Some illegal aliens are "otherwise lawful citizens"

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Some illegal aliens are "otherwise lawful citizens" (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/8/2005 11:55:06 PM EDT

Sen. Kennedy: "One is the -- which we talked about -- the state and local law enforcement of immigration laws. You’re familiar with this. In 2002 the Department of Justice reversed long-standing policies -- supported the inherent authority of states to enforce federal immigration laws, and this -- that reversal was based on an Office of Legal Counsel opinion that’s not been made public. And I’ve asked for a copy of the opinions; so have others of the Congress; interested parties have asked for it too. The refusal to -- it’s been the subject of a lawsuit. The department’s response failed to provide the opinion but simply offered its conclusion without any discussion.

I have difficulty finding a good reason why the department continues to keep the opinion and its legal analysis secret, especially since it reverses a long-standing policy that scores of police chiefs, police departments around the country, including many in your home state of Texas, have denounced the idea of involving state and local police in federal immigration enforcement. Last month the International Association of Chiefs of Police issued a report expressing concern. They and others believe it will destroy the remarkable progress they’ve made with community policing in which police have worked closely with the public, including immigrant communities, and developed productive bonds of trust -- concerns raised by law enforcement shared by many conservative and security experts. I can’t believe I’m quoting Grover Norquist -- Bob Barr, the Heritage Foundation all say this could be an unmanageable burden on the law enforcement officials."

So could you tell us why -- quickly as you could -- the secrecy, and can you tell us whether you’d support them releasing the OLC opinion on the authority to --"

MR. GONZALES: "Senator, thank you for that question. You and I did talk about that in your office. This matter is in litigation, as you indicated; there is FOIA litigation about the release of the memo. The conclusions are known. It’s the analysis, the deliberations that went into the opinion that I think the department is seeking to protect.

Let me just emphasize, though, or try to provide reassurance about this.

There is no requirement, of course, upon state and locals to enforce federal immigration laws. This is purely voluntary. In fact, of course, some states have prohibitions; they couldn’t do it even if they wanted to. In some cases the department, as I understand it, has entered into with state or local departments, in terms of memorandums of understanding in order to enforce this. We’re certainly -- I certainly am sensitive to the notion that some local law enforcement people don’t want to exercise this authority. Well, we’re not saying that they have to. But if they want to and they can assist in fighting the war on terror, that’s what this opinion allows us to do.

Personally, I would worry about a policy that permits someone, a local law enforcement official, to use this authority somehow as a club to harass -- they might be unlawful aliens, but otherwise lawful citizens. That would be troubling. That would be troubling to the president who, as a governor of a -- former governor of a border state understands and appreciates the roles that immigrants and undocumented aliens play in our society.

But it is in litigation, and it would probably be better if I didn’t speak more about that."

We're fucked.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:00:50 AM EDT

[#1]

How about changing this to "they might be child-raping pedophiles, but otherwise are lawful citizens". Damn Kennedy is an idiot.

"understands and appreciates the roles that rapists and child molesters play in our society."

How can ANYONE be this stupid? My dog is smarter than this guy.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:03:55 AM EDT

[#2]

"They commited a felony within seconds of coming to this country, of course we can expect them to otherwise be outstanding citizens!"

Yea, if I comited a felony the second I turned 18 they would treat me and my rights a little different than these illegals.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:17:23 AM EDT

[#3]

What an asshat. We are indeed doomed.

Yeah. I understand the role that criminals play in our society too.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:35:15 AM EDT

[#4]

Ted Kennedy REALLY needs to shut the fuck up. Did you see the clip of him at the Nomination hearing for Gonzalez - Ted Kennedy was moralizing about DROWNING PEOPLE of all f'in things. Kopeckney is spinning in her grave.

Posted: 1/9/2005 3:38:51 AM EDT

[#5]

Many murders were "otherwise lawful citizens" before committing THEIR crime. What's the point?

-Troy

Posted: 1/9/2005 3:49:59 AM EDT

[#6]

Yea me and my wife would be otherwise lawful citizens if I snuck her up here. But we respect the law and go thru the mind numbing process of getting a lawful visa for her. Its a matter of respect for the law, and that is in short supply these days. Its all the dam hippys fault. Started with Free love and all that crap and now look at us...........

Posted: 1/9/2005 4:14:15 AM EDT

[#7]

Gonzales is saying exactly what Bush wants him to say. W is in a huge love affair with the wet backs and I have no idea why.

Bush, not Gonzales or Kennedy is the problem here (It is really hard to believe I said that) but the POTUS is in the lead and that is where he is taking us.

Posted: 1/9/2005 4:18:58 AM EDT

[#8]

Pisses me off after all the trouble I went through.

