Well, it looks like my butt is on the chopping block. The writing’s on the wall. After 10 years with my company, I was invited to a meeting for tomorrow, in which I am 100% sure they will give me the boot. It’s after hours with two VP’s, which in itself is bad news. The company I work for is French (aka assholes). They hired a new director of R&D based in France, who, of course, desires to move all software development to his homeland. He knows nothing about the US market, our customer’s needs, and how the logistics business operates in the US, however he is hell bent on increasing the size of his fiefdom in France. The only way he can do it is to get rid of the US software division; hence my butt and my boss’s butt are in his way. My boss is a VP and I’m project lead software engineer. So, for the past year, the Frenchman’s been bad-mouthing my manager, the quality of our work, etc., all in the hope of finding an excuse to boot us. Our work has been exceptional; our customer’s are very happy and have written letters of praise to management, but it makes no difference because this is a political thing.

I know in my heart this is the best thing to happen to me because the company sucks, and for the past 3 years I’ve just been putting in my time. Yet, it sucks to be booted for political reasons. Worse yet my wife is pregnant and we have a baby due in November. I guess on the bright side, we have no debt of any kind and a surplus of about $150k we had planned to use to buy a home. So, if we have to dip into the surplus, it’s there, but I was hoping to avoid it.

The job market is still good here, although they have been layoffs in the technology sector. I’m not worried too much about finding a new job, but I have to ask myself: do I want to get into another rut, working for someone else for the rest of my life? On the one hand, I have a responsibility to provide for my family, yet on the other hand I know I will never make anything more than the going rate working for someone else. So, my boss (who is sure he’s getting the boot as well) says we should form our own company, working as short-term contractors in the interim until we sign a couple of good, long-term contracts. He has a plan and wants me to be his partner, and from experience I know the guys is an excellent manager and engineer, so maybe I shouldn’t take it so hard. In fact, if anything I should be thankful for being forced to make a change in my life.

So, here I am worrying about current income and how to avoid dipping into savings, yet I know the best long-term thing for me is to be independent. At close to 40, I do not relish the thought of being turned and burned by another tech company. If I’m going to burn myself out, I’d rather do it to myself striving for the big payoff down the road.

Have any of you guys ever been in this situation? What would you do? Would you take the safe route?

The place I worked for closed down after 10 years. I didn't get any severance at all.

[b]damn it guys[/b]
I'm trying to become a civilian in two years when my six year enlistment is up. All these horror stories are scaring the daylights out of me.

VB programmer here!  The Job market F^*&ing STINKS!  That goes for both contract & salary, but especially for contract.  Im in Dallas,TX and have been doing contracts for the last few years.  The money has been great, but those days are over for the time being.  Its going to be at least 6 months until things start to turn around (next year sometime, maybe).  Everywhere you look companies are slashing costs and/or not funding new projects.  

Take it from someone who has been looking for a new programming job for the last 2 months.  A few people from one of the former companies i worked at have been out of work since the first of the year!

Ive got several years experience, microsoft certifications and a degree to boot. At least recruiters call me, but that is as far as its going.  The deal is that the managers that place the few job ads out there are getting their purse strings cut by upper management.

Add to the situation, the 10,000 laid off at Nortel, 15,000 laid off at Verizon.  H1 visa types being imported from India who get paid 1 bowl of rice/day. This is seriously going to cut into my gun show follies!

In the mean time, im getting a job as an auto parts delivery driver because there just isnt jack shit out there right now.  For every job ad placed, the recruiters get blasted with 2000 resumes.

The best you can hope for is winning the lottery or learning how to make money in the stock market. I took off in April to daytrade, big mistake!  Not only did i loose money at daytrading (not givng up yet though), i hit a brick wall when i started looking for a job again.  I finally started getting successful at stock trading, but ive stopped because i dont want to risk money i might need to pay bills.  I will begin trading again shortly after i start working at my new dandy (and hopefully temporary) job as a delivery driver.  

My goal is 1-2 million in 2-5 years. The toughest part is getting over the 50K hump.  From there (from the daytraders ive talked who have hung in there) its a short walk to 1mil.  Actually i perfer whats called "swing" trading, which is trading a buy/sell over about a 2-5 day time period.

Hang in there, but try to learn how to trade stocks or invest, because working and putting your money in the bank wont do it. There is also no such thing as job security anymore.

Start kissing some French ass is all I have to say.

Hey Eastwood, we're in the same profession! I'm a delivery driver after the market closes to pay the bills.  I'm making better returns, percentage-wise now than I did during the bubble.  Absolute amounts are a lot smaller, but I'm way less reckless and shrewder.

Once I get some nagging debts paid off I'm enrolling in a local global portfolio management MBA program and try to swing a job doing what I do for a firm.

That's strange. I have never seen a McDonalds go out of business. [:P]

If things get any worse for me I might have to see if I can go work for VPC.

