Gun Shows a format for racism?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gun Shows a format for racism?

Posted: 7/8/2001 7:06:34 PM EDT

I have attended many gun shows over the past few years; the past two shows including the one in Mt. Bethel, Pennsylvania, I attended today have had racist literature placed on every car in the lot. They said that it is not the lack of gun control that is ruining America, but Jews, women, and blacks that were responsible for "The New World Order."
Legitimate sportsmen and collectors need to be aware of such attempts to use our rights to further their cause. We should boycott any events where such behavior is allowed. If not, we all loose in the end.

Posted: 7/8/2001 7:12:27 PM EDT

[#1]

Just throw the rags away - probably an attempt by anti-Bill of Rights group to get to you.

Posted: 7/8/2001 7:24:59 PM EDT

[#2]

Here at the Gun Shows, pro NAZI groups sell T-shirts and other related items. All which most of us would consider outragous, and I can't beleive the Gov't has not shut 'em down. After all 100s of thousands of Allied forces died so shit like this would not happen.

In a nutshell, law abiding gunshow goers and exhibitors end up getting a bad name and in some ways are stereotyped to these groups. I am a gun owner, and I resent being labeled some type of freak. Applications for table rentals for these organisations or anyone peddling their crap should be refused by the gun show committees.

Anyone got any comments....

Posted: 7/8/2001 7:43:40 PM EDT

[#3]

I can't even remember seeing HATE-RACIST things at any gun show's I've attended (maybe just luck or not paying attention). Of course I've seen, Nazi memorbilia, but always in a History/collector setting.

I don't care for Hate-Racist literature. Unfortunetly, we have to put up with it being there, as a part of "Free Speech".

If I were to find this type of garbage on my car, I would make a point of holding the paper up the air and carry it to the nearest garbage can, crumble it and slam dunk it. After awhile these groups, might get the idea, they and their ideals are not welcome here.

(edited to denote that GoatBoy is up working late. My previous post I wasn't yet a "AR15 Member" and am now a member, on this post.....come to PaPa #223)

Posted: 7/8/2001 8:29:58 PM EDT

[#4]

i always see nazi stuff, but its always at a militaria booth, so its fine

Posted: 7/8/2001 8:37:28 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
i always see nazi stuff, but its always at a militaria booth, so its fine

View Quote

ditto

as far as the racict crap just throw it away when i was in high school we had the same crap going on just being stuffed into lockers we just ignored it and the neo nazists stopped doing it

Posted: 7/8/2001 8:37:35 PM EDT

[#6]

1feral1: Although I do not agree with the racist tripe peddled by these pieces of amphibian shit they do have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to express their opinions. The government can't shut them down because the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution will not permit them to. In Australia you have no such guarantee and I feel for you. You also have no right to keep and bear arms according to your government.

Gun show committees are there to make money, they don't care who rents a booth, as long as they pay up. And frankly, I don't like the idea of businesses regulating rights either. That's why many gun owners no longer purchase weapons from S&W, they tried to inflict undue regulations on distributors and dealers.

Posted: 7/8/2001 8:37:53 PM EDT

[#7]

Excerpt from the Show Rules of WAC:

"12. The sale of literature on the manufacture of unlawful explosive devices, silencers, full automatic firearms, booby-traps, and/or illegal terrorist tactics, etc. is prohibited. All anti-Semitic, racist and hate literature is prohibited. The sale of targets depicting the likeness of American Politicians is prohibited. If any of the above or other related material not listed shows up at a WAC gathering, the owner of that material shall be asked to remove it immediately."

I saw nothing on cars in the lot. The Nazi table was obviously collector's stuff, accompanied by a sign that said something to the extent of "MOMENTOS OF AN EXAMPLE OF GOVERNMENT GONE BAD!". Sections with books had a number of "interesting" titles (even on how to steal food from the grocery store), but nothing to get anyone's panties in a tether over, as far as I could tell.

I agree that the whole "hate/racism" thing has NO PLACE at a gun show...it would seem to propagate the whole "GUNS=HATE=HATE CRIMES=BAN GUNS (ad nauseum)" saga.