Posted: 1/9/2005 4:38:02 AM EDT

[#9]

......shaking my head in disgust.

Posted: 1/9/2005 4:54:11 AM EDT

[#10]

I wonder... can this be used as a precident when someone gets busted with a DIAS???

Judge: Mr. Arfcommer, how do you plead to the charges of having an unregisterd DIAS?

Mr. Arfcommer: You Honor, I plead that I am an otherwise lawfull citizen and should be released back into society immediately. Possibly with some housing and medical assistance, because I spend so much money on ammo, sir.

<--- somebody wake me up!

Posted: 1/9/2005 5:02:56 AM EDT

[#11]

There is only one legal way into this country.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=303314

Posted: 1/9/2005 5:10:51 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Damn Kennedy is an idiot.

Gonzalez, not Kennedy, is the one that made the idiotic statement about police using immigration laws as a club to oppress the poor illegals.

We are fucked if Gonzalez is confirmed as AG.

Posted: 1/9/2005 5:22:12 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Gonzales is saying exactly what Bush wants him to say. W is in a huge love affair with the wet backs and I have no idea why.

For the same reason he supported tariffs on imported steel, a Medicare prescription drug benefit, and pouring more money down the rathole of pubic educashun -- he is a vote whore, and is trying to buy the votes of illegal aliens and their Hispanic fellow-travelers.

Posted: 1/9/2005 6:36:13 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Gonzalez, not Kennedy, is the one that made the idiotic statement about police using immigration laws as a club to oppress the poor illegals.

We are fucked if Gonzalez is confirmed as AG.

Totally agree, but Crock is exactly right; he's just towing the party line established by GWB. IMO, this is the single biggest problem with Bush - illegal immigration. Not that Kerry would have been any different; he shared the exact same stance (when he took one).

-Troy

Posted: 1/9/2005 6:39:48 AM EDT

[#15]

Politics is what is ruining this country. This is one area where GW and I part company.

Posted: 1/9/2005 6:45:55 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Pisses me off after all the trouble I went through.

+1

No kidding. The INS must hire the people who are TOO surly to be flight attendants on American Airlines.

Posted: 1/9/2005 6:56:31 AM EDT

[#17]

Unless they're willing to line up and come through the line like legal residents how do we weed out the ones bringing in Ebola, Typhoid and Small Pox from normal healthy ones? How do we block the Al Quadia terrorist from sauntering over the boarder with 100 Kg of nuclear waste along with the normal guys bringing in 100 Kg of Columbia's finest smoke or blow?

Nothing is going to close the southern border until one of those events happens. Either someone is going to bring a highly contagious infection or nuclear/biological/chemical weapon over the border and have to kill several hundred thousand Americans or Californians. Both sides of congress will do zero to enforce the protection of the national border and the president is a willing partner with Mexico's president Fox.

Posted: 1/9/2005 7:53:25 AM EDT

[#18]

I still think the resembelence is striking.

Posted: 1/9/2005 7:59:22 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
What an asshat. We are indeed doomed.

Yeah. I understand the role that criminals play in our society too.

Hey, quit bitchin'!

Them LEOs gotta eat, too!

Posted: 1/9/2005 8:05:22 AM EDT

[#20]

Americans or Californians.

Posted: 1/9/2005 8:12:05 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
We're fucked.

Yep.

Posted: 1/9/2005 8:22:23 AM EDT

[#22]

Oh it sucks to be an American sometimes, I still don't have a better option yet.

Posted: 1/9/2005 8:23:11 AM EDT

[#23]

Some child molestors are "otherwise lawful citizens.

Some serial killers are "otherwise lawful citizens.

Some rapists are "otherwise lawful citizens.

In addition Kennedy himself is now in violation...

"appreciates the roles that immigrants and undocumented aliens play in our society."

10 New Laws For 2005...

5. Any person who uses the term "undocumented alien" shall be immediately deported to Mexico despite their nation of origin. Then you will have a clear understanding of what a "illegal alien" is and you will know why it is wrong. If you want back into the country you will have to get in line behind about 10,000 Mexicans who are attempting to lawfully enter the United States, they will receive priority.

Posted: 1/9/2005 8:44:40 AM EDT

[#24]

That the soon-to-be US Attorney General refers to illegal aliens as ANY kind of "citizen" is truly astounding.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:22:25 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
That the soon-to-be US Attorney General refers to illegal aliens as ANY kind of "citizen" is truly astounding.

As a Latino of Mexican decent he may have a hard time looking at other Mexicans, even those who are destroying the southwest, as bad guys.

Posted: 1/9/2005 12:24:46 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
That the soon-to-be US Attorney General refers to illegal aliens as ANY kind of "citizen" is truly astounding.