F*CK THE FRENCH !

Patton should have slapped that stupid hat off General DeGaul's head when the French army was allowed to enter Paris first....

screw 'em and feed 'em beans

Ill probably need to get a job in the evening or nightshift so i can interview during the day.  I would prefer to go back to programming that way i can at least be at my computer during the day so i can manage my swing trades.  Now since im going to be gone duing the day, im back to the old days of trading the daily chart.

Seriously though, i dont care how much i loose, or how many times i loose it all, im sticking with it.  Sooner or later, its going to catch because ive just about learned all my mistakes. Usually its just getting to trigger happy.  

The market closes at 12 noon in Alaska, which makes it kind of easy to find accomodating jobs.  a CDL helps too.

The market presents way more opportunity than I can find anywhere else, given my skills and knowledge.  That's why I do it.  

I thought wishing wells were always open? :)

Eastwood, it's a little different here near Silicon Valley. In fact, I was checking the boards and there appears to be plenty of jobs for VB, C++, Java, etc., that are not being filled by H1-B's. I'm seeing more and more statements such as "no H1-B's" in the employment ads. This is especially true with the defense contractors as they commonly require US citizenship for employment. The majority of H1-B's are held by head hunting firms who grossly overcharge for their services. Employers are now starting to realize it's not a great bargain to pay the head hunters $110/hour for an inexperienced foreigner who the firm is paying $30/hour. In fact, I know of a lot of companies who are dumping the H1-B's entirely.

Our economy is not yet at the point where there are across-the-board hiring freezes. This is a very dynamic area, with companies popping up (and crashing down) on a daily basis. There is a constant need for new hires. Some of the larger companies have frozen hiring and had lay-offs, but the smaller companies will always have a need for new people, and this is where the action tends to be in any case.

Actually, day trading was in the back of my mind, but I don't know if I can handle the stress. Maybe when I was 30. :)

Anyone need a C++, Java, you-name-it-api/os senior engineer with 15 years experience? he he

[can't type when I'm pissed]

C++??? Maybe Seattle WOULD be a shopping grounds for ya....????  .com headquarters PLUS CCW....


Consider YOUR happiness, it will do wonders for blood pressure, free time AND life expectancy....

Did you say CCW? What's the deal with AR's up there? Still legal? You're right -- life is too short to be unhappy with your work. That's why I was thinking of going out on my own with my boss, because we get along so well. France sucks!

AeroE, no, it's a French logistics company called Neopost. They come to the US to visit wearing green suits, pink ties, and white socks thinking they are real cool. And the women don't shave.

mattja - if your more server side rather than presentation layer, I may be able to help you out if your looking for a job in SF.  Drop me an e-mail off-line if you want.

So this is why you are weaseling out of the chabot shoot. [;)]

Hey, if you can take a punch and don't mind changing diapers on fifteen year olds, I gotta job for ya. [:)]

Sometimes these changes are the best thing.  My wife was laid off last year (half by choice though, company sucked) and is now making twice what she was making a couple years ago and is much happier to boot.

Good luck with the search.

You need to go rent the movie, Office Space.

Hey Imbroglio.  What field of work are you really in?   Judging from your Photoshop work, I'd guess it's in the graphics sector?  I need to know so I can tell your future wife.

Recently, I built the back-end for a data driven knowledge-based system for logistics. It implemented with DLLs and COM automation servers, using SQL Server 7 for data storage. Fully multi-threaded, uses our little TCP/IP protocol to communicate with clients. I also built the client-side COM components necessary to communicate to the server via TCP/IP. C++ is my main language. I had a Java project a couple of years ago, but I need to brush up on it again as things have changed.

Here’s a link to the server product

[url]www.neopostlogistics.com/pr02.html[/url]

I wrote the back end to the iLS.Rate product.

My specialty, however, is system integration. If you want to see some of my work, check this link

[url]www.neopostlogistics.com/pr03.html[/url]

The WinLink product is my doing. I designed and wrote the majority of the code behind it. I can’t wait to see how the French will support that product. They don’t have a clue.

Thanks for the tip xsquid!

No man, my wife has had me home shopping forever! he he But now the home will have to wait, for obvious reasons. Poor wife! For better or for poorer, right?

My friend worked at the juvenile hall in SF for 2 years. If he turned his back for a minute the little hoodlums would be all over him, sticking their sharpened plastic combs in his back. You think you have it rough? Are the 15 year-olds boys or girls? he he

My wife’s sister-in-law just got axed too. She was working for Adaptec I think. They had to rent two rooms in their new house in Union City just to make the mortgage. Hell, if this happened after we bought I’d be really screwed!

Im in the same boat. I work in Software QA (Automation) at a small dot.com in "Silicon Valley"..the company as a whole is going down the toilet. I survived 1 layoff last April, but made enemies out of the Director of Engineering..He screwed up, got embarassed and blamed me. Bast#rd then decided to completely isolate me and cut me completely out of all meetings.

