Well the Army didn't ship me because of my toenail, and I lost my slot until next year, so I am stuck at home.

Anyways...

I have 4 close friends.  These guys will stand up for me in a second, and vice-versa.  One of them is a young vietnamese kid named Spike.  We were at a club last night looking for women, and spike saw some of the Vietnamese kids that have a problem with him (something that happened a long time ago, and he has already had his ass kicked for).  We saw them, and they knew who we were, but they didn't do anythng.  Later that night, Spike and three of my other friends went into the inside part of the club and I stayed outside.  I started to leave ten minutes later to go home, and as I walk out the entrance, somebody was fighting.  I see spike and I go to talk to him and he is pissed off and rambling about his glasses breaking or something.  All of a sudden 6 vietnamese guys come out of the club and one hits him in the back of the head.  I pull him away and push him behind me, standing inbetween (waiting to get my ass kicked) and some bouncers break it up, and the Vietnamese run back in the club.  Here is what happened:

My friends were in the club, when about 15 of the vietnamese ran up and jumped them.  One of my friends got hit in the head with 4 beer bottles, the other got his face fucked up by one, and my other friend and spike where hit but not seriously hurt.

We called the cops, and 1 guy ended up getting arrested (the ringleader).  The cops words were "Well, we didn't see anything so what would you like me to do?"

So, one of my boys (like my brother) could have been killed, the others maybe also if bouncers weren't around, and the cops aren't going to do shit.  This has been going on for 2 years, and the Vietnamese guys just won't stop.  I am too young to legally be armed, so are my friends, but who knows where these guys will stop?  They know all the places we hangout, and we aren't going to change them.  I don't know what limits these boys have, and I don't think any.  

Help? Any suggestions, any weapons I can carry (am 17).  
James

Pepper Spray

Well, you're first mistake is you enlisted in the Army and not the Marine Corps, but anyway...

I'd be REEEEAL careful if I were you. This could be your LIFE youre dealing with here. A few things come to mind:

1) Hang out at different places. If you dont want to do that, youd better WATCH YOURSELF and DONT be a dumbass. Talking tough and trying to prove something will only get you killed.

2) If you carry a weapon it might not be smart to pull it, unless you REALLY need it. I'm reminded of the Bugs Bunny cartoon where each person started out with a toothpick and ended up with a damn howitzer.

3) Hang out in BIG groups. Preferrably with big guys too.

Well I would suggest a chain.  A smaller linked chain with 2 weighted ends(or one just grab the end without the weight.  You can wear it as a belt and no one would be the wiser till they got it upside the head.

Now that I think of it, #3 is your best bet. If there are 4 of them make sure you bring at least 7 of your buddies when you go out.


Does your state have CCW? Now that I'm typing, I cant see where youre from. Do you have to be 18 or 21?

i don't talk shit.  although i am likely to be pissed cause they  could have killed my friend.  i will get some pepper spray, that is a good idea.  we don't have big groups, or big guys.  These guys don't fight well, just in numbers, and they will keep coming back, how do i get them to stop?

if there are 7 of us, their are 20 of them, they have unlimited numbers.  they work like that

buy a 26" steel baton with the steel ball at the end. (its extendable) at [url]http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=ZBB%2D663&mscssid=U80R9K31TE1N9N0A1LJLG74RGR3QE0BB[/url]

[img]http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/product_images/1259/ZBB-663.jpg[/img]

just an idea and it looks cool when you flick it out. lol, or just get some pepper spray or mace.

rifleer,
Can you give a little info as to what the issue is that these dudes have with "Spike"?  Maybe examining that issue could lead to a solution.

Well.............

Get yer ass into shape and learn to fight multiple attackers REAL well. Get your CCW when you can.

Try to stick with big numbers though. The only way you will get these guys to settle down is if you kick ALL of their asses. You're chances are obviously better with more pals.

Do these punks have guns? I suppose so....

The batons are actually illegal in California, believe it or not.

Well, it is California, so I guess it's pretty believable after all.

Get an M60 an fill those vietnamese up with 7.62 and shoot a pineapple grenade into whichever fox holes they came out of.




Edited to remove racial slurs!

Well it seems that part of Scarecrow sitll hasnt returned from South East Asia yet...