Posted: 7/8/2001 9:57:31 PM EDT

[#8]

Was there any contact info on the papers? If so contact them and tell them that you do not appreciate it and that gun owners do not appreciate being associated with people that would distribute such garbage.
At any rate contact the promoter and tell them. Most shows have security in the building. I'm sure they would be happy to alert them for the next show and have them watch the lot.
Another thing you might consider. It pisses me off when someone puts anything under my wiper blade. The police would like hearing about the vandalism that was created if several cars were reported as being scratched by belt buckles and the like by the people placing them on the cars.
Or call your local chapter of the NAACP and tell them. Explain that you and a group of other white gun owners have discussed it and do not appreciate it. Invite some of them to the next show to monitor the parking lot. That ought to take care of it.
Do [i]not[/i] call a local feminist group and sick them on the people. [i]No one[/i] deserves that.;)

Posted: 7/9/2001 7:21:47 AM EDT

[#9]

I have seen racist stuff at some gun shows, but less lately.
It used to be that I couldn't go to a show in this area without seeing someone set up with the racist crap, and at least one table that was selling William Pierce books.
Lately, however, these people don't seem to be coming to the local shows. Don't know if they go to shows elsewhere or not.

Posted: 7/9/2001 8:54:11 AM EDT

[#10]

I agree that Nazi memorabilia is not a bad thing at the gun shows, they are, after all a part of history, and a reminder of man's frailties, but the literature (by Dr. Pierce) put on every car in the lot is against everything we, as gun owners believe in.
In the case of Dr. Pierce, his speech contains many half truths that are in fact false. He is great at intellectualizing; that is his only strength. So let him know where we stand. The literature listed www.natell-pa.com

Posted: 7/9/2001 9:05:52 AM EDT

[#11]

I am sorry, the racist literature was placed by www.natall-pa.com Ther site is just plain laughable.

Posted: 7/9/2001 9:26:52 AM EDT

[#12]

I've actually started to see a growth in this area as well. At first it was the Nazi items being sold at shows by history buffs or shown as parts of exhibits along side other WW2 items, but lately I've seen people with booths up selling BRAND NEW (as in custom made for them, or made BY them) Nazi flags, WELCOME MATS, towels, patches, etc.

WTF!?!?!?!?!

I find this not only insulting, but embarrassing as a gun owner. To think that news crews go in at times to film local gun shows, only to find those assholes mixed in with the respectable dealers infuriates me. What the hell kind of message are we sending to others???

My only thought is to rush right back to the ticket counter and demand a refund. (And do so VERY loudly!). Seeing as how it's not a constant at any given show (around her anyhow), you never know what to expect. Most of them have seemed to be clean, but ones I travel to seem to be getting worse...

-- GB

BTW - I wonder who buys this shit, since they obviously have to be making money to keep coming back!!!

Posted: 7/9/2001 9:51:13 AM EDT

[#13]

I remember an ATF Agent who testified before Congress that he would evaluate gun shows based upon how many steps he would take into the show before he saw a portrait of Adolf Hitler.

I understand and support the collection of true war trophies and memorabilia, but I abhor the rest. I would not, however, go beyond simply permitting the gun show promoters to run their shows the way they see fit. Most shows have a notice that 'Printed Materials May Not be Handed Out Without Permission of...' That's the promoter's decision, not mine or yours.

It is simply beyond the reach of government to tell its citizens how they should act or think in matters of politics. And like it or not, the best way to kill a bad idea is to let it air in public.

Eric The(GunShowHabitue)Hun[>]:)]

Posted: 7/9/2001 9:51:40 AM EDT

[#14]

At the Big Town show in Mesquite, TX this weekend, there was no "hate" stuff in evidence except one customer. This guy shows up in combat boots with black BDU trousers bloused over them, a Nazi t-shirt, a black Levi's denim vest with a ton of swastika patches and SS insignia on the collars. On his tiny, neuron-free cranium there rested a black military-style cover with an SS death's head front and center.

This guy was met with universal snickers as he perused the "fantasy knife and sword" table. He couldn't make up his mind between the Klingon sword or the Heavy Metal 2000 sword. It's a hard choice, I know.