As a Latino of Mexican decent he may have a hard time looking at other Mexicans, even those who are destroying the southwest, as bad guys.

Shouldn't the US Attorney General know what requirements for citizenship?

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:57:17 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
That the soon-to-be US Attorney General refers to illegal aliens as ANY kind of "citizen" is truly astounding.

As a Latino of Mexican decent he may have a hard time looking at other Mexicans, even those who are destroying the southwest, as bad guys.

Then he's a blinded rabid racist! I'm White, and see lots of White criminals!

Posted: 1/10/2005 8:15:50 AM EDT

[#28]

Posted: 1/10/2005 8:53:24 AM EDT

[#29]

I'm an "otherwise lawful citizen" when I become a batshit insane terrorist and bomb a nursery school. Illegal aliens are neither lawful nor citizens. Hmm...

Posted: 1/10/2005 2:36:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
As a Latino of Mexican decent he may have a hard time looking at other Mexicans, even those who are destroying the southwest, as bad guys.

I agree. And I'm technically a Latino of Mexican decent (among other things). My father's parents immigrated to the US legally during the Depression years. I fully support closing the border to illegal immigration. Heck, I'll go further. I'd additionally support a 5-10 year moratorium on LEGAL immigration, with the only exceptions being nuclear family members who are sponsored by current citizens. By allowing FAR too many immigrants in to the country in such a short period of time, we've discouraged assimilation into the US culture, which is NOT what we want or need.

-Troy

Posted: 1/10/2005 5:49:12 PM EDT

[#31]

Has anyone been watching the confirmation hearings? I have seen some of them. he dodged the questions when asked about the torture memo, then kept stressing he has lived his entire life believing in the rule of law. Apparently not immigration law though.

Posted: 1/10/2005 5:58:49 PM EDT

[#32]

Well I speed and download movies and music. Other than that I'm pretty lawful.

Some people conceal carry illegally but other than that they are lawful.

I dont see what the big deal is, some laws are bullshit. Its up to you to decide which you will follow.

Posted: 1/10/2005 6:13:02 PM EDT

[#33]

They might be illegal alians but at least they are not kennedys. IE rapists, killers, drunks, lushes,and socialists.

Posted: 1/10/2005 6:25:50 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Well I speed and download movies and music. Other than that I'm pretty lawful.

Some people conceal carry illegally but other than that they are lawful.

I dont see what the big deal is, some laws are bullshit. Its up to you to decide which you will follow.

Till you are caught...

Bob

Posted: 1/10/2005 6:48:50 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Well I speed and download movies and music. Other than that I'm pretty lawful.

Some people conceal carry illegally but other than that they are lawful.

I dont see what the big deal is, some laws are bullshit. Its up to you to decide which you will follow.

Well apparently the soon-to-be US Attorney General thinks our immigration laws and securing our national borders in a time of war are bullshit.

You don't see that as being a "big deal"???

Posted: 1/10/2005 6:57:27 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Till you are caught...

Where is the rest of your sentance?

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:05:33 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Well apparently the soon-to-be US Attorney General thinks our immigration laws and securing our national borders in a time of war are bullshit.

You don't see that as being a "big deal"???

I think some of our immigration laws are bullshit. We let in plenty of people from Africa, the Middle East, India, and China. People who's cultures and beliefs are completely different than our own, yet we make it so much more difficult for people from our own neighboring countries to come into the US legally.

Remember the September 11 attacks were committed by people who came into the us legally. They were not Mexicans who crossed the border illegally.

I think it would be better if the US worked to make it easier for people to legally move thoughout the US, Mexico, and Canada, but made it alot harder for people from other continents to get into any of our countries.

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:09:49 PM EDT

[#38]

He just called them CITIZENS , something that many immigrants work hard for YEARS to become

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:12:37 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
He just called them CITIZENS , something that many immigrants work hard for YEARS to become

Just about everyone is a citizen of someplace unless you are one of those kind of guys who choose to have no citizenship anywhere.

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:13:15 PM EDT

[#40]

Close the borders, bury some mines, put up the razor wire, and mount a heavy machine gun every one hundred yards and a sniper every fifty yards. Add searchlights and infra-red scanners. Anything that approaches within 500 feet of the border without identifying itself dies, period.

On the coast, just bomb the fuck out of anything seen leaving Cuba and headed toward the coast without prior permission. They'll get the idea.

I think they'll be busy trying to find new ways into the country and that alone will stem the tide somewhat.

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:16:44 PM EDT

[#41]

I expect we are doomed, sooner or later its going to happen, Im starting to hope it just hurries up.