Find different places to hang out for the next year, get your buddies to go to a different place too or they might get dead while your gone.  That is really all the choice you have, if enough people stay away, the bar will have to have the cops come in and get rid of Vietnamese or go out of business.

Even here in Arizona, going to such places armed is considered trolling and is frowned upon by the law.

I think I have a simple answer.  Stop hanging out at places where dirtbags congregate.  Bars and nightclubs are at the top of my personal list.  If you intend to get anywhere in your new Army career, I would suggest that you develop the same attitude.

GySgt D  USMC

I really don't have a hard time believing that all the other people in the club watched this go down and didn't help. Your generation is to soft and have been fucked in the head by the BS on TV. White people don't stick together like other groups of people.

Option 1. Last time I checked there were more whiteboys in NC than Vietnamese. Recruit some new friends and beat the fuckers down. They use a beer bottle, then you use one. Keep beating them until they are unconscious, grab a leg, prop it up about 12 inches on something and jump down on the little shits leg. You will hear a noticeable pop and the fucker will never forget you the rest of his life.



Option 2. Have someone video tape the next time you get your ass kicked and hope they use racial slurs directed at you. Now, with the video taped hate crime evidence press charges for racial intimidiation.

Fight fire with fire.

First, good for you. Army is a good decision with good retirement. Marines are good for cannon fodder and are good leg soldiers but Army you can make a career out of.

First as SSG D said I'd simply stop hanging around at the places these hoods hang out at. (because that's what they are if they act like this)

Second I would be hesitant to carry ANY weapon unless you KNOW how to use it. ASP batons are nice, but what happens when one of them gets ahold of it and uses it on you. Knives are effective but how does a 17 y/o explain to a cop why he was carrying a knife in the first place and why he stabbed some guy.

Not sure if it'd be worth it or how bad it is, but maybe talk to a lawyer and see if you can get a restraining order against them. It might be difficult given your circumstance, but if you could get one you could have them arrested just for coming around you.

Clay

[blue](removed racial slur per request - Paul)[/blue]

I grew up in Korea and I was 19 when I left there. It is very common and almost required to learn some sort of martial arts in asian cultures. Either you start training yourself or avoid those places.

I would suggest that you take the advice given of avoiding the places that cause trouble. Either that or start pumping some serious iron.

Attempting to arm yourself will only lead to more trouble.
#1. The majority of states that do issue a concealed carry permit specify that you may not carry a weapon in a establishment where liquor is served as its main business.

#2. Depending on your state, Asp's, knives over a certain length, brass knuckles, sappers, and other nonlethal defense measures may be illegal when carrying concealed.

#3. If you do get caught carrying a concealed firearm without a permit, in some places you just screwed yourself out of any future gun ownership rights. You will be a marked man.

#4. If you have to fight and you have to employ a knife or other type of weapon and you are still charged, you may also jeopardize your future gun ownership rights.

The situation you are in can be a tricky one because during a major fight it can be hard to sort out who was in the wrong or in the right. You may all end up with an assault and or battery charge. Unless your folks can afford a good lawyer, you are then at the mercy of the court. This could also affect your pending enlistment in the Army.

In your situation I can't see a clear cut self defense arguement in a fight because you still sought to frequent that establishment while knowing the risks.

Again...I suggest you avoid the place until things cool down. It's always better to run from a fight so you can live to fight another day.

Good Shooting
RED

Oh..and I forgot to reply...DANGIT MAN! That must have been one hell of a toenail to keep you out of the Army!!!!

If push comes to shove and a fight breaks out you can always take a shoe off and threaten them with it!!! hehe..

Sorry man..I couldn't resist!

RED

You are in a bad situation, you should not carry anything that is obviously and primarily a weapon.  The only type of weapon you might be able to carry would be something like a 6 cell Maglite or one of those walking sticks, like the ones that Cold Steel Sells. A martial arts staff also makes a very good defensive weapon. I have one that I coated one end of with neoprene and made a walking stick out of it. It makes a better weapon then a knife, a lot longer reach and does not look as dangerous plus you can use it when walking in the woods. The outdoor stores sell walking staffs just for that purpose but they cost a lot more and are not as good for defensive purposes. But if I were you I would try to find a way to avoid getting into any trouble, since regardless of who starts it you will have big problems if you are involved in a fight, and if any weapons are used by you then you will be in worse trouble.  Save the fighting for defending our Constitution.

