Color of skin, sexual preferences, religious beliefs, whatever... we were founded by many countries fighting for a piece of some long forsaken profit. Somewhere along the way, French Americans, Spanish Americans, African Americans, Native Americans, English Americans, Italian Americans, (see where I'm going) ALL GOT TOGETHER and became AMERICANS. (Well except Native Americans who we slaughtered and abused... but that's another discussion.)

Why is it now that the land of the free and the home of the brave hangs a sign on lady liberty that says, "no vacancies."

-- GB

"Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

I consider myself Spanish, but also an American.

I was born in Puerto Rico which is a US Territory and thus I am a direct CITIZEN of the US, but people don't know their asses from their elbows and so I constantly here, "oh so you have a green card."

The reason we consider ourselves African Americans, or Spanish, or Italian, is because we're proud of our heritage. There's nothing wrong with that, but we need to also view ourselves as American's united and not divided.

Gun owners seem to grasp this concept easier. I think it's because we're viewed as a minority AND as evil people by so many. We're constantly pitted against others and forced to change our lifestyles so we learn that fighting back TOGETHER is our only way. If we divided and fought each other, the government would rip us apart and we would be walking around with .22's and BB Guns...

-- GB

Oh, kiss me, I made another contribution to the NRA today. (Personal one!)   ]=)