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:30:03 PM EDT

[#42]

one of the respondants to this thread used the term "W** B**** "....but we have a whole FIRESTORM over the use of a word that NO ONE KNEW WTF it meant except for a few dozen of us a few weeks ago!

Jumping CHRIST!!!!!!

D.
AZEX

Posted: 1/10/2005 7:44:11 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
How about changing this to "they might be child-raping pedophiles, but otherwise are lawful citizens". Damn Kennedy is an idiot.

"understands and appreciates the roles that rapists and child molesters play in our society."

How can ANYONE be this stupid? My dog is smarter than this guy.

That's not the esteemed limousine liberal/socialist/communist senior Senator from the great state of confusion call mASSachusetts talking there, THAT'S THE "CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN" that George "dopeyfuck" Bush is foisting on the American people.

Nice, huh?

Posted: 1/10/2005 10:57:52 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Remember the September 11 attacks were committed by people who came into the us legally. .

False, they commited perjury on their Visa, which they then overstayed, making them illegals. They may not have snuck in on foot under the cover of darkness, but they were illegals none the less.

Posted: 1/11/2005 6:33:42 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Remember the September 11 attacks were committed by people who came into the us legally. .

False, they commited perjury on their Visa, which they then overstayed, making them illegals. They may not have snuck in on foot under the cover of darkness, but they were illegals none the less.

Exactly, people who come in on a tourist visa, and then stay, or who come in on a student visa and then don't go to school, or stay - are no different from people who cross the southern border on foot, or by swimming a river, or by going through a tunnel.

Those are just different ways for illegals to get into the country.

Posted: 1/11/2005 8:31:01 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
"They commited a felony within seconds of coming to this country, of course we can expect them to otherwise be outstanding citizens!"

Yea, if I comited a felony the second I turned 18 they would treat me and my rights a little different than these illegals.

I am completely against illegal immigration, and gun control.

but being a devils advocate here, how is this different from when or if the latest fuzzy law on guns comes down? How many people here have committed felony gun crimes? In particular, i have a friend that put together a pre ban upper on a post ban lower. He didn't otherwise go out and start murdering people, or all of a sudden become otherwise a lawbreaker.

thoughts?

Posted: 1/11/2005 4:29:05 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"They commited a felony within seconds of coming to this country, of course we can expect them to otherwise be outstanding citizens!"

Yea, if I comited a felony the second I turned 18 they would treat me and my rights a little different than these illegals.

I am completely against illegal immigration, and gun control.

but being a devils advocate here, how is this different from when or if the latest fuzzy law on guns comes down? How many people here have committed felony gun crimes? In particular, i have a friend that put together a pre ban upper on a post ban lower. He didn't otherwise go out and start murdering people, or all of a sudden become otherwise a lawbreaker.

thoughts?

\
comments from the evening crew?

Posted: 1/11/2005 5:22:51 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"They commited a felony within seconds of coming to this country, of course we can expect them to otherwise be outstanding citizens!"

Yea, if I comited a felony the second I turned 18 they would treat me and my rights a little different than these illegals.

I am completely against illegal immigration, and gun control.

but being a devils advocate here, how is this different from when or if the latest fuzzy law on guns comes down?

It's invading another country.

Posted: 1/12/2005 10:18:52 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"They commited a felony within seconds of coming to this country, of course we can expect them to otherwise be outstanding citizens!"

Yea, if I comited a felony the second I turned 18 they would treat me and my rights a little different than these illegals.

I am completely against illegal immigration, and gun control.

but being a devils advocate here, how is this different from when or if the latest fuzzy law on guns comes down?

It's invading another country.

and how is that so much worse than some guy with a gun traversing a "gun free zone" Is the same level of law being broken? or is "invading" another country the highest crime in the land?

Posted: 1/12/2005 11:02:26 AM EDT

[#50]

Dan, I am trying real hard here to not start cussing and throwing shit. I don't know about the financial status of your state, but mine is being sucked dry by the little brown horde.. And every day I have to here this BULLSHIT about them taking the less paying jobs that WHIT people don't want. BULLSHIT, you pay me 30-40,000 a year in CASH to do lawns or construction and see how much of a loyal employee I am. Not paying any deductions makes a huge difference. Hospitals are closing, school districts are collapsing, Law enforcement has gone out the fucking window. I am sitting here wondering how hard the IRS is going to fuck me this year and some little brown boy is going to Best buy today to buy his new plasma TV. Yes that shit pisses me off. And to all of the apologists and Pc people around here, If you think this is a BAD rant, you ought to have seen what I actually wanted to put down. But once again on site about guns, we have to be nice to fucking theives.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Some illegal aliens are "otherwise lawful citizens" (Page 1 of 2)

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