Be real careful around the VC gangs. They are not territorial like the hispanic or black gangs and will go anywhere to committ crimes.

Your life and your friends lives aren't worth the rush you'd feel if you got lucky won a gang fight with these pukes. Chances are very good that at least one or two of them are packing. As we on AR15 all know a gun speaks for itself. And Asian gang punks are famous for two things 1. being stupid and 2. using guns to cover the fact that they have little dicks. The smart Asians are at UCLA looking forward to making $100k/year. Your enemies are the rejects of their own culture and work at K-Mart, if they work. They are violent little shits, have no future and nothing to lose. You do. Hang elsewhere. Declare victory, as they say.

Stay out of trouble and hang out at the gym/health-club instead until you go to basic.  The PT will do you more good than clubbin'.  

Before you know it, you'll PCS to your first duty station and the hometown club scene with those petty juvenile disputes will just be a distant memory.

Carry a Smiley :) A section of chain that one end hooks to your belt loop by your hip pocket nad a weight of some sort that sits in your back pocket. +It looks like a chain wallet, until you pull it out. my favorite is a master lock. A little heavy, but man does it hurt like a bitch . It's a good way to carry something for self-defense in plain sight without people thinking too much about it. You could also put a small wrench on on end. I used to do that when I was in High School and got messed with by the arab gangs. I just said the wrench was for my bike and not even the principle second guessed it was really my urban mace!! ;)
Hope that gives you some ideas.

When charlie is giving you a hard time man you just call for an airstrike and hope the napalm get them. just remember if you hear something moving in the jungle and you don't know what it is just keep shooting.

God I love the smell of Burning VC in the morning.

I am serious about the VC gangs. They especially like to do home invasions where they stay for HOURS torturing and raping the residents. The one common tactic I have heard is they send one of the VC girls to knock on the door and when it is answered they rush in from the sides. The home invasions are carefully planned out by watching the house and it's occupants for days so it is known who will be home when it is pulled off. These guys hold absolutely no value to life.

HERE! Royce Gracie will be giving a Seminar in Hillsborough, NC on October 13-14, 2001.  Maybe you can get him and his family to kick their ass!

[img]http://www.roycegracie.tv/images/pictures/bio/royce.gif[/img]

[URL]http://www.roycegracie.tv/[/URL]

Apparently you aren't a member of my generation...So let me speak for them.

They are so caught up in giving minorities a "chance" so they don't seem "racist", they will watch one of thier own go down.
They will also make evry effort to act like minority groups, because it isn't cool to be white.
This isn't a unique phenominon. It's the culture.
Just look at any given 13-20 year old white kid today...He will look like he stepped out of a Woo-Tang Clan MTV Video.
------------------------------------------------
As for the kid having to deal with the Vietnamese, gangs are brutal. I had to deal with them day to day growing up. You gotta be prepared to do what you gotta do to get by...if you don't intend to make every effort to avoid them.
------------------------------------------------
To the Moderators- You are bastard hypocrites.
If this thread was about blacks, with the diametric opposite terms and syntax used to explain negro's, this thread would've been locked or deleted long ago.
I realize that now that I bring this to your attention, it may get locked [red]AFTER THE FACT[/red].

See? It's OK to bash Asians, Hindu's or Midgets.
But say a damn thing about blacks??
YOU ARE A RACIST!!!!!!!!!

rifleer1,

Imbroglio knows what he's talking about, take heed!

You got much better future ahead of you, so don't go hanging around "club losers".

I cannot think of a single case in CA where the VC gangs pulled a home invasion and the victims were not their fellow Vietnamese. They count on the victims not going to the police, which is their custom. Furthermore, Vietnamese are known to keep a lot of cash at home, which makes them even more of a target. Vietnamese are probably the most insular people I have met. They are almost zenophobic. If you study their history a little you'll know why.

However, this does not preclude them from acts of extreme violence against others. In fact, some of you probably remember when that gang of Vietnamese kids held customers hostage at the Good Guys in Stockton, CA. A police sharpshooter made a very bad shot through the heavy glass door, which prompted the ring leader to shoot 4 or 5 customers in the back as they lay tied up on the floor. I think one gang member survived after the swat team finally took action.