Anyway..several weeks ago he was holed up in the VP of Engineering's office (same old BS that they did before the last layoff: just drawing up a hit list).

One of the guys whose job it is to inform people of company meetings screwed up..I got to see the list.

Now the Board of "Directors" (I guess they like to "think" that they can run a company..into the ground that is..is going to meet) this week.
Seeing how we only got enough funding to last us till the end of the year and we are not meeting our sales figures....
Another Layoff is looming for me..

But instead of just sitting in my cube...I am out looking for a job.

Scrw em.

ARs are legal...beta mags are legal.....AOW, DD & Sound Supressors (Possession) are legal...CCW is SHALL ISSUE....If you can pass a NICS, you WILL get a CCW in 30 days.....

Only downside is NO MG....AND, to purchase at gunshow, you MUST be a member (25 a yr) of the Association.

Bostonterrier97, it goes with the territory, doesn't it? I should have gone the academic route. My wife's other sister-in-law is a researcher at PARC in Palo Alto. No lay-offs, just sit in cubes all day designing the newest tech. It guess it pays to have a PhD from Stanford!

How's the job outlook?

Jeez, every time I hear this sh*t I ask myself what the hell am I doing in the PRK? I hope you guys don't take this stuff for granted! We did, and look where we are today.

My boss and I got the boot today, just like I thought. They offered us 4 weeks severance pay, which pissed my boss off to no end because he was expecting 10 weeks (as was I). He's getting a lawyer. I might tag along just to see how it goes. I may not get the 10 weeks, but 4 is for sure. Why not try?

I'm taking 6 weeks off to investigate 3-4 opportunities, one including forming a new company with my old boss and some good engineers we know. Looks promising, even after the short time we discussed it.

Not sure if I want to dive right back into 9-5, so I figure 6 weeks should be a fair amount of time to investigate the scene and see what's available.

All the guys at work are pissed. They are telling me why would they lay off the most experienced people, still in their prime, and keep the junior engineers? Not for reasons of quality; the French want to run the show from France and although they have no experience in the US market AND no products to sell here, they are arrogant enough to think they can handle it. Gotta love them. No wonder the Germans kicked their ass twice.

My boss told me to expect a call from them in 4-5 weeks asking that I come back as a part-time contractor. Sure, senior level engineer in a highly specialized field to enhance the system I myself wrote. No one has a clue how it works and I wrote no documentation! ha ha ha No problem, that will be $250/hour with a 40 hour retainer up front. he he

Just do what I am doing.... Practicing for my new job.

You want fries with that???

Thank you, please drive through!

I told that to my boss today, He is in Salt Lake City, I am in Phoenix. I could hear over the phone him soiling himself when I said "I am practicing for my new job".

He finally did laugh (a nervous laugh) when he heard "You want fries with that?".

I know that the people above me want to keep me, but they can't give me a raise. But I just can't take the BS anymore. I know he is having a hell of a time dealing with the BS also. Damn re-orgs.

So I am slowly looking for another position inside the company, but getting ready to look outside. My problem, my skill set puts me exactly where I am supposed to be in the company. And I am tired of fighting the same fights over and over again.

I know this is off the main topic, I just needed confessional time. Sorry.

mattja, with your background you shouldn't worry about finding your next gig.  I've sent you a link to a few developer positions here at my present company.  Don't know about the 9to5 though.... it's a startup[BD]

BT97 - we got the same kinda gig going.  SQE folks with automation, tools and performance testing are still in pretty big demand even with the dot com meltdown.

Time to think consulting, independent contractor, go into business for yourself ya know?

You know your customers, corporate-wise and people-wise and you probably have a pretty good list. They know you and you can be there to help when the new guys screw up.

Nothin' wrong with an opportunity because it has footprint on its backside.

Guzzler, I feel your pain. My soon to be ex-company normally has a policy of moving people around internally, and they always gave people the option of taking different jobs. I remember once they gave us a tax accountant and told us to make him a software engineer. This is how the French think. For the most part, they are stupid. In my case, the French wanted to take control of everything, so they killed our department, layed off 6 senior guys and now hope to get by with 2 junior engineers in France. So for us, no place to go, so we're out.

xsquid, thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm going to check that link. Actually, I wouldn't expect 9-5 from a start-up. More likely, 9-9 and Saturdays, right? But that's cool if there is a payoff (i.e. options). Anyone there pushing 40? :)

Tom A, that's what my boss was saying. I actually have my own product I developed nights and weekends over the past 3 years, and I'm thinking that combined with my boss's ideas, and we might have what we need to start on our own. Problem is it's in an entirely different field, and my boss is a little stuck in his ways as far as learning new stuff. Oh well, maybe I can still suck a few grand out of my ex-exployer. That's fair, right? :)

Maybe I'll just spend the next 6 weeks shooting! ha ha