I think the best response to these types is laughter.

FMCDH
Semper Fidelis
Jarhead out.

-------------------
“Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of dangerous amateurs.”
--Unknown

Posted: 7/9/2001 11:20:38 AM EDT

[#15]

I wonder why they wont give me any propaganda ??????

Posted: 7/9/2001 12:51:26 PM EDT

[#16]

At Crossroads of the West in Phoenix just this past weekend out in the parking lot some clowns were handing out flyers asking showgoers to boycott the show because they had rented a table at some previous show and were selling or distributing some kinda Nazi stuff (current stuff, not WWII stuff). The promoter either kicked them out or wouldn't rent to them again, so they were pissed. While I saw people reading their flyers, I didn't see anyone leaving the line to get in the show.

That's that old stuff about screaming "First Amendment!" at the top of yer lungs while distributing literature at an event controlled by a private gun show promoter. The 1st, for Naziboy's information, applies only to *government* controls on free speech. These people can go pound sand.

Posted: 7/9/2001 1:00:56 PM EDT

[#17]

I help run a Gun Show (the ONLY Gun Show) here in R.I.. We have regulations which prospective table renters must agree to prior to set-up which clearly prohibit materials of a racist, totalitarian, etc. nature, with the exception of genuine historic memorabilia tastefully didplayed. We've never had a problem, inside or outside the hall. Many of our exhibitors are vets, and know full well the price paid to flush that kind of filth down the toilet of history.

Posted: 7/9/2001 1:09:00 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
1feral1: Although I do not agree with the racist tripe peddled by these pieces of amphibian shit they do have a Constitutionally guaranteed right to express their opinions.

View Quote

This is true, but they don't have the right to be touching other people's property, their cars, in order to leave this crap under the wiper.

Posted: 7/9/2001 1:09:02 PM EDT

[#19]

i dont give a shit if they are selling the stuff even the new stuff i dont have to buy it there not forcing me to buy it but i dont like it when they force litature on me. i feel the same way with nay other group not just the neo nazis

Posted: 7/9/2001 2:11:27 PM EDT

[#20]

I think that selling any type of hate material at a gun show should NOT be allowed. I'm talking across the board, anything from New Age Nazi crap, to funny shirts with people's faces in some crosshairs, to targets of anti-gun figures.

It's one thing to make a joke on the range or bring it to your club (if they allow it!), but it's an entirely different thing to peddle the stuff at public shows.

-- GB

Posted: 7/9/2001 2:21:48 PM EDT

[#21]

Regarding Nazi millitaria.We have to understand that with guns often comes a fascination with all things millitary.
Medals and flags and the like are no exception.
There is nothing wrong with selling Nazi medals or memrobillia [b]from WW2[/b] at a gun show.
Fact is, the Germans were a more interesting enemy than the Japs to most gun show atendees, because most gun-show atendees are white, and so were the Germans.

BUT, I am in 100% agreement that "Replica", or modern Nazi material does indeed paint a bad face on gun owners as a whole. This includes the MacDonald books, and the like.
You all know my opinions on this topic, but they are MY PERSONAL opinions. They aren't that of gun owners as a whole (Even though I wish they were, because I am right).
To say "Stop selling any WW2 millitartia" is dumb. It is history. Like it or not.
But modern day incarnations of the swaz are best left to mail order.

Posted: 7/9/2001 5:19:25 PM EDT

[#22]

I actually own some Japanese and German items from WW2, but I also own a number of Civil War replicas and authentic items, all due to a love of history...

I don't have any problem with historic collections or items at gun shows, I just don't like the typical moronic crap you tend to run across at some of these shows, such as the previously mentioned welcome mats...

Posted: 7/9/2001 5:44:41 PM EDT

[#23]

Gun shows are nothing more than a way for racist right-wing-radicals to obtain illegal guns and information how to illegaly convert thos guns to full-auto. This racist stuff is nothing new, some of you will dismiss it just because you want to buy guns with out a background check. I wonder why you don't want a back ground check? [smoke]

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gun Shows a format for racism?

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