Anyway, these guys can be very violent. And sometimes they act like they could care less if they live or die. So, with that in mind, I would simply avoid the scumbags as best I could, but be prepared because anything can happen with these guys.

Nowaday there are gangs everywhere. Mexicans, Spanish, Black, white you named it.  Just stay away from their hang out (territory thing). Avoid them and live long and prosper. Don't try to arm yourself because they too are armed.

Welll...
If you used a USGI sling to make a whipit gun-type configuration for a SBR 9mm AR15 with telestock under your trench coat, you'd win the fight hands down.  Of course, the problem is trying to have a good time at the club while policing your brass and trying to avoid touching the smoking barrel.

Kharn

Avoiding the confrontation is winning the fight. Doesn't feel very John Wayne-ish, but you get to live, be free and fight another day and is smarter than fighting in groups.

One overlooked improvised weapon you have with you is your belt. Get a heavy logo type buckle. You always have it with you, and it gives you some stand off distance if you are swinging it around.

To reiterate:

[size=6]Don't go there![/size=6]

Stay home and play your Sega.

You're too young to hang out at bars anyway. Go hang out at a gym, lift weigths, find a martial arts dojo and learn how to fight. Asian gangs are some of the most vicious ones out there, and as most gang-bangers, they have nothing to lose as they are already the losers of society. Nothing good will come of it, stay away from them. You and your friends should play alot of baseball or softball, at least that way if they come after you guys, you'll have baseball bats, and a valid reason for having them with you.

Ditto.

Whats the ancient Chinese proverb?? Lie down with dogs, rise up with fleas.

Good advice. And what SSgtD, Death_By_AR, and Ranger1Bob said, too.
Get your ass, and your head, into shape for next year. When you get out of boot, you'll have a lot less in common with the guys you hang out with now, anyway.

Man.  I bet your dissapointed.  You come here for advice on what to do and all's you get is "Run away".  Reminds me of the Monty Python scene, where they all go "Run away, Run away".  Jeez, don't be a coward.  Screw these guys where it counts.  Become an urban guerilla man.  These guys only think they are tough because they are in numbers.  Pick one out to follow and watch him for about a week to learn his habits.  find a time when he's alone, either in his house or walking down a lonely street.  Put your black ski mask on and wear gloves (don't leave any sperm behind, the cops are good at finding that) and follow either of these situations:

House:  Make sure you know the exit/entrances.  be quiet and enter the house without the mask and weapon visible. Soon as  you shut the door, get the mask on asap and sneak around until you find the stupid bastard whacking it to some asain porno.  Begin to totally beat the living crap outta him like they did in Casino with the baseball bats.  Don't give him any head shots because you want him to remember this.  Don't talk either, he's bound to remember your voice.   then, for good measure, break some of his bones, like fingers and if you have time, make a laceration on the facial area that is deep enough to scar so he'll always remember what went down.  Then, leave and make sure no one sees you exit.  Pull this off and continue on to the next guy in the group.   (disclaimer: entering someone elses home can get you killed.  But you only live once, might as well die now.)

Street:  Ok, make sure no one can hear him scream.  This is important because the little bastard could get the Police beating down you instead.  Come up from behind and bash as hard as you can the side of his kneecap.  That'll put him down.  that's all you need to do.  just run along now junior.  

I prefer the street one as it's simple.  Wanna do psyops and make these jokers scared?  throw bricks in their windows at night, hammer a cross into the ground and light it on fire.  Use your imagination.  They have cars?   Key it.  get those little metal stars they use to stop chases that pop tires and stick it under their tires.  plant a half pound of weed in their cars if they leave the window down enough and call the cops.  (usually just a big waste of weed if YOUR finger prints are on the sack.)
Listen, as long as they never know it's you, they can never get revenge.  

[):)]
NSF

A quote from Connery in the movie the Untouchables.
They put one of yours in the Hospital, you put one of his in the morgue.  Problem solved

My advice: do whatever you can to stay the hell away from these guys. I grew up in a Vietnamese neighborhood. Vietnamese gangbangers are tough, ferocious, vicious, and really dangerous to cross. They cut other gangbangers to confetti. They cut people who think they're big badasses into confetti. They scare the crap out of cops. Don't mess with them, and especially do not piss them off. Some gangs you can mess with and get away with it, but never Vietnamese gangs.

Ultimately your best weapon is diplomacy. Give these guys the respect you'd give to a rattlesnake. Learn how to talk your way out of trouble. If they get confrontational, keep your cool. Ask them what you can do for them. If they want to pick a fight, do your best not to be provoked.

Failing that, a billy club's your best bet, IMO. Just watch it. Carrying a concealed weapon buys you serious time.

A gun is worse than useless against these guys.

Two legal rules on deadly force:

If you can get yourself and your frien out without killing someone, you cannot use deadly force.

If they enter your home and are armed, you can blow their asses away.

Now for the simple facts. 20 VC Gangbanger to 1 Armed White Guy = 1 or More Dead VC and 1 or more Dead White Guys. SImply put, you cannot drop 'em all before one of 'em drops you. If you must go there. Does NC allow Rifles for those under 18 ? Take at least one guy for every two of theirs and take damn good weapons. Every one of you should be armed with an AR-15 with 2-40 Rounders in a Jungle Config.

Rule #1: Avoid the place if possible
Rule #2: If possible, avoid contact with the VC.
Rule #3: Do not pull a weapon unless you are in imminate fear of life. Not only is this illegal, but a weapon only begets a weapon.
Rule #4: Try to limit your combat to as few people as possible. You don't want to take on 5 guys. No matter what you see on TV, This will surely get you killed.
Rule #5: If all else fails spray 'em fulla lead.

Oh yeah, I forgot this:

Wear a bullet proof vest or body armor. Use a grade higher than what you probably need. If possible splurge for the highest grade of Body Armor available. Also, have your friends get body armor also. Because in short, if you can't kill 'em and they can't kill you, you will be loosing a few friends. Heroics will get you and your friends killed. A vest might buy a little time if one of 'em pull a weapon. Possibly enough to drop the VC.

I hope you read and understand this!

The feds are adhering to a UN quota-

to accept immigrants  into this country
and to assi,iliate them into our Popoulation,

Screw them all !@!

If you are going to be a tuff guy, then you have to know your enemy. Read about how they would eviserate those that helped the US forces while they made others watch. They will blend in where ever they are at in a vietnamese neighborhood. they shake down the locals, and have the majority so afraid that if they witnessed your execution, no one when questioned would have seen a thing.

If you are bound and determined to face them down, then you had better be prepared to use whatever is at hand, and know how to use it in a deadly manner. They will never take you on one on one, it will always be a group, and they have access to the weapons needed to cut you into little pieces, or blow your brains out. You say the cops do nothing, where are the witnesses in that community that will appear and testify against them.

At 17 you are not prepared to take on a group that has been hardened with time. Get the training that you need, and if you must fight someone elses battle, then never be seen, but leave the results as a reminder of what can and will happen. Examine yourself and determine if you can take more than one life, for in this post, you will start a war that will keep going for a long time if they find out who you are.

get friends, take one of two prisoner. when the second returns with backup have many friends with bats kick the hell out of them. short simple pitched battle. they will never get cops so don't have to exlain. they probably won't give up though. if you don't killem it will only piss them off. so don't expect to end problems in one fight. sounds like small scale war huh

I guess it all depends on what kind of future you want.  Here in Cali, being caught with pretty much anything that can be used as a weapon is a felony ie. club, knife, chain, brass knucks, etc.  If you want that on your rap sheet then so be it.  Pepper spray is a good choice for self defense, but then again, your up against 20 guys, and that might just piss them off.  I say try to avoid them.  

Damn NSF Jojo, I'm sure glad I'm not on your bad side; sh*t I'd never sleep at night if I was.

To re-re-reiterate; your best bet is to completely avoid them.  I'm no bad-ass dude, but I've known some pretty big, mean, good-fighting, smart military guys (emphasis here on smart) and they would almost always would run from such a fight.  In short, don't go there.  Find somewhere else to go.  Living and surviving ain't a cowardly thing to do.  Running shoes are you best weapon.  Live long and prosper.